snowmman 3
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georger 197
Quote377 said
"If you look long enough someone will tell you that Duane could take a 1.5 volt dry cell and a back brace and convert it into a gadget that would receive proximity info from a VOR transmitter."
Funny you mention that 377. Look no further:
I experimented with this just now. I took a back brace and bent 3 of them to form a rudimentary coil. I worked out the coil diameter and spacing in my head, to get an approximate L. I made a capacitor from layering 8 of the stays in between layers of magazine paper. I used a knife blade tip and a rock and made a rudimentary detector.
I went to a VOR, and although I couldn't get the proximity info, I was able to detect a 3 digit CW id.
I was surprised at this, and so read up to understand why I got a signal. VOR's transmit, in addition to the 9960 Hz FM stuff, an omnidirectional AM signal with 1040hz CW modulated on it.
I can only detect the CW id when I'm very close, because of the poor receiver. But that's enough for use a proximity detector.
(edit) Bruce can incorporate this into his treatise, free of charge. Although I guess I'm missing an earphone and some wiring details.
(edit) Everyone has their own individual crazy thoughts, when you think about it: Ckret: loadmaster/comic book; H/Jerry: 305 flying off in the hinterlands; Sluggo:cemetaries; TK: mentioned money roots for a second.
The whole thing inspires crazy thinking. It's because the basic facts are so obscured by the FBI. (the bump testimony, the clay layer report, the flight path data, the weather data, the wind data)
There is no reliable information.
(edit) The Seattle ARTCC transcript stuff I highlighted seems to me to be consistent with them tracking 305, and 305 being correctly on route. I'm surprised I got no reaction. Instead Shelly comes on to attack Jo once again. Weird.
Cooper had no back brace. End of story.
Shelly is not attacking Jo, so why invent that?
You have no conscience in any event, one way or the
other. You're just another frustrated reporter.
snowmman 3
geoger said:
"Shelly is not attacking Jo, so why invent that?
You have no conscience in any event, one way or the
other. You're just another frustrated reporter."
Hi Georger.
I am perfectly willing to accept the premise that I am what other people think of me.
But: why does this thread have anything to do with conscience or even morality?
What boundary have i crossed that gets you pissed at me?
I mean I can understand I'm boring. But besides that, I can't see what the issue is.
"Shelly is not attacking Jo, so why invent that?
You have no conscience in any event, one way or the
other. You're just another frustrated reporter."
Hi Georger.
I am perfectly willing to accept the premise that I am what other people think of me.
But: why does this thread have anything to do with conscience or even morality?
What boundary have i crossed that gets you pissed at me?
I mean I can understand I'm boring. But besides that, I can't see what the issue is.
georger 197
Quote
Jo said:QuoteThe main thing is that the VOR and the location in the forest with the tower and shed are not too far apart??????? Sluggo is the only one who would know exactly how far. This goes beyond co-incidence to me - we need Sluggo. I am thinking it is less than a couple of miles -- less as the crow flies.
Sluggo knows about the area of the tower and shed - due to the tracks and I can tell you that now there are little ranchettes in that area - long narrow pieces of property with a home on the front and acreage behind it. The tracks run along the rear of a few of those places.
Don’t go asking for my help now. You have used up all your karma with me.
As far back as January of 2008, I begged you to stop posting on this forum (or any forum). I tried to tell you tactfully that you were “pissing in the punchbowl” and ruining any hope you might have to get someone (anyone) to take your story seriously and to enlist the help of others knowledgeable in technology, law, law enforcement, or social sciences. I asked you, Ralph H suggested to you, and X (the guy you said: “He’s not a hydrologist, but he’s pretty close to one”) almost begged you to STOP POSTING! But you have continued to post.
I offered to manage the information flow for you, X offered to manage the information flow for you, we both agreed to share those duties, not because we agreed with each other, but because we disagreed with each other (that’s intellectual honesty). But you wouldn’t have it, and now you are just a circus bear, peddling your unicycle, juggling your balls, dancing for a soda-pop, and having no idea where you are going, nor why.
What’s really sad, is that you have a very interesting story, most of the posters here don’t know the story of Duane Weber. They only know the story of Duane Weber as told by an ex-wife who selectively accepts or rejects data in order to make it fit the story outcome as she sees it. That outcome being that Duane was the DB Cooper who was on the plane that night.
An analogy would be: You want to prove that Duane was the quarterback on the Pleasantville College State Championship Football team in 1956. When people of whom you have requested help, say “Well, it appears he was on the 1956 Pleasantville team, and they DID win the 1956 State Championship, but Duane was a running-back NOT a quarterback” you reject all that info because it doesn’t fit the outcome you wanted. You then go on to blame the people who are trying to help you. You even say, the Line-judge, and the Referee were incompetent, just because the facts don’t support your desired outcome.
So, the boat sank. Who caused the boat to sink? YOU did!
377 is right… using mystical, far-fetched, supernatural, way-out, conspiratorial, and fanciful explanations to explain a puzzle are almost always wrong. The explanations are usually based on natural principles (and sometimes natural phenomena) and real-world facts.
You remember when I told you that you needed to understand that everyone who shits on you is not your enemy, and everyone who pulls you out of shit is not your friend? It is obvious that you have never learned that lesson.
Just in case anyone cares (which I doubt), here’s my read on Duane Loren Weber (AKA John C. Collins):
He was not a petty criminal as some have said. He was a master criminal (not necessarily more evil), who, like any good gambler, knew when to quit. In his final years, his only crimes were centered on covering his past and protecting his legitimate (lawful) life.
He MAY have been involved in some covert operations at some time (probably in the sixties and probably in Florida). His association with the NORJAK hijacking was tangential at most, most likely he was involved in the post hijacking search, or possibly was just intrigued by Cooper’s actions, and as a result admired him. He may have even conducted his own investigation, and desired to contact him (out of admiration). But, in that sense, he WAS involved.
I think if Jo would open-up the (considerable) records she has amassed (to others here), some of the “deeper thinkers” like snowmman, georger, 377, Orange1 who post here regularly, could put together Duane’s story. And, I think all would find it interesting.
So Jo, are you going to continue the make the same statements, over and over (ad nauseam), shout louder and louder, become more and more indignant, make personal attacks on those who try to help you understand, write more unsolicited PMs, display and increasing degree of emotional intensity, deny and reject the facts that don’t fit your story, embrace the fictions that support your desired outcome, and invoke protection and pity because of your health? Or, or you going to open your hand and show everyone the cards you are holding, and let them do some legwork (those you haven’t totally alienated), and maybe see where Duane REALLY fits in the NORJAK puzzle?
Just remember the hard-learned lesson that a wise old man once told you: “Everyone who shits on you is not your enemy, and everyone who pulls you out of shit is not your friend.”
Sluggo_Monster
From my perspective, these are all clinical issues
re- Jo Weber. And have no linkage to DB Cooper
except by Jo continually using the word/name:
Cooper.
From my perspective, it would be as if somebody
showed up here wanting to talk about Mickey Mouse
or Ronald Racoon ......... and did so endlessly, with
Snow's support, even though the topic is: DB Cooper.
And having eaten aluminum foil Ronny Racoon
detected BTG VOR and was DB Cooper!
Jo Weber's MRI's are the real story ..... but why
would anyone care here, except for the social aspects
of her coming here? It could be evidence she has about Jesus, or some Governor, or Abe Lincoln, or
toxins in Hershey candy bars, or the Tobacco Industry.
She could have taken on the tobacco industry and
been famous for that.
DB Cooper is real. Jo and Duane Weber are not!
Jo and Duane Weber (for all Jo's records) are still
phantoms set against something as real gulf which is
Cooper. And without that void Jo Weber would never
have been in this story, in the first place. It's all in
Jo's MRI's.
Jo Weber has status only because people have validated here along the way. That as you know I
very much disagree with. I disagree with that because
I have seen the damage Jo (and people like her) do
along their path of destruction. So, I dont have much
sympathy for 'enablers' here at this time, and that
includes you, Snowjob, and others... you people seem
eminently callous and uninfomed and selfish to me,
if only to Jo's regardless as a first-fact in this reality.
Jo is the Forum stooge with a dunce hat on, in the
corner. Her enablers have put her there when what Jo really needs is help of a clinical nature, she probably
has refused.
Complaining about Jo's PMs at this late stage is a
little like complaining about the snake striking when
its poked! We knew it was a snake all along!
Jo is just one in a long line of individuals who want
to take on the DB Cooper story and make it their own
personal story. The rest of that story is people actually
believing they could solve it! That is almost as ridiculous as what Jo Weber does... think about it!
Consider the audacity implicit in that.
My recommendation is that people just forget about
Jo Weber, which is exactly where (and part of why)
I came into this Forum in the first place.
377 20
I got a really big laugh out of Snow's Duane Weber home brew VOR AM crystal radio recipe. Very creative. I hope Georger got a chuckle too since he definitely understands the technical satire... but he doesnt laugh at much Snowffall.
You would do well on Survivor Snow.
Jerry too. Could you work together?
I paid attention when Sluggo said Duane was not just a petty criminal. I always thought he was but I could be wrong. I ONLY know what Jo posts about him.
How about some more info on that Sluggo? What makes you say what you did about him? I am sure there is a basis for your conclusions. Care to share it?
Georger, Jo can be ignored easily, just skip her posts or any that respond to or reference them. Its just like tuning past those perpetually drunk foul mouthed guys from Alabama/Tennessee/Arkansas on 80 meter SSB. If you don't like the message, just ignore it and respond to those you choose. You don't have to concede the band to them.
73,
377
You would do well on Survivor Snow.
Jerry too. Could you work together?
I paid attention when Sluggo said Duane was not just a petty criminal. I always thought he was but I could be wrong. I ONLY know what Jo posts about him.
How about some more info on that Sluggo? What makes you say what you did about him? I am sure there is a basis for your conclusions. Care to share it?
Georger, Jo can be ignored easily, just skip her posts or any that respond to or reference them. Its just like tuning past those perpetually drunk foul mouthed guys from Alabama/Tennessee/Arkansas on 80 meter SSB. If you don't like the message, just ignore it and respond to those you choose. You don't have to concede the band to them.
73,
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 said:
You probably already know my response.
Regardless of my relationship with Jo right now, the information (records) I have was given to me in confidence and I made a verbal non-disclosure agreement with Jo. As is typical of Deep South Southerners (yes the upper-case letters belong there), my honor is my most valued possession. I will keep my word, until such time I am released from the agreement.
If you want to know about John/Duane (and yes, the emphasis is on John, not Duane, get Jo to SHOW you her records (not tell you about them). Jo’s quest to prove “Duane was Cooper” keeps her from seeing the interesting aspects of John Collins. I am of the belief that Jo married knew and loved Duane Weber, but finds John Collins a total stranger, and of little importance to her. The character that interests me the most is John C. Collins. I didn’t start out that way, I started out to find out if Duane could have been Cooper. But, as I learned more, and grew more and more weary with Jo’s non-productive behavior, I dug out more and more about Collins.
Since I can’t/won’t divulge specific information from the documents entrusted to me by Jo, let me use an analogy:
Suppose there was a guy named Sluggo Marrinelli. You never met Sluggo, but you were given records that indicate 30 years ago, Sluggo got a job working for a DOE/DoD/NNSA contractor at a weapons lab. Sluggo was also a guardian ad litum (GAL) for the Pleasant County Family Courts a position that requires a background screening. The records you were given also indicate that previous to Sluggo’s job at the weapons lab and the GAL service, Sluggo had been to prison on, not one, but many felony charges. The records show Sluggo was dishonorably discharged from the Marine Corp, then, successfully joined the Navy, then, was dishonorably discharged from the Navy. He then spent years in and out of prison, sometimes using the name of I.P. Freely. But he still got the weapons lab job an served as a GAL.
Finally, after changing his ways, Sluggo settled down and lived a quiet life as a small business owner. Then one day, Sluggo went to the Pleasant County Courthouse (where the DMV was located) and attempted to obtain a driver’s license under the name of I. P. Freely. He couldn’t prove he was I.P. Freely, so he couldn’t get the license. He left. The clerk got suspicious and called the Pleasant County Sheriff’s Office and reported the incident. Sluggo then drove over to Small County and the DMV there issued him a DL in the name of I.P. Freely. On his way home the Pleasant County Sheriff’s Deputies see him and stop him. He is found to be carrying a concealed weapon and a the new DL in the name of I.P. Freely. He’s taken to the County Complex, questioned, and released the same day. No charges are made, no indictment follows, the weapon isn’t taken, nothing happens.
Now, that is an interesting story, don’t you think so?
Now remember 377:
- Never play cards with a man called Doc.
- Never eat at a place called Mom's.
- Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own.
- Everyone who shits on you is not your enemy and everyone who pulls you out of shit is not your friend.
- Never eat yellow snow.
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QuoteI paid attention when Sluggo said Duane was not just a petty criminal. I always thought he was but I could be wrong. I ONLY know what Jo posts about him.
How about some more info on that Sluggo? What makes you say what you did about him? I am sure there is a basis for your conclusions. Care to share it?
You probably already know my response.
Regardless of my relationship with Jo right now, the information (records) I have was given to me in confidence and I made a verbal non-disclosure agreement with Jo. As is typical of Deep South Southerners (yes the upper-case letters belong there), my honor is my most valued possession. I will keep my word, until such time I am released from the agreement.
If you want to know about John/Duane (and yes, the emphasis is on John, not Duane, get Jo to SHOW you her records (not tell you about them). Jo’s quest to prove “Duane was Cooper” keeps her from seeing the interesting aspects of John Collins. I am of the belief that Jo married knew and loved Duane Weber, but finds John Collins a total stranger, and of little importance to her. The character that interests me the most is John C. Collins. I didn’t start out that way, I started out to find out if Duane could have been Cooper. But, as I learned more, and grew more and more weary with Jo’s non-productive behavior, I dug out more and more about Collins.
Since I can’t/won’t divulge specific information from the documents entrusted to me by Jo, let me use an analogy:
Suppose there was a guy named Sluggo Marrinelli. You never met Sluggo, but you were given records that indicate 30 years ago, Sluggo got a job working for a DOE/DoD/NNSA contractor at a weapons lab. Sluggo was also a guardian ad litum (GAL) for the Pleasant County Family Courts a position that requires a background screening. The records you were given also indicate that previous to Sluggo’s job at the weapons lab and the GAL service, Sluggo had been to prison on, not one, but many felony charges. The records show Sluggo was dishonorably discharged from the Marine Corp, then, successfully joined the Navy, then, was dishonorably discharged from the Navy. He then spent years in and out of prison, sometimes using the name of I.P. Freely. But he still got the weapons lab job an served as a GAL.
Finally, after changing his ways, Sluggo settled down and lived a quiet life as a small business owner. Then one day, Sluggo went to the Pleasant County Courthouse (where the DMV was located) and attempted to obtain a driver’s license under the name of I. P. Freely. He couldn’t prove he was I.P. Freely, so he couldn’t get the license. He left. The clerk got suspicious and called the Pleasant County Sheriff’s Office and reported the incident. Sluggo then drove over to Small County and the DMV there issued him a DL in the name of I.P. Freely. On his way home the Pleasant County Sheriff’s Deputies see him and stop him. He is found to be carrying a concealed weapon and a the new DL in the name of I.P. Freely. He’s taken to the County Complex, questioned, and released the same day. No charges are made, no indictment follows, the weapon isn’t taken, nothing happens.
Now, that is an interesting story, don’t you think so?
Now remember 377:
- Never play cards with a man called Doc.
- Never eat at a place called Mom's.
- Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own.
- Everyone who shits on you is not your enemy and everyone who pulls you out of shit is not your friend.
- Never eat yellow snow.
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Blog
NORJAK Forum
snowmman 3
Georger,
Thanks for laying out your point of view. I respect it, and you have valid points.
From my side of the fence:
-I don't think I'm an enabler. I consistently tell Jo straight up that I think she's a bit crazed, and that Duane had nothing to do with it. I say that in PMs and I say it here. I actually am more impressed with Jo now than before, because she seems to digest things on more levels than her posts show. Although I agree at times her posts are annoying or naive.
-I don't think Jo creates a path of destruction. If she does, it says more about the other side being weak, or untrained in dealing with people with Jo, when there's a task to be done.
-Jo is very good at picking out when I'm trying to be funny and when I'm not.
-Jo just thinks of me as another random person on the forum. Sometimes I have something she's interested in, sometimes not.
I think we all have to avoid trying to speak for other people's minds. (edit) Hell, I just did it. trying to describe Jo!
You can see Sluggo trying to do it..i.e. he gets worked up because Jo isn't telling the Duane story like he wants it to be told. I think that's funny, but I don't say Sluggo is creating destruction because of that.
We all just post on whatever we feel like posting. If people like reading it, they comment. The thread meanders, like a river, as a result.
Hell, even Bruce gets a little support.
Hey: Google Books now has Popular Mechanics going way back, and World Weekly News too! (for all you tabloid fans)
Was looking around for stuff 377 might enjoy:
-attached a 1928 photo (Popular Mechanics) of a "fin"..interesting this is early wingsuit like? (Aug 1928, page 256)
-photo of jumper with broadcast unit in 1928. I think this was 377? Jumped from 20,000 ft with a 25 lb transmitter.
-You guys like squidding. Here's some off a biplane. 1928
(Jan 1928, page 104)
Thanks for laying out your point of view. I respect it, and you have valid points.
From my side of the fence:
-I don't think I'm an enabler. I consistently tell Jo straight up that I think she's a bit crazed, and that Duane had nothing to do with it. I say that in PMs and I say it here. I actually am more impressed with Jo now than before, because she seems to digest things on more levels than her posts show. Although I agree at times her posts are annoying or naive.
-I don't think Jo creates a path of destruction. If she does, it says more about the other side being weak, or untrained in dealing with people with Jo, when there's a task to be done.
-Jo is very good at picking out when I'm trying to be funny and when I'm not.
-Jo just thinks of me as another random person on the forum. Sometimes I have something she's interested in, sometimes not.
I think we all have to avoid trying to speak for other people's minds. (edit) Hell, I just did it. trying to describe Jo!
You can see Sluggo trying to do it..i.e. he gets worked up because Jo isn't telling the Duane story like he wants it to be told. I think that's funny, but I don't say Sluggo is creating destruction because of that.
We all just post on whatever we feel like posting. If people like reading it, they comment. The thread meanders, like a river, as a result.
Hell, even Bruce gets a little support.
Hey: Google Books now has Popular Mechanics going way back, and World Weekly News too! (for all you tabloid fans)
Was looking around for stuff 377 might enjoy:
-attached a 1928 photo (Popular Mechanics) of a "fin"..interesting this is early wingsuit like? (Aug 1928, page 256)
-photo of jumper with broadcast unit in 1928. I think this was 377? Jumped from 20,000 ft with a 25 lb transmitter.
-You guys like squidding. Here's some off a biplane. 1928
(Jan 1928, page 104)
snowmman 3
"He is found to be carrying a concealed weapon and a the new DL in the name of I.P. Freely. He’s taken to the County Complex, questioned, and released the same day. No charges are made, no indictment follows, the weapon isn’t taken, nothing happens."
Sluggo: I think you're overdramatizing the story.
A big part of the story is that Jo lobbied for Duane, saying that he was sick.
I thought the weapon was in the car, not concealed on his person.
I don't see what the big issue is. An old supposedly sick man does something crazy. Wife intervenes and pitches a medical story. Law enforcement cuts him loose because he's done nothing.
You leave a lot unsaid. Are you implying that somehow someone talked to LE and they let him go because of some secret background? Why not just say the theory?
(edit) also: are you mixing stories? I thought the gun was found during the '76 or '80 DUI, and that Jo was a passenger in the car for one of those. I guess I don't know if a gun was additionally found during the DMV event or what. We've never had a good summary of the Duane LE interactions while Jo was married to him.
Sluggo: I think you're overdramatizing the story.
A big part of the story is that Jo lobbied for Duane, saying that he was sick.
I thought the weapon was in the car, not concealed on his person.
I don't see what the big issue is. An old supposedly sick man does something crazy. Wife intervenes and pitches a medical story. Law enforcement cuts him loose because he's done nothing.
You leave a lot unsaid. Are you implying that somehow someone talked to LE and they let him go because of some secret background? Why not just say the theory?
(edit) also: are you mixing stories? I thought the gun was found during the '76 or '80 DUI, and that Jo was a passenger in the car for one of those. I guess I don't know if a gun was additionally found during the DMV event or what. We've never had a good summary of the Duane LE interactions while Jo was married to him.
snowmman 3
Galen Cook made this 8mm film of Gossett in 1973 available at Coast to Coast last year. We never really discussed it, just the photos.
I love it. Has the the "Magruder film" quality that every good '70s conspiracy needs. Gossett is kind of fat in 1973. White belt is funny.
Cook is apparently saying that Gosset could read and write French, since the comic book action went into play.
(windows media player wmv file)
http://mfile.akamai.com/5022/wmv/coast.download.akamai.com/5022/video/032908_db_cooper_suspect_1973.asx
The DBC thread will never die.
I love it. Has the the "Magruder film" quality that every good '70s conspiracy needs. Gossett is kind of fat in 1973. White belt is funny.
Cook is apparently saying that Gosset could read and write French, since the comic book action went into play.
(windows media player wmv file)
http://mfile.akamai.com/5022/wmv/coast.download.akamai.com/5022/video/032908_db_cooper_suspect_1973.asx
The DBC thread will never die.
Snowmman said:
QuoteSluggo: I think you're overdramatizing the story.
A big part of the story is that Jo lobbied for Duane, saying that he was sick.
Yes, it was veeerrrrryyyy dramatic (how else can I say “very dramatic” dramatically)?
Sluggo said:
QuoteSince I can’t/won’t divulge specific information from the documents entrusted to me by Jo, let me use an analogy:
From your favorite source (Wikipedia):
QuoteSpecific analogical language comprises exemplification, comparisons, metaphors, similes, allegories, and parables, but not metonymy.
It was an analog, who said anything about specifics in Duane’s life and/or Jo’s participation. This story was about Sluggo Marrinelli and I.P. Freely.
BTW Florida Law Sates:
790.23 Felons and delinquents; possession of firearms, ammunition, or electric weapons or devices unlawful.--
(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any firearm, ammunition, or electric weapon or device, or to carry a concealed weapon, including a tear gas gun or chemical weapon or device, if that person has been:
(a) Convicted of a felony in the courts of this state;
(b) Found, in the courts of this state, to have committed a delinquent act that would be a felony if committed by an adult and such person is under 24 years of age;
(c) Convicted of or found to have committed a crime against the United States which is designated as a felony;
(d) Found to have committed a delinquent act in another state, territory, or country that would be a felony if committed by an adult and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year and such person is under 24 years of age; or
(e) Found guilty of an offense that is a felony in another state, territory, or country and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
(2) This section shall not apply to a person convicted of a felony whose civil rights and firearm authority have been restored.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (4), any person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 874.04, if the offense described in subsection (1) has been committed by a person who has previously qualified or currently qualifies for the penalty enhancements provided for in s. 874.04, the offense is a felony of the first degree, punishable by a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
775.082 Penalties; applicability of sentencing structures; mandatory minimum sentences for certain reoffenders previously released from prison.--
……
(c) For a felony of the second degree, by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 15 years.
(d) For a felony of the third degree, by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years.
Sounds to me like a felon in possession of a handgun is taken pretty seriously in FL.
Maybe if I ever get caught doing a second degree felony in FL, I’ll get my wife to tell them I’m sick. That should get me off.
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Mr.Nuke 0
Snowmman said:
Aviation calculations are pretty simple. Google E6B emulators.
QuoteInteresting. The wind could have been predicted exactly at each point?
Aviation calculations are pretty simple. Google E6B emulators.
Last night, I was surprised to realize I had never read "A Walk on the Wild Side" by Nelson Algren. I imagined that Orange1 would tell me she did long ago....:)
Nelson famously had his own rules of life:
-Never play cards with a man called Doc.
-Never eat at a place called Mom's.
-Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own.
The third might apply?
(edit) His mugshot is attached. Anyone mentioned in a DBC thread has to have a mugshot. Too bad he's too old to be Cooper.
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