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quade

DB Cooper

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I asked the question because too many times it has come down to things like this - where later if it is quoted again - NO one knew who said what.

Was contacted privately regarding this about 18 months ago and had to go back thru the thread - to see who said what.

Often you will see me take a post you have made and state:
Bk stated:
Jo stated:
Matt stated:

I have been doing this mostly since you came aboard - because you do a reply with a quote....but this "quote" has more than the one person's statement and the persons are not identified or separated. It becomes a WHO"S on BASE game...and causes a lot of confusion and arguments and unnecessary posts....not to mention discreditation and others saying this person change their story. Doing a Quote and Reply can get iffy with a quote and reply within the text - like I said it is unclear who said what.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I asked the question because too many times it has come down to things like this - where later if it is quoted again - NO one knew who said what.

Was contacted privately regarding this about 18 months ago and had to go back thru the thread - to see who said what.

Often you will see me take a post you have made and state:
Bk stated:
Jo stated:
Matt stated:

I have been doing this mostly since you came aboard - because you do a reply with a quote....but this "quote" has more than the one person's statement and the persons are not identified or separated. It becomes a WHO"S on BASE game...and causes a lot of confusion and arguments and unnecessary posts....not to mention discreditation and others saying this person change their story. Doing a Quote and Reply can get iffy with a quote and reply within the text - like I said it is unclear who said what.



Ah, so you did know what was going on.

Thank You for clearing that up.

Of course the whole "Re:[skyjack71] Scrambled Eggs for All." is pretty clear who is being replied to, just like all the other posts.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Robert99

You say, "If he knew so much about the 727 aft stairs, why did he have to ask one of the flight attendants how to put the stairs down?"

I believe that Sheridan experienced a door with differential pressure across it that kept him from opening it. The Flight Attendant Tina was able to do it shortly after when the differential pressure was less. Sheridan then was able to throw the handle for the airstair to gravity fall into place and float on the airstream.

The Smoking Gun is the DNA on the four letters to the newspapers. If the FBI gets a match with Sheridan, it would blow his whole Nepal alibi apart. It would place him at the scene of the crime and not in Nepal. The FBI could close this case very quickly if they would compare the DNA.

Bob Sailshaw

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Ah, so you did know what was going on.

Thank You for clearing that up.

Of course the whole "Re:[skyjack71] Scrambled Eggs for All." is pretty clear who is being replied to, just like all the other posts.

Matt



No you are not the only one to do this. Yours are just harder for me to figure out...and I have to ask. It happened really bad with another poster - until I started to repeat the posts with he said and she said to prove I didn't make the statement I was being accused of.

Sorry if you are offended by a simple question for clarification.. You guys are getting awfully touchy lately.

Computers and the use of certain programs are still very difficult for me. Georger was pleasantly surprised when I actually figured out how to scan a photo and put it on the site.
Little did he know HOW long it took me to figure that out and how long it took me.

Now that I have a different printer/scanner - I am unable to do what I did then...it is crap, but all I could afford.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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But YOU do know everything don't you? Did you learn all of the above by astral projection or did you actually attend classes on the subject during your last visit by UFO to Pluto?

I would suggest that you take a closer look at the actual meaning of the word "entropy". In reality, it only refers to the energy in the universe that is not available for use. And entropy is constantly increasing due to the simple fact that no physical process is 100 percent efficent. Thus, the energy lost due to inefficiency becomes a part of the entropy.

The end result of all this is that the earth is doomed to die a "heat" death. But the human race will die long before that happens.

On the matter of the transcripts, perhaps you noticed that all communications between Cooper and the cockpit were by notes relayed by Tina or by Tina on the interphone. Only after Cooper sent Tina to the cockpit, did he use the interphone himself.

And Tina had shown him how to operate the stairs before she went forward. But despite that, Cooper needed additional instructions until he was finally able to get the stairs down.

And your allegations are that Cooper was pretending to be ignorant of how the stairs operate so that he could end up about 75 miles or so further down the airway from where he obviously wanted to jump (which was close to Seattle).



Ok. From Transcript T1, quote:

"6:21pm
305: WE HAVE INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE
INDIVIDUAL. He wants Nr 305 to go to Mexico City
with gear down and flaps at 15 degrees after
under way. All lights to be turned out in aircraft.
Cannot land in USA for fuel or any other reason. No
crew member is to go aft or class section curtain.

MSPFLTOPS: Roger. Even if full tanks you cannot
land in Mexico City.

305: Roger. Aft passenger loading door will be open
and will remain in that position and aft stairs to be
lowered after takeoff.

MSPFLTOPS: The drag will be such that you cannot
make Mexico border even with aft stairs up.

305: Roger. Will have to negotiate with him and will
have to stop for fuel.

305: Girls are not off yet. Senior girl stationed on aft
side of the cockpit in her seat remaining seated.
2nd girl in forward rear seat in C section told not to
get up. 3rd girl (Mucklow) is intermediary and sitting
with the individual.

MSPFLTOPS: the plane is operable with the aft stairs
extended.

305. Roger?

MSPFLTOPS: You just cannot make it with the flaps
down. Our guess is you can only go for two and a
half hours, as far as can go. That would be Frisco
under that drag condition.

305: Roger. Will talk to him again.

No mention of Tina in any of the above, opening
doors or lowering stairs for Cooper, etc. Those
arrangements came later.

Obviously his demands had been communicated to
the crew, somehow by somebody.

As for the rest of your rabid bloviation - not every
empty Big Mac bag thrown on the side of the road
contains a meal.

Learn to take a joke. I guess one would have to
recognise one first! Hows your tomatoes?

:D

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But YOU do know everything don't you? Did you learn all of the above by astral projection or did you actually attend classes on the subject during your last visit by UFO to Pluto?

I would suggest that you take a closer look at the actual meaning of the word "entropy". In reality, it only refers to the energy in the universe that is not available for use. And entropy is constantly increasing due to the simple fact that no physical process is 100 percent efficent. Thus, the energy lost due to inefficiency becomes a part of the entropy.

The end result of all this is that the earth is doomed to die a "heat" death. But the human race will die long before that happens.

On the matter of the transcripts, perhaps you noticed that all communications between Cooper and the cockpit were by notes relayed by Tina or by Tina on the interphone. Only after Cooper sent Tina to the cockpit, did he use the interphone himself.

And Tina had shown him how to operate the stairs before she went forward. But despite that, Cooper needed additional instructions until he was finally able to get the stairs down.

And your allegations are that Cooper was pretending to be ignorant of how the stairs operate so that he could end up about 75 miles or so further down the airway from where he obviously wanted to jump (which was close to Seattle).



Ok. From Transcript T1, quote:

"6:21pm
305: WE HAVE INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE
INDIVIDUAL. He wants Nr 305 to go to Mexico City
with gear down and flaps at 15 degrees after
under way. All lights to be turned out in aircraft.
Cannot land in USA for fuel or any other reason. No
crew member is to go aft or class section curtain.

MSPFLTOPS: Roger. Even if full tanks you cannot
land in Mexico City.

305: Roger. Aft passenger loading door will be open
and will remain in that position and aft stairs to be
lowered after takeoff.

MSPFLTOPS: The drag will be such that you cannot
make Mexico border even with aft stairs up.

305: Roger. Will have to negotiate with him and will
have to stop for fuel.

305: Girls are not off yet. Senior girl stationed on aft
side of the cockpit in her seat remaining seated.
2nd girl in forward rear seat in C section told not to
get up. 3rd girl (Mucklow) is intermediary and sitting
with the individual.

MSPFLTOPS: the plane is operable with the aft stairs
extended.

305. Roger?

MSPFLTOPS: You just cannot make it with the flaps
down. Our guess is you can only go for two and a
half hours, as far as can go. That would be Frisco
under that drag condition.

305: Roger. Will talk to him again.

No mention of Tina in any of the above, opening
doors or lowering stairs for Cooper, etc. Those
arrangements came later.

Obviously his demands had been communicated to
the crew, somehow by somebody.

As for the rest of your rabid bloviation - not every
empty Big Mac bag thrown on the side of the road
contains a meal.

Learn to take a joke. I guess one would have to
recognise one first! Hows your tomatoes?

:D

So you are stating that all of your posts are nothing but "bloviations" and "jokes". What brought about your sudden epidemic of honesty?

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Robert99

You say, "If he knew so much about the 727 aft stairs, why did he have to ask one of the flight attendants how to put the stairs down?"

"And Tina had shown him how to operate the stairs before she went forward. But despite that, Cooper needed additional instructions until he was finally able to get the stairs down."

QUOTE: "Don't worry about the stairs. The stewardesses are trained to do that. Just get them do to do it for you." "How do I do that?" "Just ask them." Those are the exact words that were used in the training of Duane Weber in the summer of 1968. So help me, God!

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Obviously his demands had been communicated to
the crew, somehow by somebody."

Try the two or three missing notes from Cooper, the first hand written by McCoy. Got put in Co-Pilot's brief case that the FBI never searched. One was given to a California reporter. See, it pays to know everything.

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"As for the rest of your rabid bloviation - not every
empty Big Mac bag thrown on the side of the road
contains a meal."

McDonalds bags usually have one bite out of the burger and all the fries are gone. Burger King bags only have fries and Wendy's bags are always empty. I quit road walking and just to to Wendy's right away. Got an EggMcMuffin that was really bad. Hot horseradish!

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Georger the thread needs your help:
Can you help this thread get back to facts and dispell some of the myths created by posters on this thread - myths about the actual recorded fact as the crime took place.

Georger you have become the official FACT Keeper.

I understand ony ONE note was written by Cooper and then handed to the Stewardess. I understood Cooper retrived that handwritten note.

Is that correct?


Cooper's demand were taken by Tina and written by Tina.

Is that correct?

These demand where made verbally by Cooper and written by Tina.

Is this correct?

These kind of things are trivial, but seem to be the very things another poster dwells on and uses such posts to incriminate one of the crew. One individual
has tried multiple times to change the FACTS of the crime itself and incriminate innocent individuals in the process.

I thought it was clearly stated that Tina took notes regarding
Cooper's demands in her own handwriting. If any notes written by Cooper had survived - finding Cooper would be a piece of cake with today's technology.

Am I correct?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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As for the rest of your rabid bloviation - not every
empty Big Mac bag thrown on the side of the road
contains a meal.

Learn to take a joke. I guess one would have to
recognise one first! Hows your tomatoes?

:D



So you are stating that all of your posts are nothing but "bloviations" and "jokes". What brought about your sudden epidemic of honesty?

Is this your best! ?

The illegals coming in across you back yard mustbe
keeping you up nights. Maybe you are headed the
other direction?

B|

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As for the rest of your rabid bloviation - not every
empty Big Mac bag thrown on the side of the road
contains a meal.

Learn to take a joke. I guess one would have to
recognise one first! Hows your tomatoes?

:D



So you are stating that all of your posts are nothing but "bloviations" and "jokes". What brought about your sudden epidemic of honesty?

Is this your best! ?

The illegals coming in across you back yard mustbe
keeping you up nights. Maybe you are headed the
other direction?

B|

It is good enough for you. You don't deserve my "best".

The illegals don't come across my back yard. They come down the road that is on the other side of my back yard fence.

About a year ago, this same road permitted fire trucks to operate between my house and a wild fire. And the fire trucks were able to keep the fire from getting closer than about 200 feet upwind of my house. Although I did get a lot of ashes and smoke.

So it serves as a road to riches for the illegals and a desperately needed fire break for me.

At various times, I have considered going the other way.

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Every thing I have been able to read so far, hard to sort through the second and third hand articles, straight up lunacy and web theories that come fro m out of no where, seems to point to one note "Cooper" had with him on arrival.

All additional "notes" from the Stewardess acting as a relay.

Nothing supports this claim made in this thread by some one: "Try the two or three missing notes from Cooper, the first hand written by McCoy. Got put in Co-Pilot's brief case that the FBI never searched. One was given to a California reporter. See, it pays to know everything."

But another liable tidbit was made.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Every thing I have been able to read so far, hard to sort through the second and third hand articles, straight up lunacy and web theories that come fro m out of no where, seems to point to one note "Cooper" had with him on arrival.

All additional "notes" from the Stewardess acting as a relay.

Nothing supports this claim made in this thread by some one: "Try the two or three missing notes from Cooper, the first hand written by McCoy. Got put in Co-Pilot's brief case that the FBI never searched. One was given to a California reporter. See, it pays to know everything."

But another liable tidbit was made.

Matt




Seems like we are all in agreement except for a certain 'someone' - there was only one NOTE and Cooper retrived that note.

Therefore NO way the FBI can do a handwriting analysis like
"MORE than ONE someone" thinks can be done.

The letters sent to the media are null and void, unless someone can produce handwriting/printing samples dated from 1971 from a suspect that matches any of the letters sent to the media. I nor anyone who has looked at handwritten items I have from Duane Weber found NO matches to any of the supposed notes sent to the media by Cooper.

We found only similarities in the formation of some letters printed on an envelope sent to the Reno Newpaper...not enough to do anything with. Anyone putting their faith of solving this case on those letters is very slim.

Perhaps DNA could be extracted from the envelopes and the letters themselves, but the FBI has not acknowledged to the public this was never done - not to my knowledge.

I suggest if the FBI did so, they would also need familial DNA from other individuals who may have had knowledge of the deed after the fact. The handwriting samples I have of another individual who could have been involved after the fact - are written with no printing...so I never went any further with that exploration.

Note I am not a handwriting expert...that is a given.

What I and others did find was the sytac used by letters supposedly written by Clara and Cooper in Max's book do match other letters written at a much later day by Weber and his companion of the days.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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"Seems like we are all in agreement except for a certain 'someone' - there was only one NOTE and Cooper retrived that note."

Based on testimony by the party in question?? PPFFTT. My information is top shelf. Doesn't get any higher. You are in error. The notes still exist. McCoy wrote one.

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"Seems like we are all in agreement except for a certain 'someone' - there was only one NOTE and Cooper retrived that note."

Based on testimony by the party in question?? PPFFTT. My information is top shelf. Doesn't get any higher. You are in error. The notes still exist. McCoy wrote one.




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;)Himmelsbach or someone went over the head of the Seattle case manager regarding Cooper in 1980. Who had jurisdiction - Seattle or Portland? The find was in Vancouver? Who went to the media about the find and why was the Seattle office not made aware of the find before it hit the media?

I believe Georger replied with the answer below:

"The senior Vancouver agent was very competent and informed - had actually studied the Cooper
case. Vancouver was a small two person office and the agent in charge there was long tenured.

Portland stepped in immediately to assist and did the initial interviewing and locked the scene down at Tina Bar. Seattle agents were dispatched
also. By February 14th (if not sooner) everything was being managed out of the Seattle office. It was the Seattle office who technically managed the
excavation at Tina Bar and all evidence collected."

WHEW!
Mind is going crazy tonight: Remember the article in the U.S. News and World report dated in 2000 about Duane leaving prints on the aft stairs? For some reason writing about the money find my mind to drifted to the judge who told Galen Cook that Gossett came to him with information about leaving prints on the plane long after the article appeared in the US News and World Reports.

Duane had the nightmare and screamed out "I left my prints on the AFT stairs" - before July of 1978 while we were still living in Littleton CO. I didn't know AFT stairs was about planes (he said it was something from jail). I didn't know he had been in jail but, he explained it away as to having got in some trouble with a couple of guy and I assumed county lock-up for a few wks.

For some reason as I re-live my past with Duane along with my subsequent involvement in this case thru this thread and others, I realize how much others have used me and incorporated the things I have told the media and the FBI into "their" story.

Galen Cook's story regarding Gossett's claim of leaving prints on the plane to a judge - was AFTER he read about Duane's dream in a 2000 magazine article by Doug Pasternak. A fact I had told Doug - 2 or 3 yrs before 2000 - it took the FBI lieing to me and almost 3 yrs to get me to go public. I told him the same story I had been telling the FBI since 1996 - so the FBI should have records of this "dream" story.

You guys accuse me of making things up - My story about Duane was made public in 2000 long before Cook's story about Gossett consulting a judge about leaving prints on the plane.

Which came first the horse or the wagon. In this case the horse was Jo Weber telling her story about Duane Weber. REMEMBER this - I was talking to Doug for 2 yrs before I allowed him to do the article - had the FBI not have lied to me about McNeil and the army records - NO ONE would ever have heard about Duane Weber or the puzzle he left behind.

WHY does Cook's story mirror the story I told to Doug a couple of yrs BEFORE I decided to go public in 2000? Also the SAME story I told to the FBI and Himmelsbach?

If this look back does not leave some questions in the mind those genuinely trying to find the truth - then I don't know what will.

I know I do not win brownie points saying the FBI lied to me, but I tired of hearing the things I told them had been ignored...and the next agent would have NO knowledge of what I had discussed with the prior agent or another agent I spoke to on the phone.

P.S. Cooks suspect came to him by way of Gossett's son after Cook spoke on Coast to Coast about his search for Cooper.

Now I will applaud myself since NO one else is going to do so. I hate the FBI and the HELL they have put me thru for 17 yrs with their hush hush and multiple suspects and what seems to be a contrived dismissal - when the only logical suspect in 40 yrs has been Duane Lorin Weber.

OKAY - now I said it!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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"Seems like we are all in agreement except for a certain 'someone' - there was only one NOTE and Cooper retrived that note."

Based on testimony by the party in question?? PPFFTT. My information is top shelf. Doesn't get any higher. You are in error. The notes still exist. McCoy wrote one.






I see what ya did there!:D

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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So we have four suspects?

Two who had the knowledge and skills. Neither can be placed in the States at the time?

One who might have had the knowledge, but no clue as to the skills. Was in the region at the time.

One we can't confirm if he had the knowledge or skills, and can't be placed in the region at the time.

We have one note from the hijacker, one hijacker, and one hijacked plane.

Four Parachutes, not all real and air worthy.

One bag of $200,000 delivered, and a small percentage of it found many years later on a river bank.

Iffy weather with several ceilings from ground level to flight level, making a clear view (in either direction) spotty at best.

And other than the actual physical evidence in the dusty old file box, no new info to go off of.

Seems we should have this done before the Buffalo Steaks are finished resting up!

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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I shared things with Larry Carr never shared with his office:

Duane Weber was arrested Nov 25, 1944 for forgery of U.S. Treasury. He was young and had been kicked out of both the Navy and the Army. He violated the condition of his release from jail by fleeing to Illinois.

He committed petit larceny in Ill and sentenced to the county jail. They found a warrant on him from CA and ship him back to San Francisco. This was Jan 8, 1945. On Jan 23, 1945 he is sentenced to 18 months at McNeil and received on Feb 2, 1945 - but he was born in 1924 and not 1920 as his ID as the courts had him recorded. They list his age as 24. He is only 19 yrs old & in federal prison. FAMILY FRIENDS intervened & Duane was release to a special program within wks, yet the FBI in 2000 claimed Weber was never in McNeil. Duh! and the McNeil file is what Carr yrs later claimed as a reference point for Weber's fingerprints. Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing or what it was intended to for?

It is stated he was eligible for parole in July 22 1945 and then he appears in CA in Aug of 1945 at a camp in the mts near his parents. I know he was in the Placerville area and near Tahoe. Duane mentioned "they" the guys lived on Seventeenth or Eighteenth Rd in a small town between Tahoe and Placerville.

Duane Weber around 1984/85 showed me this same photo in a book that I later found on line and was again directed to by Snowmman. This was a picture of Leo Harder, Melvin Flickenger and Karl Unruh at a CPS's camp.
The camp was in the same area Duane had shown me and told me about in 1979 when we made the side trip to Tahoe after we leave Seattle in 1979.

I traced the photo before it was ever on the thread. All I got was dead ends. Leo Harder was already deceased and I could not trace Max Miller or Melvin (Marvin) Duerkson (Doerksen). Snowmman saw what I saw or knew what I knew - one man did NOT exist and the families told me their Uncle never was in CA. Photo recognition indicates the boy in the Camino Camp and the Navy Photo of Weber are one and the same. All Carr did with this was pitch it. (I sent him hard high quality photos). I still remember the day Snowmman put these pictures on the thread - the same picture I had in my file for a CPS site (one I had been shown by Duane yrs and yrs before)...but in a book not on the computer.

Duane showed me a book with the pic of the 5 guys in approx 1984 and stated 3 of them went on to Mt. Hood...and stating there was a pic of him in that book, but someone had cut it out. At that time I thought one of the guys resembled Weber, but I had NEVER seen a photo of Duane as a young man until 1996 or 1997 - after his death the brother and sister sent me what I have.

I believe the photos from the camp posted below are actually Weber - he only stated to me there was a photo of him in the book, but someone had torn out. I have never found the actual book the pictures appeared in...but, the resemblance and photo studies are enough for me until proven wrong.

The foreman was Joe Bauman. They housed paroled individuals also to help them get back in to the world with a trade - Duane was trained in forestry.

The picture Duane showed me was NOT exactly like the pic displayed, because the one Duane showed me had just a little more of the truck in it. I remembered this because I quizzed Duane about the truck.

The FBI ignored me before and I dumped it on Carr but, he ignored it...I seriously doubt Carr showed those pics to a photo recognition expert along with young photos of Weber or tried to fine the source of the book it was orginally published in.

When Duane showed me the pic in an old book in the mid 80's he mentioned singing in a choir, but the only time he was in a church with me was when we got married.;) After thought - maybe he didn't mean a choir in a church.

In my talking to some very old jumpers (2 brothers) - those who didn't make the first cut ended up working the camps and in maintence....there was always the wanna be's hanging around.

1962 Prison Release photo
1945 Camino Picture
1943 Navy pic
19?? approx 25 yr
1945 Camino hand on hip stance
1970 Duane hand on hip stance


Anyone wanting higher resolution photos to put on photo recognition just contact me thru my private email address - not the thread. The indication are that all of these pictures are of the same guy. You guess which one is supposed to be Weber in the group photos...not hard to pick him out!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Why in the HELL do I do this.
NO one is listening and NO one cares, but me. No ONE on this THREAD cares and NO one here can do a damn thing about any of it.

The general public does not read this thread and the young people do not even know who Cooper was. The FBI is a bunch of idiots.

I keep hoping beyond all hope that somewhere some place someone is listening and reading....that somewhere there is someone with that final clue - one the FBI will listen to.

Grey wants to make morons out of everyone by letting a comedy be done out of his book - over my dead body! He made me look bad enough in his book (like a low class slut out to pick up a man in a bar) and now he wants me a laughing stock with a TV comedy.

Is that what 35 yrs of my life is worth - a laugh at the expense of myself and my family and then there are other individuals who have given the Cooper thing large chunks of their lives - that is something to LAUGH about! NO one who was interviewed for Grey's book expected a comedy or we would never have granted the interview in the first place.

As I said OVER my DEAD BODY!
If I have to sell my house and live in poverty to fight. My character nor a fictious character who even resembles me and anything about Duane WEBER is off limits....I am not doing this for laughs - I did NOT invest 17 yrs of my life and divulge a 17 yrs marriage to Duane for someone to make all of this a laughing stock matter.

His book was supposed to be an exploration of the crime and subjects - NOT one of us would have submitted to an interview had we seen this coming.

I have tried to take it in stride, but now it is PERSONAL!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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"His book was supposed to be an exploration of the crime and subjects - NOT one of us would have submitted to an interview had we seen this coming."


EXCEPTION!

It is a farce. Always has been. Doesn't make it funny, just a comedy. Funny would be good. Certainly not a "Dial M for Murder" type plot. "Airport" style would be over the top, but "Police Academy" format would work in the conspiracy version. Keystone pilots and Keystone FBI. I'll go along with that.

Peter Sellers isn't on call and I haven't seen a good replacement come along. Johnny Depp could pull it off. So could Sheen.

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