strong chest strap choking student

[shawnstarr 0]

really fucking annoying!!!!!! no matter how i adjust the harness or what shape of student i have, i almost always look daown after pening to see a chest strap crammed into my students throat. i have to loosen it and shove it down and out of the way. sometimes this doesnt work and i have them stand in my feet while i shorten the harness. what i pain in the ass.

any comments or advice????????????

.

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'I refuse to tiptoe quitely through life
only to arrive safely at death' Anon

[scrublink 0]

It sound like the students are either sliding down into a loos harness or rotating in the harness. Double check the back strap adjustments and make sure the legs are snug (not overly tight). I have found that it helps to tighten down the shoulder straps while they are hooked up (just before exit). I tell them it will be a little snug but after opening it will be comfortable. I have had a lot less harness creep doing this.

[FLYBERT71 0]

Are you using the old or new harness? I have been using the new ones and have found it helps to get the vertical straps fairly short. Not so tight as to make them hunch over though.

"If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive."
Josh Whipple 7/15/70-2/10/05

[TALONSKY 0]

I have been noticing a lot of the other TM’s at where I work leave their student harness fairly loose in comparison to how I usually adjust mine. This last weekend I decided to try a looser fit on the harness’s to see for myself which I truly prefer. What I found was every student complained about how the chest strap hit their throat and a few complained even after I loosened it all the way. Now even when I have the harness snug on them half the time it still is in their throat but I have never had anyone complain after I loosened it. Also with the looser fit half of my students could not get their legs up I believe this was due to me having the hook shifted a little back for easier hook up however what this I believe does is holds the students weight more by the back laterals and not by the front( so essentially the harness is pulling their legs back.
Kirk

[skydiveoc 0]

I agree in keeping everything as low as possible and VERY tight leg straps.

Still sucks though. I have heard of some students going to the ER because of this.

josh

[tkhayes 126]

On the new style harnesses, we found that i9t was impossible to stop the chest strap from choking the student. Several reasons,
1. articulated harness makes it easy for student to rotate when they lift kness to sitting position (mostly for comfort on ride down)
2. too much hardware on the lift web to allow chest strap to be moved down
and others

We switched back to the old harnesses with newer fatter padded legatraps and they work great.
1. Student can still lift knees for comfort but that matter less due to fat legstraps
2. lots of room to move chest strap down
3. old harnesses can easily be retrofitted with new leg pads as well as harness stitching if they are showing their age.

TK

[riggerrob 558]

We prefer to keep a couple of old-style Strong student harnesses as they fit better on small students.

[riggerrob 558]

2. too much hardware on the lift web to allow chest strap to be moved down
and others

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MLWs are definitely "over-engineered." I removed chest padding to give us a bit more room for adjustments.
There has got to be a simpler way to build student harnesses.
Maybe we can eliminate choking by installing old school, "aerobatic," "cross your heart" chest straps,
Hee!
Hee!

[mark135 0]

It would help if you could be more specific as to "old" and "new" harnesses as there are 3 different strong harnesses.

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"It seemed like a good idea at the time"

[bosco 0]

I recently bought a 2 new Strong systems (Oct last year) and the harness that came with it are driving me nuts. At the DZ I previously worked they used the newer Strong harness (articulated and purchased a year earlier) and Ive noticed a definite difference between that model and the new ones I just bought. The main lift web length is far longer and they are an absolute pain when it comes to having the chest strap rise up around the students neck. I asked the dealer about this and they had no knowledge of a change in design but it is evident that this has happened.
Why? I spend allot of time on the front and even when I do the things up myself I end up spending half the flight choking. The earlier model (of the newer type) did not do this!!!!

[crwpj 0]

Quote

what i pain in the ass.

any comments or advice??????????

making your student more comfortable should never be a pain in the ass. i work with Strong rigs and harnesses every day. i take the same steps you do after opening to ensure my student's comfort. i never thought of it as a pain in the ass. i always thought of it as just doing my job.
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin.
options: it does a body good.

[bosco 0]

Quote
i never thought of it as a pain in the ass. i always thought of it as just doing my job.


I think you got the wrong end of the stick, Im sure they were not referring to the "making of the student comfortable" as being the "pain in the ass" but the harness constantly ending up around the students neck as being the pain.
Im sure that with all the feedback re this particular harness type this issue is not just a case of a lazy tandem I or bad harnessing. There has been a change in the design and Im not the only one to notice. Other competent TIs who before had no issue with the harness when changing to the design with the ususually long main lift web have all had problems.

[linestretch 0]

Quote

Quote
i never thought of it as a pain in the ass. i always thought of it as just doing my job.


I think you got the wrong end of the stick, Im sure they were not referring to the "making of the student comfortable" as being the "pain in the ass" but the harness constantly ending up around the students neck as being the pain.
Im sure that with all the feedback re this particular harness type this issue is not just a case of a lazy tandem I or bad harnessing. There has been a change in the design and Im not the only one to notice. Other competent TIs who before had no issue with the harness when changing to the design with the ususually long main lift web have all had problems.

EVERYTHING he said and more! I've had to undo the chest strap after opening several times cuz it now has become a neck strap, and the belly band is the new chest strap. I'm very good about having the leggies tight and the belly band low, but it still happens. I know the sigma's don't do it....so what's the friggin deal.

my pics & stuff!

[crwpj 0]

Quote

Im sure they were not referring to the "making of the student comfortable" as being the "pain in the ass" but the harness constantly ending up around the students neck as being the pain.

There has been a change in the design and Im not the only one to notice. Other competent TIs who before had no issue with the harness when changing to the design with the ususually long main lift web have all had problems.

i work with five different designs of Strong student harnesses. there are some designs i prefer over others, but adjusting the student's harness after opening is a standard step on every tandem i do. i just don't see the new harnesses choking students any more or less than the old harnesses available to me. i just don't see any of this as a pain in the ass.
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin.
options: it does a body good.

[TALONSKY 0]

I think you are missing the point, it is not that fact that the instructor has to adjust it after openning. It is the fact that the Chest strap becomes a neck strap that is the problem to begin with and depending on how loose the they were harnessed up to begin with the neck strap can dig into there neck even if totally openned.
Finally Shawn is just looking for hints on how to lessen this being an issue.
Kirk

[bosco 0]

Yes agreed, I think he is missing the point completely and will continue to do so.. READ THE DAM REPLIES PROPERLY!!!!
No one is complaining about making the student comfy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just about the harness!!! If you dont have an issue with it then you havent come across this particular design.
Jezzzzzzz

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I wish they would put a more secure 'sew over' on the end of the chest strap. I am a bit nervous about undoing the chest strap completely when I loosen it. I would sew it over myself, I dont really feel it is long enough to lose the extra length.

[DanglesOZQld 0]

I have used the padded harness primarily over a lot of tandem jumps and actually prefer them to the old "no padding" type.

Basically there is a problem on opening most times with the chest strap rising up but I find that this can be overcome by getting the student to stand on your feet and then loosening the chest strap off once the canopy is open and checks are done.

I find that the padded type and the non padded are very different when it comes to adjustment even for the same type of passenger.

Basically I do the padded type up as such before donning it on the student -

1) Shoulder buckle straps pulled so that there is quite a lot of webbing past the buckle (Some 20 cms). This means that the shoulder buckle will sit most of the time quite low in front of the student and not on top of the shoulders or even slightly behind like the non padded version.

2) Rear side diagonal adjustment straps with only about 3 inches of webbing from the buckle.

With the padded variety I find that the shoulder buckles need to be as low down as possible in front of the student. Everything else when preparing to jump is done up from the point at which you started above. The belly strap doesn't need to be tight at all either. After opening get the student to stand on your feet and loosen the chest strap.

I have had very few complaints with the tandems thus far and nil sick passengers in the air.......two on the ground after we landed.

BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[mark135 0]

Ok. Lets clarify.
We will calssify the harnesses as the

old ones (no leg strap padding)

the middle ones (hip rings)

The new ones (just like the old ones except it has the thick round padding on leg straps)

I think the chest strap problem you are having is with the middle one. with both the old and new ones you can keep the chest strap lower as it is free to slide on the mlw
with the middle ones the chest strap were difficult to keep low on student.

I am thinking that you arent getting the mlw adjusted short enough.?

with the new harness's as well as the old I will snug up (again) the mlw in the plane just before hookup.. not tight just snug.
That seems to help. I have done this with some 3rd time tandems (afp) and all have said it wasnt too tight they couldnt arch.

This was difficult if not impossible to do with the "middle" harnesses

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"It seemed like a good idea at the time"