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DB Cooper

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'Some of what you may have read was contributed by an agent who was penalized for inaccurate information he provide on this site & to the public....he is still FBI, but not involved with Cooper.

His postings on this thread - distracted & harmed their investigation...'


You are referring to Special Agent Larry Carr, aka username 'Ckret'. I don't know how he could have harmed it. He simply went public and was finally driven off Dropzone by Cooper Nuts.

They are many and legend.


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Here is a link to the FBI's official website: http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2007/december/dbcooper_123107

The FBI states on their website "Cooper was no expert skydiver" and "The hijacker had no help on the ground, either" and "As many agents before him, Carr thinks it highly unlikely that Cooper survived the jump."

Now unfortunately, my mind is bound by common sense and reason, so I find myself asking this question: "What if the FBI is right?" And if the FBI is correct, wouldn't we be looking for a missing person who flew under the radar for many years and has some physical features which resemble the FBI Cooper sketches, but looks just enough off to remain hidden? Wouldn't we be looking for a "Dick Lepsy" or another missing person just like him?

As for the FBI, maybe they're sick and tired of, ;) "Coopersleuths" ;) telling them how wrong they are. I agree with Robert, Marla devastated the chances of ever resolving this case, but many others have joined her in souring the milk of the FBI's investigation.

Because of the the ;)Coopersleuth ;) shenanigans of the past, the FBI will more than likely never investigate Dick Lepsy. And sadly, there is no known connection between Lepsy and the Cooper suspect, but of course, there wouldn't be, would there? Otherwise he would have been looked at already.

If you read this forum, I'm kindly asking for your help. I can't do this on my own, I need your help. I want to add Dick Lepsy to the list of people that have been officially eliminated by the FBI as Cooper suspects (see attached).

This is not a personal attack against anyone, or their beliefs. I believe that if we were all in the same room together enjoying a beer or coffee, we would all get along smashingly and would have quite a conversation. Maybe someday this will happen, and who knows, we may even solve a few missing person cases between now and then.

Ross

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PLEASE REMOVE THAT PICTURE OF WEBER - IF YOU INSIST ON USING A PICTURE WEBER USE ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE HIM - THAT PICTURE lOOKS NOTHING LIKE WEBER. i HAVE ACCUMMULATED PICTURES OF HIM OVER AN 18 YR PERIOD OF TIME.

TRY ONE OF THESE - THE PHOTOS

YOU ARE RUDE TO COME INTO THIS AND USE A PICTURE THAT DOES NOT REPRESENT WEBER'S APPEARANCE AT ALL IN 1971. THE FBI USED THAT ONE AND THEY USED IT ONLY TO HIDE THE SECRETS THEY ARE AWARE OFA PICTURE USED ONLY TO DISCREDIT WEBER AS A SUSPECT - I KNOW OF NO ONE WHO WHO COULD EVEN IMAGINE HIS EVER LOOKING LIKE THE PICTURE YOU USED & THE ONE THE FBI USED.

ALL PART OF THE GRAND COVER-UP BY THE GOVERNMENT AND THE FBI.

NOT ONE PERSON WHO KNEW WEBER THOUGHT THE PICTURE U USED COULD EVEN HAVE BEEN WEBER. THAT PICTURE WAS A CONTRIVED EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE FBI TO CONCEAL HIS REAL APPEARANCE.

NOT ONE PERSON WHO KNEW WEBER PERSONALLY EVER KNEW HIM TO LOOK LIKE THAT.

THE USE OF THAT PIC BY THE FBI WAS CONTRIVED AND PART OF THE COVER-UP FOR THE DELIBERATE MISTAKES THEY MADE.

WHY DON'T YOU USE THE ONE THE FBI DELIBERATELY CONCEALED FROM THE PUBLIC - THE JEFFERSON PICTURE - ONE THAT SHOCKED EVEN ME AND ALL OF HIS FRIENDS AND ONE THAT THE MOST CLOSELY MATCHES THE COMPOSITE FOR THEY EYES. NOTE HE HAD MISSING TEETH AND HIS HEAD & CHIN WAS DOWN - THE TILT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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TOO PAINFUL TO USE MY HAND OR TO WASTE MY VALUABLE TIME ON A GAME PLAYER AND THAT IS WHAT YOU AND BLEVINS ARE.

YOU ARE JUST SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO AGGRAVATE AND CONTRIVE INFORMATION.

I TRIED TO BE HELPFUL REGARDING YOUR SUSPECT, BUT IT IS NOW OBVIOUS WHAT YOUR PURPOSE IS IN THIS THREAD.

YOU AND BLEVINS CAN ENJOY EACH OTHERS COMPANY...I HAVE REAL THINGS GOING ON WHICH WILL BE ANNOUNCED IN THE NEAR FUTURE....BUT UNTIL THEN YOU GUYS HAVE A BLAST INTO THE PAST.

I AM JUST GOING TO TRY TO GET WELL ENOUGH TO HANDLE WHAT IS GETTING READ TO HAPPEN.


YOU AND BLEVIN DESERVE EACH OTHER - IT TOOK A FEW POSTING, BUT YOU REVEALED YOURSELF AND YOUR MOTIVES....YOU COULDN'T EVEN USE YOUR REAL NAME.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

PLEASE REMOVE THAT PICTURE OF WEBER - IF YOU INSIST ON USING A PICTURE WEBER USE ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE HIM - THAT PICTURE lOOKS NOTHING LIKE WEBER. i HAVE ACCUMMULATED PICTURES OF HIM OVER AN 18 YR PERIOD OF TIME.

TRY ONE OF THESE - THE PHOTOS

YOU ARE RUDE TO COME INTO THIS AND USE A PICTURE THAT DOES NOT REPRESENT WEBER'S APPEARANCE AT ALL IN 1971. THE FBI USED THAT ONE AND THEY USED IT ONLY TO HIDE THE SECRETS THEY ARE AWARE OFA PICTURE USED ONLY TO DISCREDIT WEBER AS A SUSPECT - I KNOW OF NO ONE WHO WHO COULD EVEN IMAGINE HIS EVER LOOKING LIKE THE PICTURE YOU USED & THE ONE THE FBI USED.

ALL PART OF THE GRAND COVER-UP BY THE GOVERNMENT AND THE FBI.

NOT ONE PERSON WHO KNEW WEBER THOUGHT THE PICTURE U USED COULD EVEN HAVE BEEN WEBER. THAT PICTURE WAS A CONTRIVED EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE FBI TO CONCEAL HIS REAL APPEARANCE.

NOT ONE PERSON WHO KNEW WEBER PERSONALLY EVER KNEW HIM TO LOOK LIKE THAT.

THE USE OF THAT PIC BY THE FBI WAS CONTRIVED AND PART OF THE COVER-UP FOR THE DELIBERATE MISTAKES THEY MADE.

WHY DON'T YOU USE THE ONE THE FBI DELIBERATELY CONCEALED FROM THE PUBLIC - THE JEFFERSON PICTURE - ONE THAT SHOCKED EVEN ME AND ALL OF HIS FRIENDS AND ONE THAT THE MOST CLOSELY MATCHES THE COMPOSITE FOR THEY EYES. NOTE HE HAD MISSING TEETH AND HIS HEAD & CHIN WAS DOWN - THE TILT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED.



Sorry Jo, I apologize. Unfortunately I have lost the ability to edit those posts. To mitigate the damage, I freely admit there are other pictures of your husband that look much more like the Cooper sketches and I made a poor choice in selecting the image I did. My intentions were not to be rude or hurt anybody's feelings. If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

Ross

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'If you read this forum, I'm kindly asking for your help. I can't do this on my own, I need your help. I want to add Dick Lepsy to the list of people that have been officially eliminated by the FBI as Cooper suspects (see attached).

This is not a personal attack against anyone, or their beliefs. I believe that if we were all in the same room together enjoying a beer or coffee, we would all get along smashingly and would have quite a conversation. Maybe someday this will happen, and who knows, we may even solve a few missing person cases between now and then.

Ross'



I will take objection to the idea that Kenny Christiansen has been officially dismissed as a suspect by the FBI. When I inquired with them in May of this year about submitting a much-updated report on Christiansen, they returned my message and asked to see it when it was ready. I told the FBI agent who contacted me that there had been some mistakes made in the original report, and that we had discovered much more about Kenny's financial dealings post-hijacking...including the fact that we now had a certain cooperation with alleged accomplice Bernie Geestman's family.

As I stated previously, the FBI has obviously changed their position on Christiansen to a degree. Their only real 'dismissal' of him was seven years ago after the New York Magazine article by Geoffrey Gray was brought to their attention. The case agent at that time took a look at the article and said Kenny didn't match the description. At that time, nothing was known much about Kenny's friends and close associates, the History Channel had not yet gotten involved, and the investigation into Kenny's life by yours truly and PI Skipp Porteous was still in the future.

Four years later (2011)...the History Channel program Decoded airs on Christiansen. The Geoff Gray book Skyjack comes out. Our book is also released. Later that year, I contact the FBI and ask them if Kenny has been dismissed as a suspect. The agent calls me back. (Yes, this is a rerun) He says, NO. Kenny has NOT been dismissed, and in fact the Seattle FBI has not even investigated him for the crime at all. He says some agents in the Seattle office think Kenny's a good suspect. Others aren't sure, or believe there are better suspects. Considering most of the evidence on Christiansen is circumstantial, or by witness testimony, I think it is a fair answer.

2012: I contact the FBI again and ask them if the DNA samples taken from Lyle Christiansen by two Minneapolis FBI agents have ever been profiled and compared to the tie sample profile. Two days later I get a response. No, and no one knows where the samples are now. (Lyle was visited by the Minneapolis FBI after he went public. They took DNA swabs from him at that time.)

Early 2013: A 28-page report is created by the staff of AB of Seattle and sent to the Seattle FBI office. But the report was a bit rushed and there were a few mistakes in it, although the witness testimony parts are solid. We didn't know all the details on the purchase of Kenny's house, and had no confirmation beyond Dawn Androsko's word that she received a $5,000 loan from Kenny five months after the hijacking. We end up pulling the report from public view and going over it line by line and doing new interviews. By May 2014, we are approaching some of Bernie Geestman's family members about his possible involvement in the hijacking, and additional witness information on where he was over the week of the hijacking. They are reasonably cooperative. I give them a draft copy of the updated report on Christiansen. One family member who was actually at the Jones house for Thanksgiving (place where Kenny and Bernie were supposed to show) confirms that Bernie indeed went missing that week. This matches Helen Jones' testimony that she knew the men were together after she spoke to Kenny Christiansen at the Sumner Laundromat a few weeks after the crime.

September 2014: I interview the son of Ann and Joe Grimes (deceased), the couple who sold Kenny the house, and show him all the documents on the sale, including a mention of a promissory note and a copy of Kenny's mortgage through SeaFirst (leveraged with the note). I also show him that Kenny took eighteen years to pay off the $7,500 mortgage to SeaFirst. I ask if his parents were the kind of people who would wait that long to get paid off on a promissory note for a house. He says 'absolutely not'. He and his sister (she keeps the family records) are currently providing me with additional family papers and documents detailing more about the sale of the house. If it turns out that Kenny paid off both the note and made a 5K loan to the alleged accomplice's sister, and that this was all paid in less than a year after the hijacking, it adds up to around three times Kenny's yearly income and is at the very least, suspicious. On a side note, although alleged accomplice Bernie Geestman denied knowing anything about the sale of the house, or who put Kenny and the Grimes couple together...Geestman was the Best Man at the Grimes wedding. We believe he was lying, as he has done so before many times. We also discovered recently that the Geestmans' left Bonney Lake within a year or two of the hijacking and moved to Oakville, WA and built a house. Margaret served as the Town Clerk for some years and is mentioned in newspaper articles.

Geestman's ex-wife Margaret Ann Miller (Geestman) has already pointed to her former husband as a direct accomplice in the hijacking, but denied Kenny's involvement until the final two interviews. But she refused to give details on exactly HOW it all went down. She says they went to Oakville to where the Airstream trailer was parked, and returned a week later. But she will say nothing else. Just over a year after the books and the Decoded show come out...she sells her ranch to the State of Washington's Fish and Game department for almost a half-million dollars and leaves town...instructing the bank officer who handled the sale and her lawyer to not reveal where she was going. She has not been seen or heard from since, although her best friend in Brewster, WA probably knows where she is. This information is being included in the new report on Christiansen, although I only have the friend's address in Brewster, not her phone number, which is unlisted. Otherwise, I would have called her already.

October 2014: DNA samples arrive at our office, taken by the sheriff in Morris, MN from Lyle Christiansen. These samples, which remain sealed in our offices, will be submitted and a profile done. The results of this profile will be submitted along with the new report on Christiansen, which now runs more than sixty pages. Three people outside our offices are now in possession of this report, minus the profile results. The completed report will be submitted to the Seattle FBI in January 2015, after we finish a couple of more interviews and wait for the results of the DNA profile.

People have asked me to stop being so secretive about Kenny. So...there you are. That is what we are doing. :)
On Lepsy, I think the best idea is not to waste time with posters in airports, etc. You should write a basic script, prepare some pictures for display, and do a YouTube video on him with keyword DB Cooper in there somewhere. You will reach many more people doing this. You can also prepare your computer to display some pictures next to you in the video, advancing them with your mouse to show them and make your points on Lepsy.

As far as the FBI's opinion on whether Cooper lived or died, they have made mistakes before in this case. They were sure Richard Floyd McCoy was the guy. They thought Marla was a viable witness. But they didn't start saying they thought Cooper died until AFTER the Tina Bar money was found...something that Cooper may have been hoping for all along. There is one final point I want to make, and this is directed to EVERYONE who follows the case:

Be assured that we will discover the truth on Kenny Christiansen one way or another, whether he turns out to be Cooper or not. We WILL find out the truth. And in the end...that is the only thing that matters here.
The truth. Not trying to stuff a round peg into a square hole to make a cheap buck. The truth on him is what is required. Anything else is bullshit.


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If not over 5 hours you should be able to edit the photos.

The photos I suggested are just 3 of many more. Frankly I think the concealed JEFFERSON prison file is the best one to use - because it was deliberately concealed even by the agent who came to this thread and posted under the name of ckret.

FBI in a public forum, but NOT posting the pictures with the prison file made public by an FBI AGENT in 2004.

I BEGGED FOR THE PHOTOS, BUT THEY WOULD NOT BE FORTHCOMING UNTIL Shutter made them available in this this thread - photo's the FBI CONCEALED - but, somehow Shutter got them....2013 - that is a long long time to conceal prison photos....9 yrs the FBI concealed the photos from his widow and from the public!

Even the authorities with the prison system & the state departments were surprised there WAS NO PICTURE attached to the file in 2004. They where very nice & research all records & provided me the attorneys use by Weber...but they were long gone. I had to keep my source confidential....Now 10 yrs had gone by! I can expose how I acquired the information.

Do you not find it strange - 2004 and there is NO photo of Weber on the sites - and my guy WENT all the way to the prison for a copy of the files only to be turned away AFTER he got there....by WHOSE orders?

That FBI agent who came to this site was a FRONT to get rid of me or to shut me up.....WHY?

READ back.

You do know Ross is a name associated with Weber? ;)

But, what is in a name? Ross is a common name......

an exwife, stepchildren and multiple grandchildren - perhaps great grandchildren by now....

I may be old and sick but I am not senile YET!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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KENNEY CHRISTIAN HAS NEVER BEEN A SUSPECT AND HE NEVER WILL BE!

1. NOT TALL ENOUGH
2. HAZEL EYES
3. HAIR LINE TOO HIGH
4. DID NOT HAVE A RUDDY COMPLEXION
5. WORKED FOR THE AIRLINE
6. FINANCIALS CONTRIVED BY BLEVINS.
7. NO WITNESS ID PROVIDED
8. PLUS NOT ONE OF THE CONTRIVED WITNESSES HAS COME FORWARD TO VOUCH FOR THE STORY AS TOLD BY BLEVINS.

9. BLEVINS YOU CAN GO ON AND ON TILL THE END OF TIME - BUT IN THE END YOU WILL LOOSE AND IF FRAUD CAN BE PROVEN - YOU LOOSE EVEN MORE.

10. ARE YOU SURE YOUR "WITNESSES" HAVE NOT ALREADY PROVIDED THE FBI AND/OR OTHERS WITH WRITTEN AFFIDAVITS REGARDING YOUR REPRESENTATION OF THEIR WORDS.

IF I WERE U - I WOULD BE VERY AFRAID! A LAWSUIT & A MOVIE & A BOOK BLASTING THE STORY TOLD BY BLEVINS COULD & WOULD BE VERY PROFITABLE.

MAYBE IT IS ALREADY IN PROGRESS.

BLAST INTO THE PAST BECOMES DUST WITH JUST ONE WITNESS COMING FORWARD TO DISCREDIT YOU.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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MAKE OF THAT WHAT YOU WILL, BUT IT IS ALL OVER! THE DEED HAS BEEN DONE!

BLEVINS WAS PROVIDED AN OUT, BUT HE CHOSE TO CONTINUE HIS FARCE & USE THE DZ TO ADVERTISE HIS BOOK OF FALSE INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN DISCREDITED MANY TIMES.

CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS GOT FED UP AFTER RECEIVING SEVERAL PAGES (MORE LIKE A BOOK) OF BLEVINS STORY THAT WAS CONTRIVED FROM DAY ONE. ELDER ABUSE IS AGAINST THE LAW & THE FACT IT WAS DONE FOR PROFIT & FAME - MAKES IT OUTLANDISH.

Perhaps a major senior group has stepped into the arena to end this type of exploitation - you think?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

MAKE OF THAT WHAT YOU WILL, BUT IT IS ALL OVER! THE DEED HAS BEEN DONE!

BLEVINS WAS PROVIDED AN OUT, BUT HE CHOSE TO CONTINUE HIS FARCE & USE THE DZ TO ADVERTISE HIS BOOK OF FALSE INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN DISCREDITED MANY TIMES.

CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS GOT FED UP AFTER RECEIVING SEVERAL PAGES (MORE LIKE A BOOK) OF BLEVINS STORY THAT WAS CONTRIVED FROM DAY ONE. ELDER ABUSE IS AGAINST THE LAW & THE FACT IT WAS DONE FOR PROFIT & FAME - MAKES IT OUTLANDISH.

Perhaps a major senior group has stepped into the arena to end this type of exploitation - you think?



Excuse me, but you are misinformed. All the people I have interviewed regarding the Cooper case or Kenny Christiansen were approached in a polite manner and treated with respect. You don't have a clue what you are talking about regarding the way I do interviews. As far as 'profit and fame' I have neither from investigating KC. As you know, I turned down $2,500 for my appearance on Decoded, and another $1,000 from Adrenaline Hunter when they had me on for the KC episode. People seem to ignore that a lot, but they should ask themselves WHY I would do that when I drive an 88 Nissan pickup and scrub floors for a living. Because it goes to credibility. I don't want money. I want the frickin' truth.

The problem HERE is really one of evidence. You have had all this time, many more years than I have, to at least come up with ONE SOLID WITNESS or ONE PIECE OF VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE pointing to the idea that Duane Weber could be the hijacker. How long? More than a decade?

And still there is nothing, nada, zip, negatory, zero.

On the other hand, I often name people directly and provide the towns where they live, just in case someone ever decides to get in their car and check these people out for themselves. Nothing is a mystery, and I don't hold anything back except peoples' personal contact information. That can be discovered with a Visa card and any number of services on the internet.

Senior abuse my eye. When I would drive up to interview Margie Geestman, all but the first one were arranged in advance by MAIL. (No phone at the ranch) She freely agreed to the interviews. We did a lot of discussion walking around her ranch, feeding her horse, her dog, whatever. Sometimes I brought food and snacks for the dog. One of the things I discovered long before I ever knew about Kenny was about doing interviews. Manners and courtesy get you a lot further with people than haranguing them, such as Bruce Smith has been known to do occasionally. It is not my fault that the polite approach often gets people to trust you, to open up, to talk to you about things they've never discussed before.

Why are you so afraid? I've already admitted multiple times that I don't know if Kenny was Cooper. How many times do I have to repeat that? I just don't know for sure.

There is nothing wrong with trying to figure out the truth on Kenny. There is no 'molding' of him into the hijacker. There is no shoving square pegs into round holes to somehow 'convince' the public he was Cooper. There is only WHAT IS TRUE about him. And I see no problem with finding out. I am not afraid of being wrong here. This is actually the most likely possibility...that Kenny was NOT Cooper. But I will find out, of this I can assure you. :)


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Robert99

Ross, this evening you have seen for yourself the reasons why the "other site" was created.

Robert99



You are recruiting. The 'other site'? This is the place where some of the creators claim they did it to 'get away from Blevins,' yet many of the posts are ABOUT me, including some outright LIES. Of course, I haven't tried looking in a week or two now, so I haven't caught up on the slander lately. ;) You'll have to keep me updated.

Then...your administrator decided he didn't even want me LOOKING at those posts. Can we say 'paranoid?' Some of you guys are as two-faced as they come. A couple of others were banned from Dropzone for personal attacks, no matter what bullshit story they gave you as the real reason.

This is why the Dropzone thread on Cooper is Numero Uno by far and gets millions of views. There is nothing inherently wrong with another site on Cooper, but that particular one is a bit phony. Maybe Shutter should post up a Prime Directive like this:

Quote

'The name of Blevins shall be stricken from all monuments and obelisks...'

(paraphrased from the film The Ten Commandments)



But you guys can't stop talking about me, even if you tried. And you are afraid to let me defend myself, or even to view what is being said about me. At one point, your admin Shutter blocked all access to the site from cell phones, libraries, schools, workplace networks, proxies, and VPN's. Just to keep me from seeing additional lies being posted by user Galen Cook, aka 'Coopsnoop'.

Blocking out millions of potential visitors just to keep me from looking at posts made about me shows the public you don't believe in free exchange. I see the site finally backed off on that approach,
but in my book you're still mostly a bunch of phonies. You like to talk bad about people without the subject being allowed to defend themselves, which frankly...is un-American for sure.

Good thing Dropzone exists, isn't it? B|


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RobertMBlevins

***Ross, this evening you have seen for yourself the reasons why the "other site" was created.

Robert99



You are recruiting. The 'other site"? This is the place where some of the creators claim they did it to 'get away from Blevins,' yet many of the posts are ABOUT me, including some outright LIES. Of course, I haven't tried looking in a week or two now, so I haven't caught up on the slander lately. ;) You'll have to keep me updated.

Then...your administrator decided he didn't even want me LOOKING at those posts. Can we say 'paranoid?' Some of you guys are as two-faced as they come. A couple of others were banned from Dropzone for personal attacks, no matter what bullshit story they gave you as the real reason.

This is why the Dropzone thread on Cooper is Numero Uno by far and gets millions of views. There is nothing inherently wrong with another site on Cooper, but that particular one is a bit phony. Maybe Shutter should post up a Prime Directive like this:

Quote

'The name of Blevins shall be stricken from all monuments and obelisks...'

(paraphrased from the film The Ten Commandments)



But you guys can't stop talking about me, even if you tried. Bunch of phonies. B|

Blevins, your EGO is out of control tonight. And the earth DOES NOT revolve around you. Or Jo Weber either.

Dream on, both of you.

Robert99

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'Blevins, your EGO is out of control tonight. And the earth DOES NOT revolve around you. Or Jo Weber either.

Dream on, both of you.

Robert99'



I am not Jo Weber. This is not about ego. It is about the truth. As I said, anything else is bullshit.
My previous comments on this subject are MORE than legit. You just don't like hearing the truth, which is frankly...not my problem. :)


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"At one point, your admin Shutter blocked all access to the site from cell phones, libraries, schools, workplace networks, proxies, and VPN's. Just to keep me from seeing additional lies being posted by user Galen Cook, aka 'Coopsnoop'."

You live in the past Robert. those measure were taken because of you, and because of you others had to pay a price! you whined in 2013 about comments made in 2011.


Schools are on my site all the time. no blocks are in place except the blocking of Robert Blevins. you can see it "anytime I wish" so stop the whining Robert. take the hair dryer off your head. this forum is suppose to be about DB Cooper, and not what transpires anywhere else! that's all you talk about here. Gossip Bobby should be the new name for Robert Blevins.

Georger can no longer post here, but someone is making a lot of comments about him. he can't defend himself either, so deal with it Bobby! Georger isn't whining about it like you do!

I wouldn't flatter yourself about what people say about you Robert. it's not a form of bashing like done here. it's reality about you. the main point is that you are not there to clutter up the conversation as you do here. goal has been reached :)
where is the administration here? plenty of the rules set in place here are in violation! drifting off topic, personal attacks run rampant here!

Google is constantly crawling the site. it's now showing up in Cooper related searches. new members are registering! it's not working Robert, it's helping....Thank You :)
Unlike Frazier Crane (nobody's listening) it makes them curious :)
"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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18E

What about motive? I'm not going to take the time to read each and every post up to present to refresh what has been said about a motive, but here are some that I have listed:

1. Mentally disturbed, (obvious if you are going to jump out of a perfectly good airplane into southern Washington, in the rain, at night).
2. Retribution
3. Diversion
4. Fame
5. Government operations
6. Covetousness of $

My conclusions:
1. Likely not mentally ill. He seemed rationale in what he said and how he interacted with the Stews. Also, he showed strong signs of planning, coordination, decision-making, and reason. (Doesn't mean your not crazy, but he had a handle on acting rationale in context).
2. Retribution - made one statement to Tina about getting back. This was weak and really there is no connection. Undetermined.
3. Diversion - undetermined.
4. Fame - he never enjoyed it as defined by the world giving you acclaim and adulation and personally enjoying it. Determined as not a motive.
5. Govt Operator - demonstrated signs of military training and unique competencies that are learned behaviors familiar to Govt operators. Undetermined.
6. Covet money. He got the 200K. At least linked to a motive.



The following narrative is merely conjecture, but could explain a couple details of the skyjacking:

A man suffering a midlife crisis decides to abandon his wife, children and job and abscond to Mexico with a couple thousand dollars of his employers money and possibly a female accomplice.

After spending some time out west, the romance wears off and the mans paramour starts missing her family and friends and decides to head back home, leaving the man stranded in an unfamiliar locale, alone. He cannot return home, because he will be arrested and the embarrassment of his predicament is overwhelming.

A couple years after fleeing his home, the holiday season approaches and the man is low on funds, missing his children and family and becomes extremely depressed. The thought of going through Thanksgiving with strangers again gnaws at his stomach and he becomes despondent. And Christmas alone again? Terrible.

About a week and a half before Thanksgiving, the man reads in newspapers about a bumbling skyjacker named Paul Cini. This clown Cini even makes the national TV news. Broke, hungry and alone, the man who is unable to ever go back home and is at the end of his rope thinks to himself "If I'm going to go out, I'm going to go out big."

Improving on Cini's fiasco, the very intelligent man comes up with a plan. If he succeeds or not does not matter because he has nothing, therefore he has nothing to lose. If he dies or is captured, at least he will be famous and get some of the attention he thinks he deserves. If he gets away, he'll have plenty of money to repay his employer if he returns home or at least live on the run a little more luxuriously.

The lonely man's mind is set. He does not care if he dies, at least his loneliness with end, and he will be famous. And if he lives, he'll be rich and will have redeemed himself in his eyes.

The lonely man sits in the plane, giving orders. He is calm. He accepts his fate. At the end of his flight he steps to the rear of the plane jumps out into oblivion, into anonymity.


If Richard Floyd McCoy, with his vast experience in pressure filled situations, was nervous, sweating bullets, and curt with the aircrew, then what would be the mindset of a man in a similar situation that was calm, didn't perspire and was polite throughout the event? Maybe someone who knew he probably wasn't going to make it and was fine with that.

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NMIWrecks

***What about motive? I'm not going to take the time to read each and every post up to present to refresh what has been said about a motive, but here are some that I have listed:

1. Mentally disturbed, (obvious if you are going to jump out of a perfectly good airplane into southern Washington, in the rain, at night).
2. Retribution
3. Diversion
4. Fame
5. Government operations
6. Covetousness of $

My conclusions:
1. Likely not mentally ill. He seemed rationale in what he said and how he interacted with the Stews. Also, he showed strong signs of planning, coordination, decision-making, and reason. (Doesn't mean your not crazy, but he had a handle on acting rationale in context).
2. Retribution - made one statement to Tina about getting back. This was weak and really there is no connection. Undetermined.
3. Diversion - undetermined.
4. Fame - he never enjoyed it as defined by the world giving you acclaim and adulation and personally enjoying it. Determined as not a motive.
5. Govt Operator - demonstrated signs of military training and unique competencies that are learned behaviors familiar to Govt operators. Undetermined.
6. Covet money. He got the 200K. At least linked to a motive.



The following narrative is merely conjecture, but could explain a couple details of the skyjacking:

A man suffering a midlife crisis decides to abandon his wife, children and job and abscond to Mexico with a couple thousand dollars of his employers money and possibly a female accomplice.

After spending some time out west, the romance wears off and the mans paramour starts missing her family and friends and decides to head back home, leaving the man stranded in an unfamiliar locale, alone. He cannot return home, because he will be arrested and the embarrassment of his predicament is overwhelming.

A couple years after fleeing his home, the holiday season approaches and the man is low on funds, missing his children and family and becomes extremely depressed. The thought of going through Thanksgiving with strangers again gnaws at his stomach and he becomes despondent. And Christmas alone again? Terrible.

About a week and a half before Thanksgiving, the man reads in newspapers about a bumbling skyjacker named Paul Cini. This clown Cini even makes the national TV news. Broke, hungry and alone, the man who is unable to ever go back home and is at the end of his rope thinks to himself "If I'm going to go out, I'm going to go out big."

Improving on Cini's fiasco, the very intelligent man comes up with a plan. If he succeeds or not does not matter because he has nothing, therefore he has nothing to lose. If he dies or is captured, at least he will be famous and get some of the attention he thinks he deserves. If he gets away, he'll have plenty of money to repay his employer if he returns home or at least live on the run a little more luxuriously.

The lonely man's mind is set. He does not care if he dies, at least his loneliness with end, and he will be famous. And if he lives, he'll be rich and will have redeemed himself in his eyes.

The lonely man sits in the plane, giving orders. He is calm. He accepts his fate. At the end of his flight he steps to the rear of the plane jumps out into oblivion, into anonymity.


If Richard Floyd McCoy, with his vast experience in pressure filled situations, was nervous, sweating bullets, and curt with the aircrew, then what would be the mindset of a man in a similar situation that was calm, didn't perspire and was polite throughout the event? Maybe someone who knew he probably wasn't going to make it and was fine with that.

In August of 2011, the insightful Farflung, queried a similar situation about another "missing person".

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4174301#4174301
Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

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YOU are the one who wrote a book and YOU haven't proved one word of it and your witnesses dispute the things you have stated!

ONE thing for sure - I NEVER tried to profit off of Cooper - not once. In fact I have depleted my personal funds to research the past of Weber.

YET, not one time did I agree to a book for profit or take monies from others... nor twisted the words of others for my own benefit....as you have DONE over and over and over.

The FBI never stepped up to the plate regarding their mistakes on WEBER - not even an "I'm sorry, we missed that!"

Referencing your story Blevins:
With the information I have & what you posted in the thread & in your book - it is evident you twisted information & miss led your "witnesses". You manuevered seniors and manipulated the words.

Geestman was the only one with enough sense to stand up to you.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I am very very tired and all of you need to realize that certain parties are NOT what they represent themselves to be.

Georger has actually contradicted himself many time - hell, I liked the old goat, but he agitated the hell out of me with his jingle stuff and things totally un COOPER related. There is a MUCH nicer version of Georger in that other place....he still gets things twisted.

Georger like myself is getting old and this battle is just a little too much for us.

Robt 99 - he gets his shorts in a bunch and he is one of the opinionated - I AM NEVER WRONG kind of individuals.

But this thread has become a stage for Blevins so I am going to back down until I am able to make the annoucement regarding what is being done.

If Robt99 was all he claims why has he NOT checked out my claims about Air Park and the man who owned it in 1971.

Why did he not check out Mildred Taylor who used to be Mildred Ford the wife of the Mr. Ford who owned the Air Park and was question in relation to the skyjacking as a suspect.

Georger has a little problem with his date & the money find....the drainage ditch that was not there in 1971 but was there in 2001. Why doesn't he take a trip & speak to Mr. Fazion while he still is alive....or ask one of the crew what Fazion said to Mr. Himmelsbach on the beach that day.,,in 2001 when they did the documentary. In fact I wonder what they did with the footage they didn't use...I expect that might hold some answers.

Himmelsbach mentioned to Fazion that the ditch was NOT there in 1980 and Fazion informed him it was ordered after that....The area I am referencing was EAST of the house in 2001 and just East of the Equipment area.. I think that retention ditch is what eroded the beach - I have been told it has changed a lot.

Since I could not see the house in the recent postings - Perhaps Robt 99 or someone else will tell us if the old white Fazion home from 1979 is still there. It was still there in 2001.

If the house was in the pictures I would be able to understand them more - and I know that house was still there in 1979 & 2001. I base things on what I actually saw...the house, the trees at the parking area, the trees and the fence on the beachside of the house and the equipment to the north east along with a couple of sheds or buildings of some sort.

I do not see these things in the ariels.

Nor to I see dated ariels showing the changes - buildings, sheds, water line, fence - all the land marks I need. The location of the mail box and the fence and the little shed behind the house but on the beachside of the fence where the kept equipment to clean the beach and for the boat.

A HOLE that was there and not there Georger questioned in that other thrad - could be cause by the shed being removed.

The shed was there in 1979 but not in 2001 It was Oct approximately in 1979 when Duane took me there...
If Georger was able to email me maps of the spot he is talking about - I just might have stated the answer to the question he was speculating on.

If someone wanted to email me some actual pics and arials that I could print and resize - I could do over lays and show you were and when the changes I am aware of where locate - what I saw with my own eyes.

I just do not understand the ariels - the house is not there...did it vanish and when did it do this?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Robert99

Ross, this evening you have seen for yourself the reasons why the "other site" was created.

Robert99



Robert 99 - even Jo Weber has little to say - and BLEVINS is a BLEVINATOR (like Eliminator).

No one can say ONE word without his butting in...and then ALL he does is REPEAT the same things he has REPEATED for yrs and yrs.

I would agree NOT to discuss a subject just to be able to discuss the landmarks and the ariels - but BLEVINS did not allow this before and he won't now.

I tried to follow the other site, but I get lost and I can't see the maps. IF someone will email me the maps they are useing and the yrs...I will see what I can do by overlaying them and drafting pencil marks. I was there in 1979 and again in 2001...I actually want to understand what these maps are showing and if ANYONE can make these available to me I would appreciate it.

GOT to go - hand is throbbing and I am not even supposed to be typing.

Hard to remember to type without caps & one 3 paragraphs . NO more today...bye.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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skyjack71

I am very very tired and all of you need to realize that certain parties are NOT what they represent themselves to be.

. . . . .

Robt 99 - he gets his shorts in a bunch and he is one of the opinionated - I AM NEVER WRONG kind of individuals.

. . . . .

If Robt99 was all he claims why has he NOT checked out my claims about Air Park and the man who owned it in 1971.

Why did he not check out Mildred Taylor who used to be Mildred Ford the wife of the Mr. Ford who owned the Air Park and was question in relation to the skyjacking as a suspect.

. . . . .

I think that retention ditch is what eroded the beach - I have been told it has changed a lot.

. . . . .



Jo, You are NEVER to tired to post another lengthy piece of baloney to support your fairy tales about Duane.

If I am opinionated, then just exactly what are you?

On the point of my not investigating things that you want me to do, I am NOT going to participate in another of your wild goose chases about something that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Cooper hijacking. You are free to waste your own time on such silly things, but you are not going to waste mine.

What you call a "retention ditch" is actually a retention pond. When Meyer Louie and I visited that pond, we were assured that nothing from the pond had ever flowed into the river and that nothing from the river had ever flowed into the pond.

The Columbia River has severe erosion problems at Tina Bar and that erosion continues despite efforts to at least contain it.

Robert99

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Quote

'Referencing your story Blevins:
With the information I have & what you posted in the thread & in your book - it is evident you twisted information & miss led your "witnesses". You manuevered seniors and manipulated the words.

Geestman was the only one with enough sense to stand up to you....'



I took extensive notes during interviews, which were always done with the subject's permission. Some interviews were recorded either on a digital voice recorder or a vid camera. Also with the subject's permission. The only time anyone got angry with me was during my initial interview with Helen Jones. She told me I had a lot of nerve hinting that her good friend Kenny Christiansen could be a crook. She said she didn't want to talk to me, but offered to read from a bundle of notes I had and look at some pictures...all about Kenny and Geestman. She told me to leave them with her and to come back in a couple of hours.

When I returned she said: "Come on in, I will talk to you." Her daughter had shown up, as well. We did interviews over the next two days. She was very helpful.

By the end of the second day of interviews, she was not only fully cooperative, but told me this:

Quote

"How could he (Kenny) have done such a thing?" :)



I actually tried to give her an answer. I told her: "I think he just got tired of all the bullshit and all the strikes at Northwest, and that after all those years with them he was still only making five hundred a month."

One thing is for certain. Kenny died with a house paid for free and clear, with about 200K in the bank, a gold and silver coin and stamp collection that sold at auction for 40K, and was only retired for a very few years when he died. And he supposedly did all this on a purser's pay for one of the cheapest airlines around. None of this makes him DB Cooper, of course. But his letters home show he was definitely unhappy with Northwest Airlines not long before the hijacking. Ralph Himmelsbach said that the FBI never even considered airline employees as suspects. He said they were 'head and shoulders above the standards of ordinary people,' (paraphrased quote from Skyjack) Maybe he should have looked at them anyway.

Quote from Helen Jones concerning Thanksgiving dinner at her house in 1972, the year AFTER the hijacking, when Kenny and Bernie actually showed up to eat:

Quote

"He (Kenny) seemed to be doing much better financially..."



Bernie Geestman is a liar many times over. And every one of those lies, both to me and to reps from History Channel, concerned distancing himself from any possible involvement in the hijacking, or with Kenny's financial dealings directly after the crime. *If* Kenny turns out to be Cooper, I am certain that it was Geestman who talked him into it, and then later (as a part of the deal) wangled five thousand dollars out of Kenny so that he (Geestman) could get his sister and her kids out of his house and into their own place.

No worries. Like I said, none of this means Kenny was Cooper. But whether you like it or not, or whether you FEAR this or not...we will find out the truth on him. And we are closer to that than you think. ;)


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Point of Order: How much do airline attendants and pursers get paid TODAY? The answer is, not a whole lot. Kenny Christiansen retired from NWA more than twenty years ago and wages were even less back then. But here are some top-level numbers for TODAY at five major airlines for these jobs.

('Top Level' is defined as working at the same job for that airline for more than six years, and represents about as high as you are ever going to go in that job. Starting wages are much lower. These numbers are from 2011-2013.)

Delta (Fomerly NWA) 36,441

Airtran 33,129

Jetblue 30,582

Frontier 29,637

Virgin Am 22,698

As I said, these numbers are top-line from today, and frankly...I make more than any of those numbers just cleaning homes. Yet Mr. Christiansen somehow managed to amass a fairly large estate working for much, much less. He was also known to be generous with his money occasionally, and yet left an estate that, in cash, added up to nearly a quarter million dollars and a house. And he allegedly did this in a period of approximately twenty-one years after the time of the hijacking. This means he would have to have saved more than half his wages each year, and that still wouldn't give a good accounting. The reason is because for the first TEN years (71-81) his wages would have been no more than four figures. Only in the last ten-twelve years or so of his employment with NWA would he have reached five figures a year. The year he retired, most flight attendents were still making less than 30K a year. At that same time (1993), some of American Airlines' stews were so poorly paid that they qualified for food stamps. And NWA was notorious for their lousy pay and meager benefits.

So what you are really looking at here is the long picture. If Christiansen was making about $6,000 a year in 1971, and did not reach five figures until at least 1980...then you are talking about amassing such an estate in a period covering no more than twelve years or so. This means Kenny's cash and collection assets would mostly have to be saved up in this same period (1980-93), which spread out adds up to about $20,000 a year, roughly. If he never went over $20-25K a year max during his career, (true) the numbers on him just don't add up. You are talking about trying to save up each year about what you actually make each year, which unless you live in a tent in the woods and eat cattail roots exclusively...is impossible.

A simpler way to view this is the following:

1) We know Kenny made about $6,000 at NWA in 1971.

Let's imagine the unlikely, but generous scenario that Kenny was raised an average of a thousand dollars a year for every additional year he worked at NWA. This would give him a final yearly wage in 1993 of $29,000 a year. This amount, by the way, is probably too high. But let's be generous.

His total gross wages in that twenty-two year period between 1971 and 1993 would be $420,000. But that figure is far too high anyway because until at least 1980 he would not have even reached 10K a year, realistically speaking. The actual total of wages he earned between 71-93 for NWA was probably closer to $330,000. And he left an estate equal to all of that minus $80,000 to live on over a twenty-two year period. Does not compute, as the robot on Lost in Space would have said.

Doesn't mean he was DB Cooper. Means the numbers on him just don't jive. One of the things Lyle and other members of the Christiansen family have said was their utter amazement he left so much behind. Much has been said about an empty lot KC purchased on a promissory note PRIOR to the hijacking...but he didn't pay it off until AFTER the hijacking. He then went on to purchase the house, as well as a larger lot behind what is now the Bonney Lake Safeway. This lot, about ten acres, had the trees sold off it by Kenny later, and he sometimes told people he made a lot of money doing that. This, of course, was NOT true. For a heavily wooded lot that has not been harvested in 20-50 years, the average harvest is 3,000BF per acre, with a value to the owner of about $600. (Average paid to owner per acre) This adds up to only $6,000 on a tree sale.

And none of this explains how he pulled out five thousand dollars from his pocket in April 1972 and lent it to Bernie Geestman's sister Dawn Androsko. Less than two years previously he had written home complaining he was living on peanut butter, and that it was running out. The strikes at NWA and the poor pay is a constant theme in these letters home, but for some reason he stopped saying those things to his family after 1972.

In a nutshell, if you look at Kenny's financials, in order to leave such an estate behind based simply on what he earned in his career with NWA...it just doesn't add up at all.

Seen recently on another Cooper website:

Quote

'I seriously doubt he has anything new. Kenny has had enough exposure to of brought something forward, as Georger says, squat happened. except for the hundreds of emails he gets from "the public". his plan is a good one by acting out the "trust" issue, and only allowing the media, or LE to "examine" the new found evidence. that gives him time to spare since he has nothing new. what happened with the DNA? things were rolling right along faster than anyone dealing with the FBI? one email to them, and show was on the road. if it happened that quick, shouldn't the findings follow the same speed? where are the updates, and emails back and forth with all involved? this was moving at a rapid pace.

Marla again. What would Robert have done if Marla claimed she didn't trust him and refused to answer any questions? He would still be going on about to this day! He believes dropzone is the only place to go when it comes to DB Cooper...'



I will address this comment. I don't think Dropzone is the ONLY place for Cooper. It's just the most heavily viewed worldwide. There are actually a lot of threads on Cooper, some active, some not.

The reason for not revealing certain new information on Kenny is because I want law enforcement and a couple close folks I trust to see those things first. I already said previously I would release a final report on Kenny in January and the DNA on Lyle will be done at the same time. I also want to give ArcPoint some time to try and request a copy of the tie profile first, although I doubt this will be granted to them by the Seattle FBI. In fact, even though certain people like to go on about me elsewhere like Coffee Talk, I have kept people fairly updated on what we're doing.

On a side note, you guys over there are not inherently evil or anything...but for a place that said they established themselves to 'get away from Jo and Blevins' you sure discuss both a lot. If you think everything I post here is wrong or a lie or both...maybe you should just agree on that and move on to something else. ;)


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RobertMBlevins

Point of Order: How much do airline attendants and pursers get paid TODAY? The answer is, not a whole lot. Kenny Christiansen retired from NWA more than twenty years ago and wages were even less back then. But here are some top-level numbers for TODAY at five major airlines for these jobs.

('Top Level' is defined as working at the same job for that airline for more than six years, and represents about as high as you are ever going to go in that job. Starting wages are much lower. These numbers are from 2011-2013.)

Delta (Fomerly NWA) 36,441

Airtran 33,129

Jetblue 30,582

Frontier 29,637

Virgin Am 22,698

As I said, these numbers are top-line from today, and frankly...I make more than any of those numbers just cleaning homes. Yet Mr. Christiansen somehow managed to amass a fairly large estate working for much, much less. He was also known to be generous with his money occasionally, and yet left an estate that, in cash, added up to nearly a quarter million dollars and a house. And he allegedly did this in a period of approximately twenty-one years after the time of the hijacking. This means he would have to have saved more than half his wages each year, and that still wouldn't give a good accounting. The reason is because for the first TEN years (71-81) his wages would have been no more than four figures. Only in the last ten years or so of his employment with NWA would he have reached five figures a year, and that just barely. The year he retired, most flight attendents were still making less than 30K a year. At that same time (1993), some of American Airlines' stews were so poorly paid that they qualified for food stamps. And NWA was notorious for their lousy pay and meager benefits.

So what you are really looking at here is the long picture. If Christiansen was making about $6,000 a year in 1971, and did not reach five figures until at least 1980...then you are talking about amassing such an estate in a period covering no more than twelve years or so. This means Kenny's cash and collection assets would mostly have to be saved up in this same period (1980-93), which spread out adds up to about $20,000 a year, roughly. If he never went over $20-25K a year max during his career, (true) the numbers on him just don't add up. You are talking about trying to save up each year about what you actually make each year, which unless you live in a tent in the woods and eat cattail roots exclusively...is impossible.

A simpler way to view this is the following:

1) We know Kenny made about $6,000 at NWA in 1971.

Let's imagine the unlikely, but generous scenario that Kenny was raised an average of a thousand dollars a year for every additional year he worked at NWA. This would give him a final yearly wage in 1993 of $29,000 a year. This amount, by the way, is probably too high. But let's be generous.

His total gross wages in that twenty-two year period between 1971 and 1993 would be $420,000. But that figure is far too high anyway because until at least 1980 he would not have even reached 10K a year, realistically speaking. The actual total of wages he earned between 71-93 for NWA was probably closer to $330,000. And he left an estate equal to all of that minus $80,000 to live on over a twenty-two year period. Does not compute, as the robot on Lost in Space would have said.

Doesn't mean he was DB Cooper. Means the numbers on him just don't jive. One of the things Lyle and other members of the Christiansen family have said was their utter amazement he left so much behind. Much has been said about an empty lot KC purchased on a promissory note PRIOR to the hijacking...but he didn't pay it off until AFTER the hijacking. He then went on to purchase the house, as well as a larger lot behind what is now the Bonney Lake Safeway. This lot, about ten acres, had the trees sold off it by Kenny later, and he sometimes told people he made a lot of money doing that. This, of course, was NOT true. For a heavily wooded lot that has not been harvested in 20-50 years, the average harvest is 3,000BF per acre, with a value to the owner of about $600. (Average paid to owner per acre) This adds up to only $6,000 on a tree sale.

And none of this explains how he pulled out five thousand dollars from his pocket in April 1972 and lent it to Bernie Geestman's sister Dawn Androsko. Less than two years previously he had written home complaining he was living on peanut butter, and that it was running out. The strikes at NWA and the poor pay is a constant theme in these letters home, but for some reason he stopped saying those things to his family after 1972.

In a nutshell, if you look at Kenny's financials, in order to leave such an estate behind based simply on what he earned in his career with NWA...it just doesn't add up at all.



Blevins, unfortunately your "analysis" just doesn't add up at all either.

On the matter of the airlines, only Delta and NWA are old time legacy airlines. Air Tran, Jet Blue, and Virgin America are relatively recent low-cost startups.

While there was a regional carrier named Frontier in the 1970s or so, I believe it merged with someone else or went out of business and that the present day Frontier is also a low-cost startup.

But the legacy airlines and especially the regional airlines of the 1970s more than met their match when along came a new breed of airline managers commonly, and correctly, referred to as "robber barons".

The end result of the above is that bankruptcy became part of the airline managers business plan. And bankruptcy was a great opportunity to break union contracts with both pilots and cabin crew unions, grab control of the retirement funds under those contracts, eliminate health care for retirees, eliminate pensions for retirees, and to offer subsequent new hires jobs at about half the salary of the previous new hires.

Then in the late 1970s, Old Jimmy Carter came along and managed to drive the airline industry right over the cliff again by deregulating the airline industry.

The end result is that today's airline retirees don't usually have pensions and are generally paid at maybe 50 percent of the rate that previous employees were being paid just prior to their retirement.

Simply put, you cannot make a simple comparison of the airline industry as you have done above. It is much more complicated.

KC could easily, and probably did, have income from a couple of other sources. Such as having a second job since NWA only required about two weeks of work per month.

Then you seem to completely ignore the simple fact that there was a tremendous real estate boom between the 1960s and 1990s. If you weren't paying attention during that time, then there is no way that it can be explained to you now.

To repeat, your airline analysis above is fatally flawed.

Robert99

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