how do you handle fat tandems?

[steveorino 7]

I'm not being very PC here, but how do you guys handle fat tandems? You know the ones who are below any weight limit but have lots of flab. The leg straps won't cinch down more than an inch or less and they lay at a 90 degree angle. Upon deployment it is like jello through a strainer. The opening shock pulls the leg straps up through the fat to a more normal 45 degree angle and now your student is 8 inches below the top of the shoulder harness, and the chest strap is precariously close to their chin.

Do you guys say, "I'm sorry, you're not fit enough (or you're too fat) to skydive??

steveOrino

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Do you guys say, "I'm sorry, you're not fit enough (or you're too fat) to skydive??

No, I take them and loosen the chest strap after opening so they can breathe. They often don't have a good time because they are in pain all the way down, but I guess that's life being a fatty.

[steveorino 7]

Isn't it a danger to have the chest strap "move" up that much?

steveOrino

[livendive 8]

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Do you guys say, "I'm sorry, you're not fit enough (or you're too fat) to skydive??

Yes, I just word it a bit more nicely ("Sorry, but I need to be completely confident that I can get my student down safely, and with today's weather conditions, I'm not sure I can do that with you, so we're not going to be able to jump")

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[steveorino 7]

I'm not sure how weather conditions apply ... Maybe I'm not being clear. Her legs are so fat the strap will not tighten down. But when you deploy the leg strap ride up a bit and lowers her in the harness.

steveOrino

[livendive 8]

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I'm not sure how weather conditions apply ... Maybe I'm not being clear. Her legs are so fat the strap will not tighten down. But when you deploy the leg strap ride up a bit and lowers her in the harness.

Yeah, I knew what you meant, I just use the weather as a partial excuse so it doesn't seem like the blame lies entirely in her folds. It gives her an out when telling her friends why she didn't jump.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Isn't it a danger to have the chest strap "move" up that much?

I don't think I have seen it ride up so much that I was afraid for the student's safety. I do tend to really tighten the main lift webs and back diagonals when I think they are going to 'flow' to the point that they are almost being crunched.

[BIGUN 1,233]

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I'm not sure how weather conditions apply ... Maybe I'm not being clear. Her legs are so fat the strap will not tighten down. But when you deploy the leg strap ride up a bit and lowers her in the harness.

"I'm sorry, but the equipment is designed for those whose height & weight are proportionate."
It was one of the first things someone saw while viewing the Tulsa Tandems website - which prevented 99% from even calling.
It has to be politely mentioned in private if they show up to pursue the matter.

In light of last year's incident and that not all tandem rigs have yet to be "Y" modified - it ain't worth the risk to take a round bottom - period.

Fuck PC - I'd rather hurt their feelings and wind up in court with a documented case and precedent for not taking them; than bear the burden of not hurting their feelings and jeopardizing their body or even their life.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[steveorino 7]

I'll capture some stills next weekend off the video and you guys will see what I mean. Thanks for the input so far.

steveOrino

[OnYourBack 0]

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In light of last year's incident and that not all tandem rigs have yet to be "Y" modified - it ain't worth the risk to take a round bottom - period.

Its not worth taking any student if you don't harness them properly. She fell out because she wasn't harnessed properly, not because of size or lack of a Y mod.

[sid 1]

I won't take them anymore Steve! After the incidents and having taken a few people who had miserable times (even though they say they didn't) I just politely say that "I'm sorry, I cannot adjust the harness to safely take your body type." I wrote an opinion on my website some time ago, haven't taken it down yet because I wanted to remind myself NOT to be lulled into a false sense of security
http://www.sidsrigging.com/opinions/opinions_index.htm

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[TALONSKY 0]

When I have a heavy student that complains, I explain that they can try to move the leg straps more out to the thigh area (by shifting the weight to one leg and taking there arms and pushing the leg strap down). When I have a heavy student I will take the time on the ground to explain this. In the air I do not make any excuses for it if they are uncomfortable (I just do the above) and ignore any other comments.
I would caution any instructor from using the words “I am sorry “ in any context other than if you are not going to take them skydiving, as it implies that you did something wrong. It could also be taken out of context in a lawsuit too. I also would caution too much against explaining that the harness has limitations as this may imply as an instructor you should not have taken them.
Kirk

[bclark 0]

We regularly take tandems up to the TSO limit of the gear here. (Sigma) With a properly adjusted harness we can not only do them safely but without complaints of discomfort from the student. They have fun, can lift their feet for landing, and come back for seconds. We are at sea level. I know that in the Sigma Harness Adjustment Guide they show an example of a "hefty" woman in a harness.

[TALONSKY 0]

SIGMA system is in my humble opinion the best. The student harness is extremely comfortable.

[Liemberg 0]

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I'm not being very PC here, but how do you guys handle fat tandems?

With some leverage out of the door & the blisfull workings of gravity in freefall?
The question ought to be "are you fit enough to make ONE skydive?" With some planning and preparation plus some carefulness in execution (i.e. dont let them drop out of the harness and if neccesary extend it with extra webbing) surviving once seems feasible in most cases when there doesn't seem to be the slightest chance of an emerging skydiving career.
Would one risk spraining an ankle?
Last saturday a guy passed out in front of me and the first one of the day (a girl) planted her foot down a bit too early.
Both left slightly limping, but completely satisfied...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[diablopilot 2]

I don't take them.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[piisfish 137]

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I don't take them.

heavy I take, fat I don't.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[diablopilot 2]

Bingo.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[livendive 8]

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heavy I take, fat I don't.

That. My TSO limit is around 240 lbs. I'll take a 6'+ guy that weighs that most days without blinking more than a couple times, but I won't take a woman much past 190...*maybe* 200 if she's tall. My personal limits may seem somewhat sexist to some, and I really don't care. If I think they're too fat to lift their legs for landing, I'll decline as politely as possible.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydived19006 4]

Even saying a 5'6" woman at 200 lbs is a bit to vague. If she's a 120 lb woman with an extra 80 lbs in the ass, it's a larger issue than if the weight is distributed from her fat little toes right up to pudgy cheeks. Also need to consider age and level of fitness.

The simple "H/W proportionate" statement on our web site, as well as some generic verbiage over the phone tend to keep most of the problem children from showing up at the DZ. It’s a whole lot easier on everyone if you can head em off well before they walk in the DZ! The person who’s work’n the phones is generally way underappreciated!

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[tqsmile 0]

Its a difficult one.I take my student away from the rest and explain to them politly that because of their weight I am going to tighten their legstraps tighter than normal.I explain why,and that they will be uncomfortable but safe. If the chest strap is to tight after opening I will loosen a little.
Doing the legstraps a bit tighter through the flab prevents them from sinking after deploy.
I have had good reults and passangers have all been happy...sore legs a little but happy

TQ
I am me and you are you, so deal with it!!!
www.skydivepe.com

[SimonBones 1]

Sometimes the manifester can mention the H/W proportional thing and the general reluctance of an instructor to take them... but mention there are a few instructors who would for a couple of extra bucks on the side. Not my deal, I just don't take them. I'm a smaller built guy and I'm usually ridiculously out of breath after coming down from a fat one.

For harness fitting, we use the triple tightening method. Tighten them to an uncomfortable squeeze a little earlier than usual, then go let them walk around and chat with friends and family. Come by some time later and do it again. This allowed some of their bodily waters to displace from the harness tightened areas and allow to you make it even tighter. Then just before you get in the plane, give them a third extra tightening. Works like a charm. Sucks for them, but they're fat anyway so who cares

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[riggerrob 615]

Fuck PC - I'd rather hurt their feelings and wind up in court with a documented case and precedent for not taking them; than bear the burden of not hurting their feelings and jeopardizing their body or even their life.

[Liemberg 0]

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We agree.
I would rather hurt their feelings than hurt their legs.

What would help, when it comes to "hurting their feelings" that there's a paragraph in the written "terms and conditions" of the place where you are jumping that allows the tandeminstructor (i.e. you) to refuse to jump with them without being obliged to give them a reason why.

(Could be bad breath, could be racist prejudice, could be you being an ass***e, could be too much fat - they will never know...)

In my experience, once they understand that this is a somewhat different business model (hint: everyone just signing papers that say they are OK with us breaking both their legs and them not sueing us for that) they are also OK with you, the TI, being in charge from the get go - you may not go and need not to tell them why....

The disandvantage is of course that secretly they expect to be kept in one piece, despite the contract they just signed...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[Mixoligist 0]

I offer them a light snack under canopy

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Better you than me
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