Do Your Tandem Students Pull?

[BASE841 3]

I've spoken to tandem instructors from other DZs and based on my small sample, found few who even let their students attempt to pull. Why? They usually tell me that their students won't pull, so why bother? Last week, I was hiking with another TI and he told me only 1 out of 20 of his students would pull.

By an interesting coincidence, that's the same ratio of how many of our students DO pull! Yes, about 19 out of 20 of our tandem students pull their own ripcord.

What's our secret at Skydive NM? We use audible altimeters in the student's frap hat.

Other than that, our training is about the same at other DZs. We take about 30 minutes to train: overview of a typical tandem, emergency procedures, practice exit position and freefall position, practice checking their altimeter, practice pull, then full-gear exit practice and away we go.

So, does anybody else get such a high percentage of their students to pull? How do you get your results? Do the rest of you TIs think it's a good idea?

Looking forward to your responses.

[Kimblair13 0]

Hey. Here at ESD we have our students pull. A finger in the face is the signal. I'd say about 80% of my students get the pull. About 99.9% try and a few just can't locate the rip cord. I think it makes it more fun for the student. Just sucks when they pull before you tell them to and they throw the ripcord away.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

It totally depends. If they show up as a "passenger" then I will not teach them the pull sequence. If they indicate that they are a "student" really interested in the whole procedure then I will, of course, train them and let them pull. I don't really get many people interested in pulling on a first tandem.

Chuck

[AFFI 0]

At our DZ the first tandem is not just a thrill ride but also a learning tandem. I develop the training material under the direction of our DZO and we utilize DVD video for training tandems as well as ground training with the student before the first jump. A high percentage of the tandem students perform very well. Tandem students have an altimeter and are afforded an opportunity to pull the RC on their first skydive as well as getting them involved in flying and landing the canopy. The second tandem encourages student participation even more involving them in certain aspects of the dive flow such as giving the exit count, making turns and tracking as well as flying the canopy, pattern and landing. As a result our solo freefall students after having been educated during the tandem progression perform quite well indeed. I personally have nearly 600 solo instructional skydives with students after our tandem progression and I could count the number of times I have had to deploy for a student on one hand with digits left over so we are clearly getting good results where getting tandem students involved in their skydive is concerned. Many tandem instructors who join our team have expressed skeptical concerns at first until they see that the system is working quite well. The philosophy is that we do not have “Tandem Masters” on our staff but rather “Tandem Instructors”.

Mykel

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[LawnDart21 0]

I give every one of my tandem students the option to pull the ripcord, as long as they take my oath:

(Repeat after me):

"I, (name), PROMISE, NOT TO PULL THE RIRCORD, WHILE STILL IN THE AIRPLANE."

I'd say in about 1000 tandem jumps, 900 have said they wanted to pull the ripcord, and again, about 9 out of 10 that said yes, do it successfully.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

So, does anybody else get such a high percentage of their students to pull?

I'd say about 8 in 10 of my students pull, wearing an altimeter, and getting a reminder from me at about 6500 agl. My training for most first time tandems is about 6 minutes long, plus additional chit chat while gearing them up.

Tandem instructors that say the don't bother to teach the students to pull because they never do, sound lazy to me.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skydiverton 0]

Just another related question:
How many ribcords did the passengers loose?

I never tell the passenger to pull the ribcord. Even if I would do it there is a problem, our rigs do not have a secondary ribcord located in a suitable place for the passenger. (It's fixed just below the breakaway pillow)

By the way we consider passengers as thrill seeking persons, not as students. Then there is no need to train for a ribcord pull. (Student or pax is another thread. Please do not reply to this part of the message in this thread)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

How many ripcords did the passengers loose?

None. We use Sigmas here (which all have retractable handles). Scott Campos and I own 2k3 Racer Tandems and our handle are retractable just like a Sigma, so no possibility of loss there either.


Chuck

[BASE841 3]

We don't lose any ripcords when our tandem students pull. Our Strong rigs have a bungy attached to the primary (student accessable) ripcord.

[LawnDart21 0]

Quote

How many ripcords did the passengers loose?

I've lost one ripcord. I "present" the ripcord to the student as they reach for it with my own hand gripped around the cable housing, so if they dont find it, I pull the student handle out myself, or if they do pull it, I just follow the chord out with my hand as they pull and hold on to it myself.

Ironically the one RC I lost wasnt dropped during deployment, I asked the student to hold the RC for me while I dealt with some line twists/riser twists. The student said "okay" so I handed him the RC. Once out of the twists I asked for it back. The student replied "I was supposed to keep that?"

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

Ironically the one RC I lost wasnt dropped during deployment, I asked the student to hold the RC for me while I dealt with some line twists/riser twists. The student said "okay" so I handed him the RC. Once out of the twists I asked for it back. The student replied "I was supposed to keep that?"

LMAO, that's funny.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

By the way we consider passengers as thrill seeking persons, not as students. Then there is no need to train for a ripcord pull.

I think that's a short-sighted attitude. Please look again at the other posts in this thread: 80% to 90% of passengers/students who are trained to pull, do so. Treat customers like mere passengers, you will see them once, and then they're gone. Treat them as student skydivers in training, a few will want to come back for more training and become your fellow skydivers.

[livendive 8]

Quote

Treat customers like mere passengers, you will see them once, and then they're gone. Treat them as student skydivers in training, a few will want to come back for more training and become your fellow skydivers.

I wonder if the numbers bear that out. I suspect we have no way of knowing.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[LawnDart21 0]

Quote

a few will want to come back for more training and become your fellow skydivers.

But the ones that do..........There is nothing better (for me) to be on like an 8 way, and look around and see 4 or more of my prior tandem students flying circles around me.

As an aside, I know its hard on a busy Saturday to give every student %100 of the attention they deserve, especially if say I am doing 16 tandems back to back to back, but I have found that it can be done, it just requires alot of caffiene and a good night sleep the night before...... Taking enough time to treat every customer, 18 yrs old or 80 yrs old, like a student, is a vital aspect of projecting our sport in a positive light, and part of that (for me) is ensuring that every student I jump with has the opportunity to pull the ripcord if they would like to.

If they are on the fence about pulling the RC, like they want to, but aren't sure if they should do it, I say "I can pull the RC and you can go home and tell all of your friends that I saved YOUR life, or you can pull the RC and go home and tell all of your friends that YOU saved MY life. Which would you rather tell them?" (works every time......lol)

Remember, quite literally, we are gravity's ambassadors.
It might sound hokey, but I try to remind myself every time I show up for work that "I don't haul meat, I take students on thier first skydive".

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[livendive 8]

Quote

As an aside, I know its hard on a busy Saturday to give every student %100 of the attention they deserve, especially if say I am doing 16 tandems back to back to back, but I have found that it can be done, it just requires alot of caffiene and a good night sleep the night before......

And lots of spare ripcords and locking loops?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mdrejhon 8]

Audible altimeter for a first jump? People tell me I should not become dependant on devices (You know about the willingness to jump without an AAD, etc).

Then again, maybe only for tandem jumps it may be an excellent idea under a strictly training wheel perspective only -- once the student is in AFF, the "training wheel" of an audible should definitely come off...

Besides, I am deaf, I could not depend on an audible, but I understand what people mean about device dependency...

[BASE841 3]

Not dependent on devices? I have yet to hear of someone who didn't jump without depending on a device (their parachute.)

Seriously, the audible altimeter helps our students keep altitude aware. Even when the few who almost completely freak in freefall hear the BEEP BEEP BEEP, they realize it's time to pull and (usually) pull. I think it's a great way to overcome sensory overload.

Personally, I use an audible when I do a busy jump (AFF, tandem, photo.) Do I rely on it? No. Is it helpful? Absolutely.

I would encourage my AFF and S/L students to wear an audible. But I would also watch to see if they are depending on it and not checking their altimeter often enough. It hasn't been an issue yet, since our student helmets aren't set up for an audible (only the tandem frap hats.) But I've had one student ask for one, just last week.

[LawnDart21 0]

Only lost one ripcord (funny story in above post) in 1000 tandems.

No through loops lost yet, only one handle pulled per jump so far...........lol.............but that could change on any jump, right?

[livendive 8]

Barring a high speed malfunction, would purpose would an audible serve for a S/L student?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

Quote

Only lost one ripcord (funny story in above post) in 1000 tandems.

No through loops lost yet, only one handle pulled per jump so far...........lol.............but that could change on any jump, right?

You've got me beat! I've lost one ripcord and a couple-three through loops, and that's with only instructing my student to pull on 50 or so jumps...certainly less than 100.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydiverton 0]

Quote

I never tell the passenger to pull the ribcord. Even if I would do it there is a problem, our rigs do not have a secondary ribcord located in a suitable place for the passenger. (It's fixed just below the breakaway pillow)

Secondary release is the white spotbelow the breakaway handle

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[BASE841 3]

Clarification: audible altimeter on S/L progression, during longer freefalls.

[slotperfect 7]

I used to train my first-time tandem students to pull. Few of them did - about 20%. I adjusted my method of training, but the percentage remained about the same - even military individuals who are used to performance oriented training.

Like Chuck, if it's a tandem student who wants to learn how to skydive, I teach them to pull.

Second time tandem students have already been through the initial sensory overload of their first jump - I always teach them to pull, and my percentage is about 80%.

I do not agree with putting audible altimeters on students.

Arrive Safely

John

[Shark 0]

Speaking of "pulling," I teach all tandems to pull and always assist them. Some pull, some don't.

During an AFF Level 1 a student will often need assistance as well. If they are still trying to pull my altimeter of I will have already deployed for them.

[Zoltan 0]

In Finland we really try to handle the tandem students as students, but we still do not train them to pull. Why? I do not know.
About 1 out 20 of my students asked if they can pull. In that case I ask back if they are willing to take a 10-15 minutes extra training and they usually say yes. So far all trained students pulled, but I was assisting their hands.
But personally I do not see the need of training all students to pull. First of all because I do not want to take the risk that the student does not pull and walks away disappointed or frustrated. It is not what they are paying for. I want to see themselves brave cool folks doing great job.
I believe that tandem skydive is a great thing because with the least training anyone can experience the thrill of the freefall and the parachute ride with the maximum level of safety.
I do not want my students watching their altitude meters, but I want them to smile to the cameraman and look out and enjoy the freefall and the beauty of the landscape.
If they are "future skydivers" they will come back because of the experience not because they pulled.

But, that is only my opinion :)