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quade

DB Cooper

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If the stairs
slammed shut creating the pressure spike, how do
they get back down as per the landing at Reno?



Good question. Is it possible that their extension angle was determined by airspeed? When the plane came to a halt on the ground they had no slipstream pushing them upwards.

In the FBI sled test photos (taken from the chase aircraft) the unloaded and loaded stair deflection angles should be visible. I sure wish Ckret had been able to post the video of the sled test.

377




Hominid says:
CONCLUSION

The only stair deployment method that fits what we've been told about the hijacking is the emergency extension method with the normal stair
control handle left in the UP position. Besides detaching the uplock rollers, this would have damaged the latches.

So, they cannot lock after retraction if the latches
have been damaged (as per Hominid above) and,
Blevins confirms when Rat says:

" (Robert B adds: Rataczak also says that the light came back on for the remainder of the flight, so the stairs never actually closed/locked completely, but only enough to turn off the indicator light for a moment at the time of the jump.) "

Answer seems to be: damaged latches.
And it appears Rat confirms in his interview with RobertB.

I hope Hominid is reading this - he obviously would
have thoughts about this analysis?

But damned good work by everyone! Nice piece of
work and very relevant to several issues in this case.

And going clear back to the beginning Larry hit the nail saying: 'Oscillations and bump were separate'.
Snow played a role in that analysis also.

I sure would like to read Hominid's analysis now?

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YOU guys are just out here replacing facts with myths - anyone reading this will never even know the facts of the crime.

Does anyone even re-call that Captain Scott used the intercom before they went down in Reno.
He stated they were making their approach to RENO and informed NO ONE (Coop was gone) that the stairway might substain damage and wanted to know if Coop needed any assistance in getting it back up.


They got NO answer and they took the plane on in to Reno.

When flight 305 landed sparks flew as the rear stairs bounced on the run-way.

Read the news articles of the time - DO you guys think ALL of those journalists got it wrong? Hell, some of them were at the airport when 307 came in for a landing. ARE you guys going to continue to talk to yourselves?

You do NOTHING to advance this case or to solve it. Some of you are interested only in useless Trivia just because you can.. You take eyewitness accounts and continue to dismiss them and replace them with Hypothetical scenarios that DID NOT happen.

What is the purpose of this?
To BURY Cooper in so much GARBAGE he will never be found!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Recently Sluggo was offered a very large collection of old news article - most of which he does NOT have on his site. Sluggo made no reply to the OFFER.

How many of you are going to continue to dispute the eyewitness accounts? How many of you think an accounting made during the commission of a skyjacking - in 1971 is not more creditable than the "things" you guys get lost in. YOU guys are true Junkies - Cooper Junkies.

Georger you are among the worst - and you are supposed to be this great intelligent person who has been allowed privey information by the FBI and who supposedly is an expert to whom the FBI entrusted some of the "found bills" to test.

Right now I would like to know what you are an expert in - perhaps poor judgement and have none of the expertise you claim knowledge of.

I have been referred to as delusional and called a liar many times over the yrs. Well, Georger you and some of the others are LOST in a fantasy world of illusion and trivia.
- OR -
You guys are so caught up in the trivia you lost sight of the goal.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Skyjack71 advises:


“Why don't one of you BRAVE souls who wants to REALLY know the truth - contact the only man alive who can tell you the truth about that aft stairway on that particular plane.”


So far with absolute predictability when an un-attributed source is used, I’m gullible enough to peer down the bottomless pit of DZ information to see if there is something other than Satan’s ass releasing projectile diarrhea towards my face.

Now the ‘only’ man alive who can tell the ‘truth’ about the aft stairs is introduced after the ‘first’ woman ever, in the history of Earth, to drive four Clydesdales abreast was added to the Cooper lexicon. Is there even the slightest chance that these two people could meet in the same room? What sort of energy vortex would be created and how many other problems could be solved with the combination of these two individuals with such unique standings on the planet? This would be big and I mean biblically big where Lake Tahoe turns to gasoline, telemarketers eat their own tongues and municipal water is replaced with beer. Cancer is no more, the blind can see and ‘Dancing with the Stars’ is finally cancelled. Please say yes.

I anxiously await but with hydraulic fluid painted over my door.

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YOU guys are just out here replacing facts with myths - anyone reading this will never even know the facts of the crime.

Does anyone even re-call that Captain Scott used the intercom before they went down in Reno.
He stated they were making their approach to RENO and informed NO ONE (Coop was gone) that the stairway might substain damage and wanted to know if Coop needed any assistance in getting it back up.


They got NO answer and they took the plane on in to Reno.

When flight 305 landed sparks flew as the rear stairs bounced on the run-way.

Read the news articles of the time - DO you guys think ALL of those journalists got it wrong? Hell, some of them were at the airport when 307 came in for a landing. ARE you guys going to continue to talk to yourselves?

You do NOTHING to advance this case or to solve it. Some of you are interested only in useless Trivia just because you can.. You take eyewitness accounts and continue to dismiss them and replace them with Hypothetical scenarios that DID NOT happen.

What is the purpose of this?
To BURY Cooper in so much GARBAGE he will never be found!



Jo, You are the one trying to replace facts with myths!

According to an entry at 10:35 PM PST in the Oakland Center's radio transcripts, Captain Scott tells the Reno tower controller that they are trying to contact Cooper to get the steps up. Earlier they had informed Cooper (or at least tried to) that damage to the stairs in landing at Reno might mean that they couldn't takeoff from there.

No sparks were seen in the landing at Reno. As the aircraft was taxiing to the ramp, the tower did see some sparks from the stairs dragging on the taxiway and reported this to the flight crew at 11:03PM PST.

The damage caused by the stairs dragging on the taxiway was very minor as can be seen from the photograph on Sluggo's web page.

You apparently consider the "journalists" to be better witnesses than the Reno tower controllers.

Again, you are the one who has been interested only in "useless Trivia" and continually ignore eyewitness accounts such as the Reno tower controllers.

And you continue to try to bury Cooper in so much Duane garbage in an apparent effort to prevent Cooper from being found.

Get real!

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Jo,

What's getting you so worked up about the stairs discussion? Nobody here is disputing that they contacted the pavement while landing (or taxying) at Reno. The analysis as to which method was used to initially extend them seems solid and lines up with the crew observations.

You have gone into color text mode, a sure sign of emotional stress.
Take it easy.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Recently Sluggo was offered a very large collection of old news article - most of which he does NOT have on his site. Sluggo made no reply to the OFFER.

How many of you are going to continue to dispute the eyewitness accounts? How many of you think an accounting made during the commission of a skyjacking - in 1971 is not more creditable than the "things" you guys get lost in. YOU guys are true Junkies - Cooper Junkies.

Georger you are among the worst - and you are supposed to be this great intelligent person who has been allowed privey information by the FBI and who supposedly is an expert to whom the FBI entrusted some of the "found bills" to test.

Right now I would like to know what you are an expert in - perhaps poor judgement and have none of the expertise you claim knowledge of.

I have been referred to as delusional and called a liar many times over the yrs. Well, Georger you and some of the others are LOST in a fantasy world of illusion and trivia.
- OR -
You guys are so caught up in the trivia you lost sight of the goal.



Jo, Were you the one who made the offer?

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Jo,

What's getting you so worked up about the stairs discussion?

377



Remember your comment about how nice it was that the discussion was getting Cooper-centered again... This is exactly why we go off-track. Because all that Jo cares about is her idea that weber was Cooper (funny how she accuses others of propagating myths) and as georger has pointed out before she has an uncanny knack of being able to shut down intelligent conversation here.

Don't let her do it again guys!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Skyjack71 references reporter’s accuracy with:


“Read the news articles of the time - DO you guys think ALL of those journalists got it wrong? Hell, some of them were at the airport when 307 came in for a landing. ARE you guys going to continue to talk to yourselves?”


I’m not sure if all the reporters got it wrong but I think the ones in Reno who were eye witness to 307 landing would have written the best articles about Flight 307 and what it must have been like to be a crewmember on 307. There was nothing wrong with the reporting or any news articles on Flight 307 since editors and fact checkers would have made sure that what was going out to the public about 307 was accurate and righteous.

Same is true for the last man alive who can tell the ‘truth’ about the aft stairs. Logic would infer that Rataczak and Anderson are two surviving men from Cooper’s flight but apparently something has happened to eliminate one of them from consideration.

1. One of them has since died.

2. One of them will not tell the truth about the aft stairs.

3. Both are still alive but neither will tell the truth.

4. Both are dead.

5. One living knows what the dead one said and that is the truth.

6. This is a new un-attributed source of information and will contain pure truth as all proceeding examples have with violent consistency and will not go ignored where the progenitor of this source realizes they have stepped in it yet again because the world is not filled with empty vessels who will swallow anything that is presented repeatedly and with faux authority and puffing.

Some subjects are truly upsetting and should be avoided. Aft stairs and the complex mechanics which only one person can possibly understand should never be typed about again and one’s hands should be ceremoniously washed if the word aft or stair is accidentally typed then deleted. Another is the already sullied subject of dredging which has been talked about before and solved with the one person who holds all the knowledge on this as well. When will we learn that it is best to listen to the one source, one person, ONE LEADER?!

BS Macht Frei

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Belvins' offer of a free download of his book is downright generous and for that I thank him.

The least I can do to reciprocate is buy him some beer at the Ariel Tavern and I plan to do just that.

When I read the 727 system manual I am struck with how much thought went into backup systems and fail safe or fail gently and recoverable designs. The 727 would weigh a LOT less without all that "safety stuff".

People fly around all the time in single engine private planes, but the FAA will never approve a large single engine passenger aircraft. Too bad, I think the public shold be able to take risks that save money if they are fully informed. There was an interesting fuel efficient design kicked around a few years ago for an airliner with one big engine tail mounted and a much smaller one below it, like center engine position on a DC 10 or L 1011. The plane could taxy on the small engine and start the big one right before takeoff. If the main engine failed the small one would deliver enough thrust to maintain level flight at lower altitudes and give the plane at least one shot at a landing.

I dont mind flying in risky jumpships once they get high enough for everyone to exit and deploy their chutes. I've had a few white knuckle moments in tired old Lodestars and Twin Beeches struggling to get off the ground on a hot day with a heavy load. I've grown older and wiser and decline those loads now days. I sat one out at WFFC when the ATL 98 Carvair (DC 4 double decker mod) did a mid day load with air temps at around 98 degrees. They used up literally every inch of runway at Rantoul and damn near clipped the trees trying to climb out. If one engine had failed or even had a power reduction at this phase of the flight there would have been a disaster.

Farflung must be some kind academic or reearch scholar with all this emphasis on verifying sources. My history professor was just like him. "Without a proper citation you might as well just make up your facts" he lectured us. My classmate, a fellow skydiver, leaned over and whispered "f**k him, I don't have time for that. I'll just make up my citations.";)

I do wish a real scholar would write the definitive DB Cooper book, separating rumor from fact, checking and verifying sources, all that stuff that Farflung likes. I'd buy one.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I’m not an academic 377 because I still like girls. But I am a student of human behavior and have arrived at a few rough conclusions about the permanence and ubiquitous nature of insecurities and vanity. I’m only interested in Cooper, in the Cooper story and not any of the bat shit crazies who must weave themselves into the tale. It’s a shame and does nothing for accuracy and certainly does not make it more interesting.

Take the battle of the Alamo which is 175 years old and just now historians (the brave ones) are able to suggest that Davy Crockett was not the last to die. Apparently the demand for myth is much more pressing and important than accuracy. The fact that a few hundred men faced several thousand is not legend enough and has to be inflated further.

This may be harmless when researching the Alamo but it does lay the groundwork for other events being treated just as carelessly. You know the holocaust never happened right? The moon walks were staged. The Kennedys were killed through conspiracies and Lincoln was killed by a lone gunman which made the hangings which included a woman, afterward unjust. You know that the world is on the brink of nuclear warfare and the only safe place is in the jungles of Guyana where a paradise can be built called Farfy Town.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CImrIKNmBo

How do I know all this? My mother was the first and only surviving woman to operate four Waring blenders on the setting of frappe abreast. That’s one honest person there and all the validation anyone needs for my awesome research skills and hunkyness. There are newspaper articles to back this up and you can see them by driving to Inuvik, Canada and asking for Dave, he is well known there. He may let you see these articles but you have to be polite. I don’t have time to post them myself because my time is valuable and I don’t have time to waste time proving what everyone already knows about my mother and why that makes me honest in the first place. I’m here to discuss Cooper and not any of these frivolous topics.

Sometimes I feel like the token ‘white guy’ in a disco funk group and one hundred stories high.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M&feature=related

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I do wish a real scholar would write the definitive DB Cooper book, separating rumor from fact, checking and verifying sources, all that stuff that Farflung likes. I'd buy one.

377



That has been suggested before by many people.

Quite frankly, there are always impediments
(hurdles) to any such work and so far the hurdles
have proved insurmountable, as this forum made
clear just as recently as last night -

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I suppose a scholarly book on DB Cooper would contain about one paragraph for the facts. Followed by a chapter or two of separating rumor from fact. If Mailer writes it, maybe three chapters. John (time and tide for no man wait) Updike likely could have written an entire series on it.

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Blevins wrote
Quote

377: Ever considered the idea of dropping into Ariel...LITERALLY? You know...like from the air under a canopy? You would be the hit of the day for sure. Extra points if you put on a pair of sunglasses after you land and are dressed like Cooper. Except for the shoes, of course. No one in their right mind would try to dupe his jump exactly.



Nahhh. As I age I've become a more cautious jumper. I've made a few "wilderness" jumps from aircraft such as a balloon and an ancient wooden sailplane, but these days I prefer a nice clear familiar DZ where no hard to see power lines or other hazards lay in wait to turn my kids into heirs.

I once landed in a K Mart parking lot in Illinois and no Airtwardo, it wasn't a demo jump. It's a long story. I got tagged "Blue Light Special" by the locals.

I'll volunteer Snowmann or Amazon. They'd go. I'd watch.
Or... the Ariel Tavern could pony up and hire Airtwardo. He'd do it for sure. It's amazing what some USPA Pro rated demo jumpers will do for a few hundred bucks.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo Stated:

Quote

Does anyone even re-call that Captain Scott used the intercom before they went down in Reno.
He stated they were making their approach to RENO and informed NO ONE (Coop was gone) that the stairway might substain damage and wanted to know if Coop needed any assistance in getting it back up.


They got NO answer and they took the plane on in to Reno.

When flight 305 landed sparks flew as the rear stairs bounced on the run-way.

Read the news articles of the time - DO you guys think ALL of those journalists got it wrong? Hell, some of them were at the airport when 307 came in for a landing.





Robert Stated:

Quote

Jo, You are the one trying to replace facts with myths!

According to an entry at 10:35 PM PST in the Oakland Center's radio transcripts, Captain Scott tells the Reno tower controller that they are trying to contact Cooper to get the steps up. Earlier they had informed Cooper (or at least tried to) that damage to the stairs in landing at Reno might mean that they couldn't takeoff from there.

No sparks were seen in the landing at Reno. As the aircraft was taxiing to the ramp, the tower did see some sparks from the stairs dragging on the taxiway and reported this to the flight crew at 11:03PM PST.

The damage caused by the stairs dragging on the taxiway was very minor as can be seen from the photograph on Sluggo's web page.

You apparently consider the "journalists" to be better witnesses than the Reno tower controllers.




:DJo SMILES!:)
I say journalists
You say Tower.
I say sparks flew.
You say sparks seen.

Regardless of how you interperate this - the Aft Stairs was down...be it bounced or dragged. I forgot to state the FBI report. It makes no difference if I used the source "journalist" and you used the source - I suppose the FBI files. WELL, Mr. Know It ALL, I have NOT read the FBI files...other than what has been in this thread and this thread did NOT exist in 1996 when I went public.

:)
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo Stated:

Quote

Recently Sluggo was offered a very large collection of old news article - most of which he does NOT have on his site. Sluggo made no reply to the OFFER.




Robert Replied:

Quote

Jo, Were you the one who made the offer?




======================

Jo Laughs her head off.:D:D:D:D:D

Do you realize how silly that question is? I didn't own a computer and didn't know who to search for old newspapers. Surely you Jest!:D

When Sluggo wasn't interest in the articles for his site, I jumped at being able to obtain a collection of these old newpaper articles. I don't have them YET, but I will have them in the very near future.:):D
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Blevins wrote

Quote

Am I to believe that NO ONE in Seattle wants to do this? National coverage is almost guaranteed for the tough guy who does the jump. I understand several media venues might show up for this one. If they thought someone would do it, they will show up for sure. Do we not have ONE BRAVE GUY who will pull it off?



What if I just walk in from the woods and claim I made the jump? I'll talk about dairy pails, boats, railroad hand cars, pipelines and lookout towers. Will that suffice?;)

Someone probably will make the jump. All that media is a big draw for one seeking fame. Maybe there is a big clear landing area. Hmmm. I should look at Google Earth before I decline immortatlity.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Perhaps the FBI needs to play with this name. Taylor.
He helped build airport runways in the N.W and over-seas. Air-Base construction. He was a jumper...I believe it was military. Anyone capable of searching these thing also needs to connect the name Ford with Taylor and it has to be connected with the above occupation and the N.W.

He knew Duane Weber, but was older. I got the impression they knew each other from the past.

Maybe they both knew Susan Garrity (I know I said Joan, but the signature on her art work is Susan). At my age working from memory can get out of sorts.

I may have solved one small mystery Duane left behind and it has NOTHING to do with Weber being Cooper. Sluggo said I was connecting dots that did not connect. He was right about this, but I did NOT show this particular item to him.

I will need to do some searching, because everyone is deceased that would be able to tell me the significance of the find. Need to find old obituaries and I don't have all of the infomation I need. I found something that stood out. As I have said before if Weber was NOT Cooper he sure as hell knew who was....

Our trip and his the dream and things he told me and showed me are all real and true. His confession was real....but, if he was NOT Cooper how did he come into possession of some items I feel are linked to Cooper? This discovery has really put a kink into the "story" and one I can't answer at this time.

Believe it or not - I uncovered this dot while making this post.
Something that was in plane site and I never saw it before. There goes that damn expression Duane used all of the time.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo Stated:

Quote

Does anyone even re-call that Captain Scott used the intercom before they went down in Reno.
He stated they were making their approach to RENO and informed NO ONE (Coop was gone) that the stairway might substain damage and wanted to know if Coop needed any assistance in getting it back up.


They got NO answer and they took the plane on in to Reno.

When flight 305 landed sparks flew as the rear stairs bounced on the run-way.

Read the news articles of the time - DO you guys think ALL of those journalists got it wrong? Hell, some of them were at the airport when 307 came in for a landing.





Robert Stated:

Quote

Jo, You are the one trying to replace facts with myths!

According to an entry at 10:35 PM PST in the Oakland Center's radio transcripts, Captain Scott tells the Reno tower controller that they are trying to contact Cooper to get the steps up. Earlier they had informed Cooper (or at least tried to) that damage to the stairs in landing at Reno might mean that they couldn't takeoff from there.

No sparks were seen in the landing at Reno. As the aircraft was taxiing to the ramp, the tower did see some sparks from the stairs dragging on the taxiway and reported this to the flight crew at 11:03PM PST.

The damage caused by the stairs dragging on the taxiway was very minor as can be seen from the photograph on Sluggo's web page.

You apparently consider the "journalists" to be better witnesses than the Reno tower controllers.




:DJo SMILES!:)
I say journalists
You say Tower.
I say sparks flew.
You say sparks seen.

Regardless of how you interperate this - the Aft Stairs was down...be it bounced or dragged. I forgot to state the FBI report. It makes no difference if I used the source "journalist" and you used the source - I suppose the FBI files. WELL, Mr. Know It ALL, I have NOT read the FBI files...other than what has been in this thread and this thread did NOT exist in 1996 when I went public.

:)


Jo, Your patented and famous two-step is showing again.

You claim that since this thread did not exist in 1996, you are excused from reading the FBI files that are available. And the FBI files might just be a better source than your "journalists".

So "journalists" = Reno tower air traffic controllers?

And "Duane Weber" = D.B. Cooper?

Also, "Jo Weber" = (Fill in the blank)?

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Jo wrote:
Quote

Perhaps the FBI needs to play with this name. Taylor. He helped build airport runways in the N.W and over-seas. Air-Base construction. He was a jumper...I believe it was military. Anyone capable of searching these thing also needs to connect the name Ford with Taylor and it has to be connected with the above occupation and the N.W.



If the FBI pursued all your leads Jo they'd have to hire a lot of new agents. Do you really think anybody will respond to your request to research Taylor and Ford without you revealing their relevance to Norjack?

TEASE CHECK: you recently stated that you were about to unveil blockbuster evidence that "the FBI can not ignore."

Status?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Blevins wrote:

Quote

I wish I could do it myself, but I have no rig. I'm not scared to do it though. Been through worse. Yes, I would take a chance.



Don't let the lack of a rig hold you back Robert. I have a stock NB8 bailout rig ready to go with a never jumped C9 canopy.

No reserve, but you want the Cooper reenactment jump to be authentic, right?

It's easy, just jump out of the plane and pull the ripcord. After that there are a few challenges that may arise... but I am sure you will figure them out.

I'll be waiting below with your cold beer.;)

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Skydiving instructions are for losers. McNally did it without any problems at all.

Motorcycle riding, running with the bulls and unprotected sex in Haiti are just a sampling of things which require little consideration or thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVAx1n1QFw

Bad cow! I SAID BAD COW!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6i3WlmM2Q

I think RobertMBlevins should jump since he has the desire and a free rig virtually placed at his feet by 377. Even if something does not ‘go as planned’ because the risks are so low and repeated risks are even lower. After all, what are the odds of catching herpes twice?

Deep thoughts indeed.

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Farflung wrote
Quote

Motorcycle riding, running with the bulls and unprotected sex in Haiti are just a sampling of things which require little consideration or thought.



If you had been Arnold Schwarzenegers Chief of "Staff", he'd have avoided a lot of trouble Farflung. As a democrat, I am pleased that he did not have the benefit of your expert counseling.

Well, we called Belvins' bluff. I hope he declines. Gayla would kick his butt if he were injured doing such a foolish thing.

I'll offer to do a BASE jump off the tavern porch with my NB8. How's that for courage?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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There is a chasm between courage and stupidity that makes the Grand Canyon look like a crack in a sidewalk.

My analytical brain says the odds of surviving a jump are good. Surviving can be defined as walking into a cheering crowd of bikini clad beauties holding a cold beer or eight months in therapy learning to squeeze a rubber ball. Gosh, I wonder which condition I would likely experience?

That phrase ‘ignorance is bliss’ has retained traction from a long list of individuals which Darwin said would spring from the loins of the planet’s most advanced species. This is why I’m ambivalent about guard rails, expiration dates on dairy products and double insulated power tools. I just feel we are interfering with nature to a point that makes genetic engineering and organ harvesting appear completely ethical. If ‘Stinky’ Andersen wants to see what would happen if he put his finger in the spinning spokes of his Schwinn, I say let him enjoy the experience and the maximum of nine more to follow if he so desires.

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