DB Cooper

[smokin99 0]

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Tena Bar money: I thought the amount found equaled roughly $5,800. This would equal three bundles. The sizing of the bundles, when they were assembled, varied slightly. You could account for a few hundred more, maybe based on the shards. The uneven sizing of the money bundles was done purposely to make the hijacker think it was a rush job...and that the numbers had not been recorded. Well, they were recorded, as we know.

A paper sack in a river doesn't last very long before it falls to shreds. Perhaps someone should assemble three bundles of paper roughly equal in size and weight to three of the ransom bundles, put it into a paper bag, toss it into the Columbia somewhere. I would toss it from a boat, and then follow the bag and take pictures/notes. See what happens. Maybe it will end up at Tena Bar due to some current or other that drives up against the shoreline. Who knows?

I'm not going to promote anymore a possible re-examination of the Amboy chute by outside sources. I've had my say on that. If everyone on this thread is satisfied with the FBI's explanation on it, then who am I to argue that?

Damn..breaking my cardinal rule again.
Two errors - First - one person is hardly everyone on this thread.
Second - Even with that one person, you mistake wanting to keep the record straight with being satisfied with the explanation. I would love for someone to have another go at it --OR-- for the FBI to give some public details, but I'm not gonna distort the public record, such as it is, to support my cause.

And really, I doubt that you intentionally distort information - From years of doing some reading and writing and editing myself, I will tell you what I used to tell my students -- sometimes you need to slow down and absorb what you are reading - maybe even read it twice -- just helps to fully comprehend before commenting on it. Or not....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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Tena Bar money: I thought the amount found equaled roughly $5,800. This would equal three bundles. The sizing of the bundles, when they were assembled, varied slightly. You could account for a few hundred more, maybe based on the shards. The uneven sizing of the money bundles was done purposely to make the hijacker think it was a rush job...and that the numbers had not been recorded. Well, they were recorded, as we know.

A paper sack in a river doesn't last very long before it falls to shreds. Perhaps someone should assemble three bundles of paper roughly equal in size and weight to three of the ransom bundles, put it into a paper bag, toss it into the Columbia somewhere. I would toss it from a boat, and then follow the bag and take pictures/notes. See what happens. Maybe it will end up at Tena Bar due to some current or other that drives up against the shoreline. Who knows?

Where would you recommend throwing it in?
Are you just proposing a test to see how long the paper bag lasts or a test to see where the bag ends up? I would think with the latter it would matter where it started from?

Also have to remember that money is different composition than paper - not sure how that would affect buoyancy, submersion rate etc. I'll have to look up Safecrack's videos again. I think he did a brief demo on that.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 235]

I know who Robbie Burroughs is. I also went by several articles, the majority of which say that the FBI had Cossey AMONG OTHERS look at the chutes, AND they came out with that statement that they had not reached a conclusion AFTER Cossey made his opinion public AND Larry Carr said in an interview with ABC news that forensic testing was being performed on the chute AFTER Cossey made his statements. I don't know how much clearer it can be.
I doubt very much that they will re-examine a chute based on your request either. Apparently they also don't feel the need to give us a blow by blow of how they determined it wasn't Coopers, but it sounds like they've examined it and case closed as far as the chute is concerned. Might not make sense but there it is. And I'm done responding on this even if you continue to post incorrect information from articles about it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

agree with all of yours... furthermore ... Im tired of
giving Blevnoss a stage, as if it matters!

[georger 235]

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Tena Bar money: I thought the amount found equaled roughly $5,800. This would equal three bundles. The sizing of the bundles, when they were assembled, varied slightly. You could account for a few hundred more, maybe based on the shards. The uneven sizing of the money bundles was done purposely to make the hijacker think it was a rush job...and that the numbers had not been recorded. Well, they were recorded, as we know.

READ THE THREAD.

[smokin99 0]

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On the water test with a bag for the money: Not to see where it ends up, but simply how long the bag lasts before the bundles separate because the bag shreds.

Okay. Just making sure -- cause you started out in that direction but then mentioned that it might end up at Tena Bar. Trying to keep the experiments straight.

I actually think testing the paper bag might be an interesting experiment. The outcome might surprise us all.

But remember - there's paper bags and then there are paper bags - so to maintain as much validity as possible -- considering we don't have much in the way of controls and such -- you can't just buy the dollar store brand - get some that vary in strength.

And it should be the Columbia. I hate to mention it since I know we have fishing folks on this forum, but there might be something in the Columbia that erodes paper faster than say a mountain stream would??

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

ORDERS LEFT!
POST ONLY IN RED. DO NOT RESPOND TO POSTING...say nothing NEW not approved by VIP's!

I had a WONDERFUL day!
Time to ROLL!

Georger & Smoking are the only ones even CLOSE!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

I keep getting asked if I'm sure that DB Cooper jumped from the plane. I'm not sure, but I addressed the issue this evening.

Here's what I've come up with:

*******************
Is it possible that DB Cooper didn’t jump? Did he simply crawl into a space above the lavatory or burrow his way into the cargo hold, wrap himself in a parachute and re-appear after all the commotion, or as part of the commotion dressed as a worker or FBI agent?

Maybe.

But let's walk through the scenario.

First, there is no concrete evidence to support this hypothesis, but let's not stop because of that.

Two, exactly where did he stash himself? How big was the spot? How did he get there? How did he pull the panels back into place and re-secure them?

Three: His getaway would still be problematic. At Reno, the place was filled with cops and FBI - at least two hundred LE - and then a ton o' media, so the chaos was great, lending some credence to the notion that Cooper could have blended into the mix and slithered away.

But:

It was 11 pm when the plane landed at Reno and presumably the airport was pretty quiet in terms of regular passengers, and one would hope that effective crowd control measures for the LE-media throng were in place. Were there effective screenings of all the police from different jurisdictions? The FBI agents who were first on the plane and conducted the primary evidence retrieval were from Las Vegas and landed at the Reno airport just minutes before 305 touched down.

Further, did cops check press passes in and out? How about maintenance workers and other airport support personnel?

Then, if DBC sneaked out, then how did he get away from the airport? It's unlikely that he rented a car. Take a bus? Was he picked up by an accomplice? Where was the accomplice hiding until Cooper appeared?

Or:

Did Cooper stay on the plane until it went to its next destination, which is unclear and no definitive statement about the immediate disposition of the airplane is publicly known that I am aware of, but it thought to be either Boeing Field for repairs, or Quantico, VA and FBI HQ for more forensics. How did he deal with the cold and de-pressurization issues? Now the walk-away scenario gets more dicey the longer he stays with the plane.

And:

If Cooper walked away somewhere did he take any money with him? In what? How about the rest of the evidence? Did Cooper take that, too? If not, did he leave it on the plane in his hidey-hole? Was it ever discovered? If not, why not? How big is the cover-up, then? How come the bomb-sniffing dogs never discovered Cooper or the bombs? Was it because the bombs were road flares and thus there wasn’t any explosive chemical to detect? Or Cooper lay-weighed their nostrils by filling the Styrofoam containers that he left on the front seats for the pilots' dinners with tacos and hot sauce that the canines ate when they got on the plane and afterwards couldn't smell anything? Etc.....

Plus, where did Cooper stash his coveralls (and work coat as it was 30 degrees F and rainy in Reno) when he first got on the plane? Did Cooper also disguise himself? Wig? Moustache?

But there is an Out-of-the-Box idea. It’s the same concept, only reversed:

Did DB Cooper start his day in Washington, DC and front-load the skyjacking on the East Coast? Did he board Flight 305 in one of the first stops, bring a ton of gear on board and stash it in the over-head compartments? Then he got off at its next stop, Pittsburg or Chicago I think, and take a direct flight to Portland, arriving well before 305 as it had to make several stops and get a new crew in Minneapolis. Then, in PDX Cooper re-boarded 305 knowing that all the stuff he needed was already in place, and even better, his arrival at Portland had been undetected.

So, as a result, Cooper had lots of warm clothes, the exact parachute and reserve he wanted free of detection devices and sabotage, radio gear for his ground crew and a thermos of hot coffee. Skyjack anyone?

[georger 235]

I actually think testing the paper bag might be an interesting experiment. The outcome might surprise us all.

Do a search on past posts on this subject.

Good luck with Mr. Blevins' repetitions of other peoples'
tests, if Blevins follows through at all which I predict is
unlikely. Comparing his results with that of a certified
hydrologist should prove empty again.

That is what this thread is all about. So be it.

[georger 235]

[Georger]
Do a search on past posts on this subject.

Good luck with Mr. Blevins' repetitions of other peoples'
tests, if Blevins follows through at all which I predict is
unlikely. Comparing his results with that of a certified
hydrologist should prove empty again. Crazy

That is what this thread is all about. So be it.
.....................................................................

Come on.

I never said I'd do the water/paper bag/fake currency test on my own. This is something that should be done by a group of interested people. And first they have to agree on the parameters for such a test, establishing some sort of controls for the experiment.

[MeyerLouie 5]

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On the water test with a bag for the money: Not to see where it ends up, but simply how long the bag lasts before the bundles separate because the bag shreds.

Okay. Just making sure -- cause you started out in that direction but then mentioned that it might end up at Tena Bar. Trying to keep the experiments straight.

I actually think testing the paper bag might be an interesting experiment. The outcome might surprise us all.

But remember - there's paper bags and then there are paper bags - so to maintain as much validity as possible -- considering we don't have much in the way of controls and such -- you can't just buy the dollar store brand - get some that vary in strength.

And it should be the Columbia. I hate to mention it since I know we have fishing folks on this forum, but there might be something in the Columbia that erodes paper faster than say a mountain stream would??

That whole test idea was a lightweight suggestion, but if you were REALLY going to do it, it would have to be done (as you said) using different type bags from several different start locations. The bags and the bundles of fake cash should all be marked with a return address/phone number/email where finders can report what they found and what condition it was in. Citizen Sleuths might be able to make suggestions.

As far as what type of paper to use, you can't buy blank currency paper, of course. But you could use something close, like fine linen writing paper of a poundage closest to currency paper weight. Definitely heavier than your standard 20-lb bond.

__________________________________________________

Has anyone thought about the size of the bag? Was the bag the size of a little sandwich paper sack or was it the size of a big grocery bag, or something in between? Do we know the actual size of the paper sack DBC had? I need to check the trancripts to see if Tina or Schaeffner talked about the size of the paper sack DBC had. It seems to me the bag size could have varying effects on portability and buoyancy.

Be that as it may, I don't see what floating 3 money bundles in a paper bag down the Columbia River would accomplish -- besides next to nothing. Unless the 3 bundles are bundled together, it seem pretty clear that the paper bag would deteriorate rather quickly and the money bundles would break out and float independently of each other, thereby making it virtually impossible for the bundles to end up stacked together at Tena's Bar. Moreover, how does this scenario explain the tattered, frayed, worn condition of the bills found at Tenas' Bar? Floating in a paper sack for a few days ain't gonna do it.

I may not have it completely right, but didn't Farflung offer a possible scenario not too long ago? I like it best of all.

Maybe, just maybe, the money bag got damaged --a tear or a rip -- on impact or while floating down the Columbia River. A well-timed flood event brought the money bag to Tena's Bar and caused three bundles of money to be expunged from the damaged bag there at Tena's Bar. When the same flood event receded, it took the remainder of the money bag and its contents back out into the River, where the damaged bag was eventually caught up in the River current again and eventually swept out to sea. If this is what happened,

That's the jist of it, give or take some important, significant details. I hope I didn't butcher it up too badly. Incidentally, I looked for Farflung's explanation on the thread a whlle back, but I didn't find it -- yet anyway.

I like it...it offers a possible explanation for the tattered, torn, and worn condition of the bills found at Tena's Bar. Tumbling in the River bottom for months, getting snagged up along the way for months at a time. would certainly do the job. Most theories about the money-find seem to simply ignore, or put little importance on, this little crucial piece of evidence -- the tattered, torn, and worn condition of the T-Bar bills. The bills couldn't have become so worn and tattered overnight.

MeyerLouie

[georger 235]

Next you'll be claiming that the FBI didn't record the numbers on the money, either. And my name isn't 'Blevnoss,See..I know YOUR name. And I even spelled it right. This is mine: B-L-E-V-I-N-S.

Complaint filed to moderator -

My comparing you to Knoss is no reason for you to
post my name - AGAIN! - in violation of the rules.

Remove my name from your post.

[377 21]

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ORDERS LEFT!
POST ONLY IN RED. DO NOT RESPOND TO POSTING...say nothing NEW not approved by VIP's!

I had a WONDERFUL day!
Time to ROLL!

Georger & Smoking are the only ones even CLOSE!

Jo is taking "orders" from "VIPs"?

Of course she tells us about it in teases and riddles.

Jo, instead of red boldfaced riddles why not use plain language, colors and fonts?

How did anybody get you to accept "orders" about what you post? Regardless, it seems to have improved your outlook and injected some optimism.

Tease on Jo. Tease in red. Tease in boldface. Ignore the posts of others, as ordered by the VIPs.

Why communicate when you can just broadcast?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 235]

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ORDERS LEFT!
POST ONLY IN RED. DO NOT RESPOND TO POSTING...say nothing NEW not approved by VIP's!

I had a WONDERFUL day!
Time to ROLL!

Georger & Smoking are the only ones even CLOSE!

Jo is taking "orders" from "VIPs"?

Of course she tells us about it in teases and riddles.

Jo, instead of red boldfaced riddles why not use plain language, colors and fonts?

How did anybody get you to accept "orders" about what you post? Regardless, it seems to have improved your outlook and injected some optimism.

Tease on Jo. Tease in red. Tease in boldface. Ignore the posts of others, as ordered by the VIPs.

Why communicate when you can just broadcast?

377

It's the mu rays from meteorites in paper bags,
floating down the Columbia to Tina Bar.

But also Nicolaus Copernicus' 540th birthday, which
some who post here have been celebrating every year
of for 540 years.

[zlzinter 0]

I posted a couple photos of Norton Thomas on Vintage photos...blue plane

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[georger 235]

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Next you'll be claiming that the FBI didn't record the numbers on the money, either. And my name isn't 'Blevnoss,See..I know YOUR name. And I even spelled it right. This is mine: B-L-E-V-I-N-S.

Complaint filed to moderator -

My comparing you to Knoss is no reason for you to
post my name - AGAIN! - in violation of the rules.

Remove my name from your post.

Let's be realistic. You are heavily featured by name in the biggest book so far published about DB Cooper. Everyone knows who you are. You are even listed in the index...

If the moderator wants to remove the post, that's up to him and I don't have a problem with it. However, I think you should stop comparing me to Bob Knoss. The guy is certifiable.

Very clearly you have violated and changed the rules
of this forum and have been allowed to do so, so far.

Geoff Gray said you would and were nothing but trouble.

That we are even discussing this speaks for itself.
It's not the first time "rules" have come up at
Dropzone. And not the first time DZ has taken a
hit because of some Narcissist who takes center
stage.

Are you going to publish others' names who post
here, too? How about I follow you example and do it ?

How far are you and this forum prepared to go with
this, now that YOU are in charge of all of us and
Dropzone?

Let's start with 377, Mark.

How far do you intend to take this forum in bottom
feeding with people's personal information, Mr
Blevins. It begins with people's names some of which
you have. You have asked people here their names
several times. Can we trust RobertMBlevins with
people's personal information here? How about your
personal information, Mr. Blevins?

Now that you have started this how far do you intend
to go, and with who? Do some people get anonymity
and others don't. Your shifting friends list? Your group
versus another group?

Gray said you would cause trouble, and you are.

You demanded when you first arrived here that
everyone should be using their real names
here and you have consistently tried to collect
people's real names and identities since being here,
whether people liked it or not! Once Mr. Gray broke his
agreement in retaliation against me and Tom and
published my name, you were quick to use my name
here - creating a storm.

What applies for me must apply for other, as you
have demanded to be consistent.

The names and addresses and perhaps some
personal information of every person who posts here
is what you want, and perhaps their contact info. also?

Do you and Mr Gray intend to now post that here or
publish it elsewhere, along with some personal info
about yourself, in the name of Equity ?

Then why not just publish the names of every person
who posts at Dropzone, anywhere?

You have opened this Pandora box. I hope you are
now ready to live with it! And Mr. Gray likewise.

[skyjack71 0]

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I know what I am saying. I am saying tests have
been done, several times at least. By professionals
and amateurs. New tests within the last two years.
Jerry Thomas also posted previously saying that
he did a series of tests, whatever the truth of that is.
As most people here know, Thomas claimed to have
released objects in the Washougal and had them
arrive at Tina Bar!

SafecrackingPLF was specifically concerned with float
tests on bills and bundles and paper bags in the
Columbia current. He defined
several experiments.

Money thrown in the river would have had to have been bundled in a protective way before it arrived at Tena's bar!

Could the money have been put there just below the tree line about 17 to 18 ft in 1979 ????

What kind of condition would one expect to find the money in 1980???? With BOTH senarios.

What did Palmer propose?

His opinion has been ignored for yrs!

Use your noggins! The answer is pretty simple - the money was NOT in the water or on the river bank for 8 yrs! The money had some deterioration in a humid or damp area for several yrs and when Cooper retrived it the condition made the money unspendable! So what could he do with it? TOSS IT! BURY IT! - Maybe Both!

All I can say!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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However, I think you should stop comparing me to Bob Knoss. The guy is certifiable.

What goes around comes around!

Knoss is CERTIFIABLE!

Blevin is FLAPPING like a FISH out of WATER!

JT can only throw STONES!

Smoking and Georger - are ON TO SOMETHING!

377 & Meyer are fishing!

Jo - Well is she a CERTIFIABLE story teller or liar?

The money tells Cooper's Story!

Gray Crawled into a hole and set up the tomato cans!

One need not ask WHY!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 48]

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Money thrown in the river would have had to have been bundled in a protective way before it arrived at Tena's bar!

Could the money have been put there just below the tree line about 17 to 18 ft in 1979 ????

What kind of condition would one expect to find the money in 1980???? With BOTH senarios.

What did Palmer propose?

His opinion has been ignored for yrs!

Use your noggins! The answer is pretty simple - the money was NOT in the water or on the river bank for 8 yrs! The money had some deterioration in a humid or damp area for several yrs and when Cooper retrived it the condition made the money unspendable! So what could he do with it? TOSS IT! BURY IT! - Maybe Both!

All I can say!

Jo, What is "Could the money have been put there just below the tree line about 17 to 18 feet in 1979 ????" suppose to mean?

Robert99

[quade 4]

Keep it cool, boy.

Real cool.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 21]

Who said Q was gone?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

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Keep it cool, boy.

Real cool.

I am all for that, which I'll assume means me. On a more positive note, webmaster Sangiro says he has enabled online images for this thread now. Anyone figured out how to do it yet? I couldn't manage it from the instructions.

like this...

[inline cooper1.jpg]

Upload attachment as per usual - make sure it has naming convention as suggested in instructions (no spaces, etc) then enclose in brackets the following: inline your_picture_name.jpg

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Robert99 48]

Blevins,

Your post had exactly nothing to do with my question to Jo about some of her claims.

You just reposted things that you had proposed about a week ago and which didn't make it very far up the chain of possible explanations.

Robert99

[Robert99 48]

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Who said Q was gone?

377

That was Jo Weber doing some of her pontifications.

Jo, Is your resignation also effective on February 28th?

Robert99

[Robert99 48]

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Blevins,

Your post had exactly nothing to do with my question to Jo about some of her claims.

You just reposted things that you had proposed about a week ago and which didn't make it very far up the chain of possible explanations.

Robert99

Well, I don't have any real explanations on how the money arrived at Tena Bar. Someone buried it, it washed up somehow, it was dredged there. I just have no definitive idea. Theories, yes. But that's all they are, and they are not supported by proof.

Frankly, there are too many unknowns. I proposed that if the Amboy chute was really Cooper's, then this could narrow possibilities. Some folks said they believe the FBI's explanation and that this idea is a non-starter. (that the chute could be from the hijacking) Okay.

I remind people that about 18 months ago they also forwarded Marla Cooper as a 'viable witness' with little or no evidence to demonstrate that. And since that time, Marla has withdrawn a portion of her initial claims. I got that last bit from speaking to the folks at KickAss Oregon History. I didn't say that to somehow 'discredit' Marla, (although it's true I don't believe her version of events) but to show the FBI hasn't always been right in the Cooper case.

Inline imaging: Still couldn't figure it out. Is this code inserted into the text of the post? Sounds easy. I'm probably missing something.

Blevins, Your first sentence above says it all. While you offer several possibilities, there are others. And again, even if the Amboy parachute is Cooper's, it doesn't explain how the money got to Tena Bar. As stated last week, the Amboy parachute actually eliminates the possibility of a connection between it and the money.

Robert99

[377 21]

I love old propliners.

First pic is 377 jumping from a WW2 vintage C54 that had been converted into an ATL 98 CARVAIR double decker freighter. The CARVAIR carried automobiles on the lower deck that were loaded through a huge nose door and carried passengers in an area on the top deck behind the cockpit. Two Carvairs appear in the Bond movie Goldfinger.


[inline image.jpg]


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.