WatchYourStep 0 #26 October 24, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Modern tandem skydiving isn't about the instructor having fun or teaching students. It's about providing a "skydiving" carnival ride to as many paying customers as you can. Man I'm glad my dropzone isn't like that If you are a TI and that's how you look at tandems...please re-evaluate why you are doing what you are doing. You can not change your customer’s perspective of what a tandem skydive it to them. It seems (IMHO) the vast majority of people do look at this as a carnival ride(something to be done, marked of their check list and on to the next). While you can teach the ones that want to learn most just want to be taken for the ride. Kirk- I see what you are saying, but I think that really comes down to how you treat each student. If the staff make the jump seem like a carnival ride that is how "customers" will explain their experience. However if we educate them, I think they get more out of it. Pulling, turning even assisting on landing if they like (I realize that's a whole other topic). Granted I'm new to the sport and fairly young in the teaching area, but I hope I never have that view on it. If that was the case I'll move some place where I can just drop my customer off, leave them, pick up my next one and make the next load... "You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #27 October 24, 2008 QuoteYou can not change your customer’s perspective of what a tandem skydive it to them. It seems (IMHO) the vast majority of people do look at this as a carnival ride.... But I do it regularly! When a tandem students acts like it is a carnival ride to them I show them all the cool stuff they can learn that real skydivers do. And all but a very, very few have really appreciated it. And even more important is that when their friends see the video and see all they things they did, they might come to the dropzone wanting to learn! It's all up to us. If we give up and treat them like carnival rides, that is what they will become, but if we treat it as a learning experience, they will too, and might just have a better chance of coming back for more instruction. Just imagine every tandem student coming to the dropzone begging their instructor "show me everything", and "let me do it all!" Maybe instructors would be so busy having so much fun instructing their students that they wouldn't even worry about what canopy they are using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #28 October 24, 2008 Quote The educated Instructor will pick the rig off the rack with the more fitting canopy. Any drop zone I've worked at you pick the rig that is packed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #29 October 25, 2008 Quote. You do not have the right to risk your passenger's safety because of your desire to go fast, though. precision 330...stand up/soft landings...one after the other....all conditions...day after day...on the target. Am I really risking my passenger's safety??.................................. Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #30 October 25, 2008 That does help to have a packed rig!Where I jump we reutinely work together, T-I's and Packers, to set each T-I up with the rig they would like for the next jump or two. Rarely is it the "jump what is packed" answer. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #31 October 25, 2008 Quote That does help to have a packed rig!Where I jump we reutinely work together, T-I's and Packers, to set each T-I up with the rig they would like for the next jump or two. Rarely is it the "jump what is packed" answer. Matt I suppose up here in Canada where we have such a short season we are more prone to being short on equipment during peak season than more southern DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #32 October 26, 2008 Quote While you can teach the ones that want to learn most just want to be taken for the ride. I teach them all. They check canopy, they fly it around, I point out the landmarks, and they help me land it! I don't care if it's a one time thing or their first of 1000 jumps. They are strapped to me and getting the full treatment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #33 November 3, 2008 QuoteI've heard of exactly one tandem incident involving a low turn. I'm just replying to myself to revise that number to two, given the incident this weekend at Orange. Perhaps we just lead a sheltered existence up here...I honestly wasn't aware that tandem low-turn injuries (or deaths) were on the rise. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #34 November 3, 2008 QuoteQuote. Am I really risking my passenger's safety?? Yes, if you are hooking it in !....smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Liemberg 0 #35 November 3, 2008 Quote Does that mean that I need to do another million push-ups, chin-ups, parallel bar dips, etc. before down-sizing? Yes you do. If not for the safety of our beloved tandem passenger, we also have your physical well-being at heart! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #36 November 6, 2008 Did you see the HXP 280 ? scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 22 #37 November 6, 2008 nope but i guess its a fantastic student canopy The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #38 November 6, 2008 www.jojowing.com/skydiving/hxp/hxp.phpscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 22 #39 November 6, 2008 ok, i'll open the next can of worms: small canopies allow better penetration on high wind days - so does that mean TI's equipped with tandem-pocket-rocktes will continue to jump even when windlimits do not allow it? this year I've seen to many tandem jumps made on days with way more than 20 kot winds + gusty conditions.... and all the cool "TI's" on 370's. 360's and smaller were flying backwards The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #40 November 6, 2008 IMHO it's up to the TM to step up and refuse the jump in such conditions. If you accept to do the jump, you must be prepared to assume ALL responsabilities, from "bad publicity due to passengers unhappy with conditions" to "hurting/killing a passenger because you need to earn 50$"scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Baksteen 84 #41 November 6, 2008 Quote Did you see the HXP 280 ? Next can of worms: AFF student #1 to AFF student #2: "Dude, you still jumping that Manta? You really need to downsize - they normally suspend TWO people under a canopy that size " Besides, I read the thread but I still can't see the reason for such small tandem canopies - sure you'll get better penetration, but what about the other side of the coin, a lot more forward speed during a landing on a no wind day?"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 22 #42 November 6, 2008 Quote IMHO it's up to the TM to step up and refuse the jump in such conditions. If you accept to do the jump, you must be prepared to assume ALL responsabilities, from "bad publicity due to passengers unhappy with conditions" to "hurting/killing a passenger because you need to earn 50$" talk about breaking an already open door bt seriously: i have seen far to many instances where TI's still jumped needing 4 catchers instead of just saying no and getting off of loads The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #43 November 6, 2008 I also saw people jumping in hectic conditions. Personnally I prefer to say no.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Liemberg 0 #35 November 3, 2008 Quote Does that mean that I need to do another million push-ups, chin-ups, parallel bar dips, etc. before down-sizing? Yes you do. If not for the safety of our beloved tandem passenger, we also have your physical well-being at heart! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #36 November 6, 2008 Did you see the HXP 280 ? scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #37 November 6, 2008 nope but i guess its a fantastic student canopy The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #38 November 6, 2008 www.jojowing.com/skydiving/hxp/hxp.phpscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #39 November 6, 2008 ok, i'll open the next can of worms: small canopies allow better penetration on high wind days - so does that mean TI's equipped with tandem-pocket-rocktes will continue to jump even when windlimits do not allow it? this year I've seen to many tandem jumps made on days with way more than 20 kot winds + gusty conditions.... and all the cool "TI's" on 370's. 360's and smaller were flying backwards The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #40 November 6, 2008 IMHO it's up to the TM to step up and refuse the jump in such conditions. If you accept to do the jump, you must be prepared to assume ALL responsabilities, from "bad publicity due to passengers unhappy with conditions" to "hurting/killing a passenger because you need to earn 50$"scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #41 November 6, 2008 Quote Did you see the HXP 280 ? Next can of worms: AFF student #1 to AFF student #2: "Dude, you still jumping that Manta? You really need to downsize - they normally suspend TWO people under a canopy that size " Besides, I read the thread but I still can't see the reason for such small tandem canopies - sure you'll get better penetration, but what about the other side of the coin, a lot more forward speed during a landing on a no wind day?"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #42 November 6, 2008 Quote IMHO it's up to the TM to step up and refuse the jump in such conditions. If you accept to do the jump, you must be prepared to assume ALL responsabilities, from "bad publicity due to passengers unhappy with conditions" to "hurting/killing a passenger because you need to earn 50$" talk about breaking an already open door bt seriously: i have seen far to many instances where TI's still jumped needing 4 catchers instead of just saying no and getting off of loads The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #43 November 6, 2008 I also saw people jumping in hectic conditions. Personnally I prefer to say no.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
