TaylorC 0 #26 November 16, 2009 Quote Quote Quote hail fun nazi fuhrer Please allow the Nazis to own their reputation and stop diluting what they did by spreading their name around to others. The Nazis of WW II Germany were THE Nazis and no one else deserves to be lumped in with them. It's fucking disgusting! No one else should ever be called one. Unless they were. Who are you? The historical reference Nazi? LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #27 November 16, 2009 QuoteAnd if he'd freaked, and started grabbing handles I'm pretty sure you were riding that same horse over in the other thread about this same jump, but it's not the right horse. For starters, I have yet to meet the TI who shows his students the location of, and explains the purpose for the handles. As such, the student knows of no connection between an emergency situation, and those things mounted on the TI's harness. A student is just as likely to reach down and grab the TI's nutsack as they are to grab the handles. None of that is mentioning that fact that the handles would be very difficult for a student to reach, being just above and outboard of the students shoulders. It's not a natural place to reach, and even if you could, having the strength to pull them from that angle is doubtful. This is why experienced jumpers who act as a tandem pax during certification dives are given extensions to the handles on their own harness so they could work them if need be. Of course, again, if you keep in mind that the student doesn't know that those handles and emergencies are related, the location is moot. In terms of the actual jump, it might have been borderline inappropriate for a TI. Might. It was, however, funny as shit when the TO told him to kick his legs under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairymango 0 #28 November 16, 2009 stop it you cant mention Nazi's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #29 November 16, 2009 QuoteNone of that is mentioning that fact that the handles would be very difficult for a student to reach, being just above and outboard of the students shoulders. It's not a natural place to reach, and even if you could, having the strength to pull them from that angle is doubtful. Though the footage was funny as hell IMO, it should be mentioned that in the past a student reaching back (for the control toggles?) actually DID grab and pull the cutaway handle. Both perished, since the laterals had already been disconnected at that point in the jump... For the rest, I agree that it is an unlikely place for the student to grab. But if he does, he most certainly CAN pull it out. (In fact it was a female student in Kapowsin if I remember correctly...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #30 November 16, 2009 QuoteWho are you? The historical reference Nazi? Not sure what that means. Anyone half awake knows what happened. The scars of that time are still here. So I don't need to be a historical reference anything to assume others are not ignorant of that time and its horrors, but I could be wrong when "others'" are too self involved to recognize there was a time before their own. My point, though, is simply that by using the term 'Nazi' to describe anyone who gives someone else a hard time, corrects a behavior, asks for simple consideration, or even makes some demands, does a lot of harm to the efforts by those who lived in that time to prevent it from happening again. Here's an example of one such use. Years ago I had a cd player on at the DZ. A visiting organizer didn't care for the music at the moment and went and turned it off, putting on the radio instead. I reminded her that it wasn't her cd, her player or her dropzone and that a simple considerate request would do more than taking matters into her own hands, that maybe a more democratic approach would be better, that perhaps asking the owner first, or respecting the fact that she was a guest, or waiting her turn... I was polite about it and made my points in a courteous manner. But she smirked at me, said nothing to me directly and went on to her friend and called me a radio Nazi. But the Nazis, gassed innocent people, tortured babies, made human experiments on living people and the list of horrors goes on. By using the term as loosely as this we risk taking those horrors away from the rightful owners and we dilute the pain and fright and sacrifices made. One problem is that those who use the term likely did not live that time and they are not at all sensitive to the emotions connected with it. They are also often too self centered to be able to understand any one else's feelings. But what about their own time? Today we have replaced our fears of Nazis or Communists with a new fear of terrorists so that today one is chastised for asserting that perhaps the World Trade Center attackers were not terrorists; that they were in retaliation for the actions of the US; that the cops and fire fighters were not heroes, just guys and women doing their job, a job they were trained for and knew well enough what they were going into; that a true hero is someone who does what they are NOT prepared for and do so anyway. If I attempt to assert any of that then those who are alive today could well take exception to such a view. It's all stil present and raw. But how would those same people feel 60, 70 years from now when a whole generation decides that the USA deserved what it got and sees the alleged terrorist as brave fighters for their cause? Want to bet someone gets angered at that? What if at that time people call anyone who makes any demand, slight or great, a terrorist? Can you imagine the child or spouse of a victim of 9/11 simply agreeing? Can you imagine the anger at the diminishing of what a real terrorist is? Can you imagine that they would be angered at the fact that people have indeed forgotten? So, please, save the Nazi term for those who were members of the Nazi party. No one deserves to be lumped in with them unless they were actually one of them. I'm not a Nazi anything. I'm just a guy who senses the wrong of insensitivity to those who remember, were affected or know those who were. Concentration camp survivors are still here, today. If you care enough about anything beyond your own cloistered life, seek one out - they are not hidden - and ask them directly how they would feel if you called the cranky child making unsound demands, the person with a different view making a request that you temper your language, the cop who doesn't want to hear your take on how fast you were going or anyone you simply disagree with a Nazi. I don't doubt if you ask someone with a number tattooed on their wrist if it's ok to toss that word around that they would object, emotionally and emphatically. And it's fine to challenge me on this. I was born in 1952 so I did not live it. But just ask someone who did. Be brave and be willing to be humbled and shamed. It's ok. personal growth can be painful but it can be fruitful too. Get some history before making more or diluting what was. I'd also wager that most people who see no problem with calling someone a Nazi do not actually know or associate with any Jews. Not closely, anyway, not counted among one's friends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaylorC 0 #31 November 16, 2009 take a chill pill man... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #32 November 16, 2009 My referring to you as the historical reference Nazi was a joke. However it was not made in blissful ignorance to the past. your assumptions about me, particularly the bit about not knowing any Jews, however indicate a very narrow view of history. Gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled, Afro-Europeans, even mainstream Poles were just as dead as the Jews in the holocaust. Regardless of the holocaust deaths, the Nazi party is better known for being the finest example of a totalitarian idiology; deviation from it was more actively castigated on the micro level than any before. This is what is being referred to when people talk about being a fun Nazi or a jump Nazi (hi George If you don't like it, too fucking bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tumbler 0 #33 November 16, 2009 All I can say is.. "No soup for you!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #34 November 16, 2009 In fairness to the DZ, they told them to take a hike until they offered them a LOAD of cash. Did anyone see the million dollar basketball shot prank. The guy was fair game.Fake ripcord for the win. I don't think he held onto it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #35 November 17, 2009 I made no personal assumptions about you directly. My comment about likely not knowing any Jews was broad, general, and was never stated as an absolute. Rather, I wondered aloud that many who use the term Nazi might not actually have a personal relationship with any Jews. I find it hard to go to Passover with my Jewish friends one day and then to feel free to call someone a Nazi over a trivial event the next day. Maybe that's just me. My whole post above was only my making a suggestion, a request, and to attempt to provide some context and support for my request. If I failed in that then I am at least comfortable that I tried. I find the use of 'Nazi' an offensive practice and I am one who speaks up - damn the dissenting opinions of those who would rather not deal with it. I also am used to taking flack for being able to carry on a discussion that dares stretch beyond single paragraphs and monosyllabic language. It's a lonely world but so be it. I did not mean to imply that Jews were the only ones to suffer. But certainly, historically, they are the one who are understood to be the larger target - or at least most noted. It was easy - too easy - for me to mention them only. I apologize for the limited perspective. I did not, however, get nasty or personal. Saying that if I don't like it it's too fucking bad is making it personal. No call for that. I prefer a dialogue over a slam fest. Apparently I'm in the wrong place for such a consideration. I should check my road map before venturing out on a solo trip next time. But I can take a joke. Your wasn't really funny. Try harder. (The person who said no soup for me would have lost me on that because I have not watched TV in over 20 years, But coincidentally, I was in NYC the other day at my mother-in-law's place and I turned on the TV for some sort of diversion and Seinfeld was on, that episode too. I have only seen about two or three episodes of Seinfeld and that was not one of them until Friday night. I'd heard of the episode but didn't really know what it was about. So now I know. And to bring it up here was funny, and now I actually get the joke.) Also, I need to apologize for getting off topic. This isn't the right forum. Carry on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairymango 0 #36 November 18, 2009 I'm impressed that you seem to have read his whole post. Just looking at the size of it made my eyes start to bleed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #37 November 18, 2009 Quote stop it you cant mention Nazi's. You are such a nazi nazi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lpdwntnd 0 #38 November 19, 2009 I will say that was a good prank after the fake basketball shot. But at the same time could of been very bad. He could of started freaking and set them both off on a bad spin, back, any. I'm going to guess this was set up and planned. As all of them have looked. But who knows. Looked fake to me. Have you ever seen a student pull and then a second later look at the ripcord?Stop looking at me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #39 November 19, 2009 Quote I will say that was a good prank after the fake basketball shot. But at the same time could of been very bad. He could of started freaking and set them both off on a bad spin, back, any. I'm going to guess this was set up and planned. As all of them have looked. But who knows. Looked fake to me. Have you ever seen a student pull and then a second later look at the ripcord? When they don't have a canopy to look at it probably increases the chances they'll look at the rip cord. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #40 November 19, 2009 Quote Have you ever seen a student pull and then a second later look at the ripcord? I don't know. I'm usually looking at the back of their head when I've been the TI. I can't tell what they are looking at. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #41 November 23, 2009 My second tandem was a training jump before my AFF (I was in Hawaii and didnt want to start AFF until I got back to the mainland). I pulled the ripcord on that jump. Turns out a packer misrouted the ripcord and nothing happened when I pulled - the instructor pulled the opposite side ripcord when we got no opening shock, but in that small amount of time I did look to see that I had the ripcord in my hand. So yes, I buy that he looked at the ripcord in his hand. Dont think it was faked at all. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #42 November 23, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law This is a phenomenon as old as the internet itself. Anyway, I fail to find the video funny. If they are gonna make tasteless, unsafe practical jokes, at least make them funny. But hey, I'm from Europe. Different culture.Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #43 November 23, 2009 Fellas, Relax, I am the S&TA at this DZ. All I can say is that the jump was most definatley done under safe conditions and that no BSR's were violated. I know the TI and he is very capable and in no way put any student at harm or risk. Due to privacy issues that is all I can say, but I assure you there may be more to the story. Thanks, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #44 November 24, 2009 Quote Fellas, Relax, I am the S&TA at this DZ. All I can say is that the jump was most definitely done under safe conditions and that no BSR's were violated. I know the TI and he is very capable and in no way put any student at harm or risk. Due to privacy issues that is all I can say, but I assure you there may be more to the story. Thanks, That's just great...what are we supposed to do with all the firewood gathered for the 'Burning at the Stake'? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #45 November 24, 2009 Quote Quote Fellas, Relax, I am the S&TA at this DZ. All I can say is that the jump was most definitely done under safe conditions and that no BSR's were violated. I know the TI and he is very capable and in no way put any student at harm or risk. Due to privacy issues that is all I can say, but I assure you there may be more to the story. Thanks, That's just great...what are we supposed to do with all the firewood gathered for the 'Burning at the Stake'? Burn the fucker at the stake for acting unprofessionally during a jump, while hiding behind the letter of the BSRs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #46 November 25, 2009 Andy, I see your point and could possibly agree with you given the facts of JUST the video. Like I said he did not act unprofessional, and did not hide behind the BSR's. Rich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #47 November 25, 2009 Well, it's certainly true that the BSR's don't give a mention to terrorizing the shit out of anyone. So I guess that makes it ok. Maybe it's me but I couldn't see how the passenger was enjoying the ride. From here it looked like he was genuinely scared. And being an innocent, how could he imagine otherwise, especially as we know that even properly handled beginning skydivers experience real fear? Having a fucking nut job TI pull this shit doesn't do much to allay those fears. If I were the DZO I'd have his sorry ass in a sling. If I were the S&TA (and I was at my DZ) I would seriously look into getting his rating tossed. I have no idea now if that's possible or plausible but I'd give it a go. Assuring that your passenger is scared shitless doesn't fall under the "professional" category. It's more like the asshole category. Anyone who takes professionalism seriously would never consider this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #48 November 25, 2009 Quote Well, it's certainly true that the BSR's don't give a mention to terrorizing the shit out of anyone. So I guess that makes it ok. Maybe it's me but I couldn't see how the passenger was enjoying the ride. From here it looked like he was genuinely scared. And being an innocent, how could he imagine otherwise, especially as we know that even properly handled beginning skydivers experience real fear? Having a fucking nut job TI pull this shit doesn't do much to allay those fears. If I were the DZO I'd have his sorry ass in a sling. If I were the S&TA (and I was at my DZ) I would seriously look into getting his rating tossed. I have no idea now if that's possible or plausible but I'd give it a go. Assuring that your passenger is scared shitless doesn't fall under the "professional" category. It's more like the asshole category. Anyone who takes professionalism seriously would never consider this. Then again, as has been implied several times, and which I've believed from the outset...everybody was in on the production of this 'prank' and the commercially successful entertainment value of it, is totally lost on many of us that believe everything they see and hear regarding the media. Hate to be the bearer of bad news folks, but the Taco Bell dog doesn't really talk either! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #49 November 25, 2009 Quote..everybody was in on the production of this 'prank' you think even the passenger was in on it? From the look of it I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that. And if he was then if he isn't an actor he's missed his calling. And how would that be effective as a prank if he's in on it? Or are you saying that the whole thing is a prank on us, the viewers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #50 November 25, 2009 QuoteThen again, as has been implied several times, and which I've believed from the outset...everybody was in on the production of this 'prank' We have a BINGO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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