49 49
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

There are many 1963A bills that end in "D"..

B17745050D, L26672287D, L27108703D, L27143052D, L29580707D, L35534904D

There are three options, a wrong letter typo, the historical data is wrong or the date 1963A is wrong but SN is correct.

 

Now, check the 1950 bills...   many don't fit the ranges..

 

The larger serial number would have been much easier to get right than the small year print on the processed image of the micro..  

My guess is the SN's are correct but years are wrong but we can't check.

 

The RECORDAK machine normally takes full images of front and back of bills,,

For the Cooper ransom fund, only one side and one half of the bill was imaged.

 

recordakprocess.jpeg.230e778b8266d2ef29b282e82c66962c.jpeg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Well, if viewers and readers of this thread WANTED...

 

What readers of this thread WANT is discussion of the Cooper case. This is not your facebook page.

 

You were in a very long term relationship. You broke up. Within short order, you have a new girlfriend who is your 'fiancee', owns half your company, and you make sniggering remarks about basic, universal, but PRIVATE human behavior.

How old did you say you were?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

There are many 1963A bills that end in "D"..

B17745050D, L26672287D, L27108703D, L27143052D, L29580707D, L35534904D

There are three options, a wrong letter typo, the historical data is wrong or the date 1963A is wrong but SN is correct.

 

Now, check the 1950 bills...   many don't fit the ranges..

 

The larger serial number would have been much easier to get right than the small year print on the processed image of the micro..  

My guess is the SN's are correct but years are wrong but we can't check.

 

The RECORDAK machine normally takes full images of front and back of bills,,

For the Cooper ransom fund, only one side and one half of the bill was imaged.

 

recordakprocess.jpeg.230e778b8266d2ef29b282e82c66962c.jpeg

 

yeah, I've been posting some stuff about this at dbcooperforum 

when I create my list, I"m going to assume the D run 50C notes are really 50D series. There are no 50D or 50E series notes in the cooper sample, which is a little unexpected. There are other FBI typos also.

 

So while it may not affect a large number of notes...there's the added wrinkle of the amount of human work that was done transcribing from microfiche, and what error rate that had, and what kind of typos.

 

the worst typo would be a full bundle start/stop pair.. that would mean 100 notes would be wrong.

I've added full range check from the collector book that's the authority in this area.

 

however he notes, there is still some discrepancy in what the ranges are supposed to be, and what got printed. Notably in the 63/63A area. I've not run into discrepancies yet though, just things that look like fbi typos.

 

checksix repeats some  of the obvious errors like 50C series for L district with a D run, (last letter in serial) which never happened. it did for 50D series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

Good point about the series year being smaller than the serial and probably more error prone in human transcription from microfiche. That's what I've been assuming.

 

Hoover memo first page said series were included "where known" but all serials seem to have some series. Maybe his comment reflected difficulty in getting the series perfect. Who knows why he said that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

this is the data structure I'm using for range checking and run for each district.

the ranges and last letter legality depend on the district.

and something like this is unique per series year and star notes.

 

I copied all the numbers from the book.


this is 63A only.

the two letters used for the dictionary lookup are start/end letter extracted from the serial. Only legal combos shown, otherwise assumed illegal. the two numbers extracted are then a known printed, legal, start/end for the number part of the serial.

the third number is just a field so I can count there.

So I should be counting to the exact thing the book says for all series years in the cooper list

 

interestingly sometimes they start the serial from the prior series year. Sometimes they start from 00000001. They don't wrap thru 00000000 when they sequence the letter at the end. They leave all 0's for a star note.

The star note sequences are separate. There's no intuitive pattern, it's just all unique per district/series year/star. Sometimes districts had no runs, it appears. (not here)

note some districts had both A and B runs. Others didn't

Quote

 

legalRangeRegular["63A"] = {
    "AA": ['02560001','26240000',0],
    "BA": ['16640001','99999999',0], 
    "BB": ['00000001','10240000',0],
    "CA": ['00000001','17920000',0],
    "DA": ['07680001','76160000',0],
    "EA": ['04480001','99999999',0],
    "EB": ['00000001','33280000',0],
    "FA": ['10240001','53120000',0],
    "GA": ['02560001','99999999',0],
    "GB": ['00000001','58880000',0],
    "HA": ['03200001','37760000',0],
    "IA": ['00000001','10240000',0],
    "JA": ['03840001','40960000',0],
    "KA": ['02560001','40960000',0],
    "LA": ['07040001','99999999',0],
    "LB": ['00000001','76160000',0],
}

legalRangeStar["63A"] = {
    "A*": ['00640001','01920000',0],
    "B*": ['01920001','05760000',0],
    "C*": ['00000001','00640000',0],
    "D*": ['00000001','03840000',0],
    "E*": ['00640001','06400000',0],
    "F*": ['01280001','03200000',0],
    "G*": ['00640001','07680000',0],
    "H*": ['00640001','02560000',0],
    "I*": ['00000001','00640000',0],
    "J*": ['00640001','02560000',0],
    "K*": ['00640001','01920000',0],
    "L*": ['01280001','09600000',0],
}

 

 

 

Edited by snowmman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here's the example for the 50C series year
see how the constraints are different compared to 63A series year.

(I've not fully verified all the numbers I'm using..I correct them when I flag an error and it's obvious I typoed)
 

legalRangeRegular["50C"] = {
    "AA": ['47880001','55080000',0],
    "BC": ['12600001','55800000',0],
    "CA": ['54000001','61560000',0],
    "DB": ['39600001','68040000',0],
    "EB": ['79200001','99999999',0],
    "EC": ['00000001','16200000',0],
    "FB": ['07200001','26280000',0],
    "GC": ['24840001','54000000',0],
    "HA": ['69480001','82440000',0],
    "IA": ['27000001','33480000',0],
    "JA": ['74160001','92520000',0],
    "KA": ['45360001','54360000',0],
    "LC": ['06840001','52200000',0],
}

legalRangeStar["50C"] = {
    "A*": ['01800001','02160000',0],
    "B*": ['08280001','09720000',0],
    "C*": ['01800001','02520000',0],
    "D*": ['04680001','05400000',0],
    "E*": ['06480001','07200000',0],
    "F*": ['03960001','08280000',0],
    "G*": ['09000001','04680000',0],
    "H*": ['02520001','10080000',0],
    "I*": ['01080001','02880000',0],
    "J*": ['03960001','01440000',0],
    "K*": ['01800001','04860000',0],
    "L*": ['09360001','11160000',0],
}
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know how clear those micro images were for the series,, 

Since there were no 1950D and 1950E bills as you would expect,,

IMO, the errors are more likely in reading the series..

For my list I just left the bill SN's as they are in the FBI list but made a notation..

 

The big problem we have is the lack of the original random order as given to Cooper.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And when you two finish figuring out the shade of green used in the printing of the Cooper bills, and the exact number of each one, and in what order they were given to Cooper...

This will add to the case exactly HOW again? Those bills were probably chopped to shreds decades ago at the Bureau of Printing and Engraving in DC when they came in worn out. Six months after the bill list was issued, no one was looking for them anymore anyway. 

I don't mean to pick on you guys but to me the whole exercise is pointless.

Of course it's pointless.

that's the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

And when you two finish figuring out the shade of green used in the printing of the Cooper bills, and the exact number of each one, and in what order they were given to Cooper...

This will add to the case exactly HOW again? Those bills were probably chopped to shreds decades ago at the Bureau of Printing and Engraving in DC when they came in worn out. Six months after the bill list was issued, no one was looking for them anymore anyway. 

I don't mean to pick on you guys but to me the whole exercise is pointless.

Not a serious question... Blevins... and mocking others that way is a projection of your own inadequacies.

You don't deserve an explanation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

FBI files claiming Cossey owned the chutes....

This came from Cossey, he did not provide any records... and has expressed a shifting and false story.

 

cosseychuteown.jpeg.b3f8e19d2eebf2a704ed55ae27e68369.jpeg

1069770240_cosseychuteownercopy.jpeg.d0f4cf39c21c63d623ca20bc267d19e3.jpeg

cosseychuteowner.jpeg.4c817ac58dccaaab0bb896ea79cc0712.jpeg

 

Cossey claimed his chute left in the plane was returned,,, a lie..

 

seatimesoct1976.jpeg.5ebef3da2b482c4374b7f9b5c21e1d83.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

But Snowmman...that is not a very GOOD point. ¬¬ (*smiles*) 

How about doing the right thing by Sheridan and his family before Christmas comes? Now there is certainly a point to that. Dump that book from Lulu, send me the PDF to work with, tell me privately how to contact a member of his family to set up the direct royalty payments to their PayPal account, and as Spike Lee once said, Do The Right Thing. I will redesign the cover to something professional, tweak it here and there as I have done with sixty other books I have edited in my career, and release it at the trade rate worldwide through Ingram/Lightning Source. His family will collect on that book for years to come. I will pay all the expenses to do this and the 12 bucks a year to keep the book in Ingram's print/shipping database. Sheridan deserves this and so does his family. It's a crazy book, I know. But with proper editing it makes a profound statement about the Vietnam War. I understand why you did what you did, and I know you did it with the best of intentions and just wanted to put it into print for him before he died. I understand that. When I edit a book, I don't hack and slash it to pieces. I just make the author look better on paper. 

there is no book on lulu

It's on amazon. kindle direct publishing. They print it when you order it.

https://www.amazon.com/Idiots-Frightful-Laughter-Sheridan-Peterson/dp/1791731708

643 pages. Published 12/21/18
7 x 1.45 x 10 inches
ISBN-10 1791731708

Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam/Trump. Sheridan's cynical predictions were kind of spot-on.

It's kind of amazing that you're so obsessed with your personal definition of value-add. I think you have to accept that the way you describe value-add is not necessarily a value-add to someone else. "What has value" is a thing to come to grips with.

It's not a crazy book. It was something important to Sheridan. Most people could not string that many words together in any sensible way. I mean, I've scanned your book. I can't see how you have any standing, in comparison, to comment on another author. Really. That's opinion as a reader.

 

Edited by snowmman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't "have" anything on Amazon.

You're attacking me like I'm some member of a club you're in...i.e. some kind of author club.  I don't identify as any of that. I'm a reader.

I'm just saying as a reader, it doesn't seem to me like you're a super good author. Sure that's criticism, but it's part of what comes with the terriory.

I'm just saying, that you going on and on about claiming you're a great author and publisher....well, to make it simple, I don't think you are.

You're the one who brings up your "experience" etc as some kind of claim to skill. I'm just saying I don't thing you're skilled, from my point of view.

Let's just let this lie. This is even more pointless (discussing your skills as a writer/publisher). 

Good luck though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

please stop. If you're motivated to attack me, fine. But you've done that whole route already, so no new information. You're just saying the same thing over and over again.

You asked me to do something. I tried to tell you I'm not interested in listening to your beseeching.

Let it rest. I'm only replying because I'm trying to be a more decent human being.

I'm not going to reply after this. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

But with proper editing it makes a profound statement about the Vietnam War.

So would that still be Sheridan's statement, or yours?

 

12 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

...tweak it here and there...

Pretty sure I already know the answer, you don't need to reply. Although I'm sure you will...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

 

Snowmman says my account of the RED X on the dummy chute.. is not fully accurate, not sure what that means.


I have it right.. it was a BLACK X.

There was no red x.. it is a myth.


1984
Page 17 of Tosaw book. 

Emrich noted that one of the chutes he had chosen had a big black X painted on the casing and wondered what it meant. But there was no time to lose and he handed the two chutes to the officer and quickly departed.

 

2003 article updates for 2010 (2003 article text the same "marked with a large “X” and red closing flaps")

There was no red X.. this reports an X with red closing flaps.

https://uspa.org/p/Article/the-secrets-of-db-cooper-part-one-notorious-flight-305

"Belly-Mount Reserves
Investigators also discovered that in his rush to grab the rigs, the skydiver in the loft accidentally grabbed the drop zone’s dummy reserve, marked with a large “X” and red closing flaps. The DZ used the dummy reserve for students to practice deploying the reserve by scooping the canopy out of the container and throwing it in the air and over their heads.

Cossey explained, “For the dummy rig, I cut the reserve in half and sewed the panels together so that when the student threw it out, I could just fold it up and put it back in the container in half the time. That reserve was half the density of a regular reserve, and it was obvious to anyone with experience that it wasn’t a normal reserve.” Nonetheless, the regular reserve remained in the aircraft, and the dummy marked with an X was gone. Cossey personally thought Cooper removed the dummy reserve, stuffed the cash in its container and wore that on his chest as he jumped.
"

Image from 2003 article..

2003novparachutist.jpeg.79642c167a0ab3b59a4a326398acde89.jpeg

 

2007 "realized that one of them — marked with an X — was used only for classroom demonstrations. "
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/695232501/Cold-DB-Cooper-case-gets-resurrected.html



Jan 26, 2009 on DZ (the big red X appears) A combination of an X and red flaps..

"It was marked with a big red X, but was grabbed by the FBI, who were let in by an airport staffer who had a key."




2013
Step daughter of former employee Linn Emrick talks about the chutes, mentions the big X on one (no colour), Relevant part starts at 2:30 in video

 

"Linn went over to the clubhouse and chose two chest or reserve parachutes the backpacks had been provided by another party but they needed the reserve chutes, Linn found those and as the story goes one of them had a big X on it the front and he wasn’t sure what that meant. Later he found out that was called a dummy chute that was one that wasn’t functional at all, used for training purposes."

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

 

okay. there are two accounts of an X

Tosaw said a black X

Where did Tosaw get his information about color? It's not in the fbi files we have.

I would say all we know is that it likely had an X on it. Correct.

I don't know why you're so adamant, flyjack, on this. It doesn't seem like settled fact (yet) to me. If it does to you, that's fine.

Edited by snowmman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
15 minutes ago, snowmman said:

okay. there are two accounts of an X

Tosaw said a black X

Where did Tosaw get his information about color? It's not in the fbi files we have.

I would say all we know is that it likely had an X on it. Correct.

I don't know why you're so adamant, flyjack, on this. It doesn't seem like settled fact (yet) to me. If it does to you, that's fine.

Odd that the Emrich stepdaughter account is that Lynn didn't know what the X was for. 

He owns the place, and he doesn't know what the X means? Sounds like she's fuzzing the story a bit? Don't know.

Skyjack: can you summarize those articles to a timeline.

It seems like Tosaw's is the earliest account? 
Seems like there needs to be something to corroborate his black X account. (where did he find out?)

EDIT: and then another account has an unnamed skydiver grabbing the reserves? not Emrich. So that makes the stepdaughter account seem false? or ??

Edited by snowmman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

"It was marked with a big red X, but was grabbed by the FBI, who were let in by an airport staffer who had a key."

Who picked up the reserves? Was it FBI or police (state) 
I forget. I don't think it was the FBI, was it?

If it wasn't the FBI, then that account starts seeming debatable, since parts of it might be incorrect?

 

The other article almost seems to imply some "skydiver" grabbed the reserves? like Cossey (but it wasn't Cossey)

Edited by snowmman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the Parachutist account might be most factual. It might be based on an interview of Cossey?
 

"Investigators also discovered that in his rush to grab the rigs, the skydiver in the loft accidentally grabbed the drop zone’s dummy reserve, marked with a large “X” and red closing flaps. "

 

Maybe it had a large black X AND red flaps. If that's true, one can imagine a bad memory of that i.e. red X vs black X and red flaps.

Tosaw said nothing about the flaps, so Tosaw account doesn't go against black X and red flaps.

It's all not clear to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is clear... and it is in a timeline.

It is not in the FBI files, a myth... once these things take hold they are tough to shake. Another big one is that Cooper initially asked for aft airstairs down on takeoff, he didn't. Lowered in flight. Everyone still has that wrong.

Tosaw's book is the first account and a "black X"..

The "red X" did not appear until posted on DZ after the parachutist article "a large X and red closing flaps"

After that it kept getting repeated,,  a red X with no source.

There is no credible account of a red X,,, 

Emrich picked out the chutes. Yes, it is very odd that he would grab an obvious dummy. Rataczak thinks it was intentional. Maybe.. who knows.

He first looked for a pair of older-type chutes because, Emrick said, he knew he would "never get them back again." He didn't have two of the older chute, so Emrick gave them training parachutes.

UNKNOWN to him at the time was the fact that one was for ground training only and was non-functional. the State Patrol picked up the chutes...

635588589_Issaquah20Press2012_1_7120Linn20Emrick.jpg.6af9b2938e750de129d740ccb04b6aaf.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/28/2013 at 3:28 PM, BobBurnham said:

Hi G,

I was one of the mainstays at Issaquah when this DB Cooper thing happened. The TV crew was all over our clubhouse and I was packing a reserve and they filmed me and used it as backdrop for the story on the news.

I almost lived at the clubhouse at the time, but I wasn't there the night all this went down, and it's been more than 40 years ago. What I remember hearing was that the WSP drove out to the clubhouse and picked up parachutes (must have been the reserves) and took them to the airport. Linn Emrich ? lived at the field and so he must have got them out of the equipment room. We had that prop reserve all sewn up so that when we had students practicing throwing it out that we didn't have a big mess to untangle every time. My memory is that there was so much material removed from it that it was obvious that it was fake. Linn would have known that, so that is one aspect of this that I don't understand.

Coss did business with a lot of aircraft owners and packed their rigs for them both at home and at the club. So the backpacks must have come from him and may have been owned by the other guy in this story. That's all I can think.

Coss was a great guy and will be missed. I really hope it turns out to be a mistake and this was all an accident, but it doesn't sound like it. I was looking for more information when I came across this thread, so I registered and couldn't resist adding some notes even if I don't really have a good recollection of the facts in this.

Thanks,
Bob

Linn Emrich must have known it was a dummy reserve...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Emrich picked out the chutes. Yes, it is very odd that he would grab an obvious dummy. Rataczak thinks it was intentional. Maybe.. who knows.

 

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

Linn Emrich must have known it was a dummy reserve..

 

There is no way that he didn't. Emrich - jumper, instructor, owned the dz which includes the student and training gear...  Any other jumper who may have been staying on site would either be a rigger, instructor, or possibly a young jumper who went through training there...  Any one of them would instantly know that training dummy from across the room, in the dark, half asleep, and fully drunk.

I, too, have speculated that it may have been intentional. At the time, no one would have any idea of Cooper or the folk lore that he would become. But a lot of hijackings were taking place by terrorist types with political motives. So Emrich may well have given the cheapest, most replaceable gear he could, and who cares if the guy goes in. 'Take me to Havana? Here's your Havana!'

 

And the thought of someone just opening the door and letting the cops grab what they may is totally unlikely, because if Emrich wasn't there, someone who jumped there would be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

 

 

There is no way that he didn't. Emrich - jumper, instructor, owned the dz which includes the student and training gear...  Any other jumper who may have been staying on site would either be a rigger, instructor, or possibly a young jumper who went through training there...  Any one of them would instantly know that training dummy from across the room, in the dark, half asleep, and fully drunk.

I, too, have speculated that it may have been intentional. At the time, no one would have any idea of Cooper or the folk lore that he would become. But a lot of hijackings were taking place by terrorist types with political motives. So Emrich may well have given the cheapest, most replaceable gear he could, and who cares if the guy goes in. 'Take me to Havana? Here's your Havana!'

 

And the thought of someone just opening the door and letting the cops grab what they may is totally unlikely, because if Emrich wasn't there, someone who jumped there would be.

Let me game this out.. what if...

 

The back chutes had rigger seals..

I assume the good front chute did as well but haven't seen confirmation.

What if Cooper checked the cards and seals to ensure no beepers. The dummy with no card/seal gets tossed. Why else would he toss or take the dummy.

Maybe, Emrich picked out that chute for the FBI to put in a beeper undetected..

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

49 49