Choosing your secondary - the law - USPA

[bogwarrior 0]

Hi,

Would anybody be able to clarify the legal side of choosing a secondary. Do USPA mainsides have to jump with USPA AFF I ´s ? I have been offered in the past instructors rated by other " federations " and not meaning to question the standards of said " federations " I am concerned for liability purposes.

Thanks
David

[Hooknswoop 19]

In the U.S., legally, you do not need any USPA ratings to jump with students. For the USPA BSR's, both Instructors need to be rated. Once the student demonstrates the ability to deploy stable on time, you only need one Instructor.

Derek

[bogwarrior 0]

I cant find a relative reference in the USPA manaul to the requirements of the secondary instructor. Does this mean i can take a guy wirh 100 jumps on the other side ? Must he/she be USPA on a USPA affiliated dropzone ?


I had to politley refuse the assistance of an instructor rated by his home federation. He had not jumped in twenty months but insisted there was no recurrency requirements from his home federation for AFF´- I´s. The DZ is USPA affiliated.

[jlmiracle 7]

Both jumpmasters (instructors) that jump with students must have an AFFI rating at most dropzones in the US. It is not a US law, but it is required in the BSR's.

Not all dropzones will recognize a rating from another country.

The USPA is a voluntary organization. You don't have to be a member of the USPA to skydive.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[bogwarrior 0]

Ok, If we ignore the fact that USPA is not legally binding ( although a trial lawyer might see it diffferently ) but is a code we subscribe to. ..

What im getting at is I cant find anything relating to it in the manual. That is to say that a secondary must be USPA rated to jump with a USPA main?

I understand that the USPA is a vol. code, but assuming a DZ is a affiliated to it , they must follow it. What im looking for comment on , is if you follow the USPA guidelines , must the AFF I on the other side be USPA also ?

[djmarvin 2]

There was an Instructor who took a VERY experienced skydiver on the other side and that instructor WAS an instructor. I off the top of my head don't remember all the details and I don't want to misstate any facts so thats all I have.

DJ Marvin
AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E
http://www.theratingscenter.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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I cant find a relative reference in the USPA manaul to the requirements of the secondary instructor.

The USPA ISP program I use is done as follows.
2 Instructor assisted tandems, after completing those successfully, I teach them the ground school and continue through the program with just myself as a mainside AFF Instructor, thus aliminating the need for a reserve side AFF-I.

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Does this mean i can take a guy wirh 100 jumps on the other side ?

Not that would be STUPID wouldn't it?

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Must he/she be USPA on a USPA affiliated dropzone ?

If your dropzone is a USPA group member, yes, they have to be a USPA rated AFF-I and hold a in date membership card to have a harness hold on your student.

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I had to politley refuse the assistance of an instructor rated by his home federation. He had not jumped in twenty months but insisted there was no recurrency requirements from his home federation for AFF´- I´s.

Wise choice IMO.

Quote

The DZ is USPA affiliated.

Call USPA directly maybe?



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

It's int here somewhere, or at least it used to be. Something along the lines of the student must have 2 instructors until they demonstrate the ability to pull on time and stable.

I did a lot of AFF jumps where I was the only instructor after the student had 3 tandem jumps.

Derek

[BIGUN 1,058]

Check the IRM. While it's not in Cat A & B - Cat C, clearly states 2 AFF/Is on the jump. My version is March 2002, so it may have been rectified in a newer version.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Does this mean i can take a guy wirh 100 jumps on the other side ? Must he/she be USPA on a USPA affiliated dropzone

If they can't jump with anyone not rated until they get their A lic. I would think that jumping with a person with 100 jumps is a no.

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b. Harness-hold program [NW]
(1) All students must jump with two USPA
AFF rating holders until demonstrating
the ability to reliably deploy in the bellyto-
earth orientation at the correct altitude
without assistance.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Hooknswoop 19]

I've done a lot of AFF and AFP (solo instructor the whole way through) and I hated having someone on the other side. Main side just made the exits harder (I never got rolled when I was solo and always exited reserve side), I hated having to wonder what the other AFFI was going to do, etc. I never 'dropped' a student and the other AFFI when I did 2-JM AFF jumps just made things harder, not easier.

Derek

[bogwarrior 0]

Morning,

Thanks for the replies. It does appear that it can only be two USPA instructors together which was my suspicion.

[riggerrob 558]

Last thing I heard was that USPA threatened to invalidate the ratings of any USPA AFF/I who jumped with a non-USPA-rated jumper on the other side of their student.
The long-term answer to your dilemma is in the ISIA thread.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Last thing I heard was that USPA threatened to invalidate the ratings of any USPA AFF/I who jumped with a non-USPA-rated jumper on the other side of their student.

Don't worry too much about the USPA actually taking action against you though. They tend to turn a blind eye to non AFFI's jumping w/ students in my experience.

Derek

[bogwarrior 0]

I tend to take the view that if its written somewhere you got to do it. For me its part of duty of care. If you start to selectivley apply the " rule book " you are IMHO on thin ice , and then where do you stop. 14 knots , 15 knots...cant have common sense by degrees..

What is the ISIA thread ?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I tend to take the view that if its written somewhere you got to do it.

USPA doesn't.

A USPA Regional Directors signature line: "It's not about the rules - it's about safety. G.P."

DZO's don't follow the rules because 1) they get in the way of profit, and 2) nothing happends if they don't.

Derek

[sneaky 0]

Quote/ Last thing I heard was that USPA threatened to invalidate the ratings of any USPA AFF/I who jumped with a non-USPA-rated jumper on the other side of their student. Unquote/



As Stated in the 2004 SIM as far as I am aware... and according to my Bible.



a. Foreign non-resident instructional rating holders appropriately and currently rated by their national aero club may train students from that nation in the U.S., provided the instruction is conducted in accordance with the USPA Basic Safety Requirements.

b. Appropriately and currently rated USPA instructional rating holders may assist in this training.

[bogwarrior 0]

Interestingly USPA headquarters are examining a detailed submission i made on the matter. For them it is not cut and dry. Even though i specifically referenced the country for which i was seeking an excemption.

What then if the regulations of the National Aero Club ( for example in terms of currency of instructors ) are more " relaxed " than those of the USPA ?

[tspillers 0]

As an additional note:

The AFFCC Standardization Meeting, USPA S&T Committee, and The USPA Board Meetings that have just completed also discussed a foreign rating holder getting a USPA rating. The decsion was they can 'test out'. IF they have an AFF rating, they can challenge the coach rating and the the AFF rating.

The training a foriegn student was pointed out in another post.

Todd

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.