BIGUN 1,053 #1 June 22, 2007 Bill Newell wrote an article in "Parachutist" about the early days of skydiving (the 1960's) and the reviews were appreciative. Over the next couple of months, I'm going to be compiling information to write a factual series article about the days of skydiving in Muskogee & Tahlequah, Oklahoma. Consider it a Part II - the second generation of skydiving. The article will be segmented into two era's; the 70's & the 80's. If you have any factual information & pics regarding the timeframe from 1972 (?) until 1990 jumping at the Nationals, etc., please post a reply or send the info to my email address on dizzy.com. I'd like to also incorporate changes in equipment during the period of the 70's to 80's. Thanks in advance.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 June 22, 2007 The four way team "Silent Free Fall", comprised of deaf skydivers, made their first foray into the national championships in 1987 at Muskogee. They finished dead last, but got the loudest and biggest standing ovation. Like that really matters... Jumpers were David Armstrong, Fred Goebel, Mike Boland and John Woo. I have a picture of the group in freefall if you want it. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #3 June 22, 2007 Exactly the type of information I'm looking for!!! Yes. Pic Please. Here's my mental outline right now. The 70's Facts about the Nationals Equipment Stories around the Nationals (fun stories, humor, etc.) The 80's Facts about the Nationals Equipment Stories around the Nationals (fun stories, humor, etc.) One thing I'm trying to incorporate is situations that occurred which created change in the industry; "Like..." in 1983, a Golden Knight went in as a result of his reserve fubaring. As a result of the investigation, it was found that the rubber bands on the reserve bag caused some type of lockup and the freebag was developed. [Note: Now that may be partly true and while I was there for the incident; I was in the military at the same time so what I heard was based on inquiries I made from 1,000 miles away and never really substantiated - so if anyone knows the real facts behind this.....]Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #4 June 22, 2007 Not much behind the story of Silent Free Fall's appearance at nationals... Only that it was the first ever all deaf 4 way in skydiving history. I think they scored a zero on at least one jump for breaking off low... they didn't have audibles set up for deaf skydivers back then... Here's the pic... from left to right: David, Mike, John and Fred... Note the prosthetic hook on Mike's left arm. I know Mike, John and Fred still jump today, but David hasn't been around the last couple of years or so, but I could be wrong. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #5 June 22, 2007 "rubber bands on the reserve bag caused a lockup and the freebag was invented " before paraflite invented the square reserve and freebag , there were No d bags on sport reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #6 June 22, 2007 More information, please?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #7 June 22, 2007 As I remember ( I was not there but had friends who witnessed it )the GK went low on a Style jump, pulled the reserve w/o doing anything else ( this is what I would do ). The reserve pilot chute & bag launched, the canopy came out of the bag upon snatch and stayed in the pack tray. He was killed upon impact. It was thought, at the time, that the rubber '0' rings had caused the bag 'dump' and that is what got Para-Flite to develop the Safety Stow. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #8 June 22, 2007 Thank you, Jerry. As I said, I learned of the otucome third or fourth hand and knew that his demise had changed something about reserves. An example of how the industry learns from itself and continually improves. This is the type of information I hope to collate in the article (as sidebar items).Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #9 June 22, 2007 I concur with what Jerry says about that GK fatality at Muskogee. If I remember correctly, something that happens less often nowadays, the rig used was one of the early Racers set up for a square reserve.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #10 June 23, 2007 Try contacting Pat Works (patworks) here. He has some wonderful stories to impart to those who would listen. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #11 June 23, 2007 I had dinner Monday with two of the members of the Rainbow Flyers. Don Carpenter and Sam Brown. 3 time national champ (74,75,76 I think) and two time world champ (1 world cup, 1 world championship) Just looked in United We Fall (UWF). Rainbow Flyers 1st in 4 way at World cup in South Africa. Second in 1974 U.S. combined RW championship with 1st in four way and 5th in ten way. One, Sam, jumps regularly but not a lot. Don recently (4 or 5 years ago) stopped jumping but borrows one of my rigs from time to time to get his knees in the breeze. Ken Coleman, one of the other members died in a hot air balloon crash in about 1980 or 81. Sam and Ken are mentioned in UWF for writing down RW introduction outline. Of course Ken, with Rocky and Sam, is credited with inventing AFF. Rocky Evans is either about 30 miles from here or in Flagler, Florida. Don't know him well but he's been both places over the years. I can put you in touch with Don and Sam. In fact tomorrow is Sam's surprise 60th birthday party that he's been telling every one about. If you heard about the man with Duchene's muscular distrophy who got caught in the grill of a semi and pushed down the road a few miles three weeks ago, that was Don's son. For either the World Cup or the 1975 championship the team had prototype Super Swooper Tandems - SSTs. They were Red and White and had an H type harness instead of an X type. I have Sam's SST and jumped it for a few years when I first started in 1980. It now has yellow center flaps instead of white. I attended the Nationals boogie in 1983 and 1989 and other times in between. One year they misspelled muskogee (SP?) on some t shirts and were selling the misprints in the restraunt. I think I have one in my archive t shirt box. I know I have a lot of ground slides. Also some aerial stills. There was one eight way double diamond where I was on one end and another camera man was on the other. We stung the two end and poped up to take a photo of each other across the formation. The picture of me is in a box next to me. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #12 June 23, 2007 what came out of that fatality was that para flite developed the safety stow,which was then released to the industry.. after extensive windtunnel testing ,paraflite could not reproduce the situation that caused the fatality.(Manley butler did the work on this project.) at the time, paraflite square reserves were shipped with "o " rings made of buna n rubber on the locking stows(working in qc i was able to break some of these o rings at maybe 5 to 10 pounds of tension).bowing to pressure to "fix the problem" (even tho they couldn't duplicate it)the safety stow was born.interesting enough, at the time paraflite claimed to have final say on what containers were "compatible" with their sqaure reserves. the racer was not at that time approved by para flite for sqaure reserves. (sherman claimed the rig manufacturer was the one who was responsible for determining compatability) it was one of the great arguments in the industry for many years to come. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #13 June 23, 2007 THanks, Terry. I do plan on doing some interviews as this project progresses. My goal is to have the articles ready for next Springs issues of "Parachutist."Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #14 June 24, 2007 Quote Not much behind the story of Silent Free Fall's appearance at nationals... Only that it was the first ever all deaf 4 way in skydiving history. I think they scored a zero on at least one jump for breaking off low... they didn't have audibles set up for deaf skydivers back then... Here's the pic... from left to right: David, Mike, John and Fred... Note the prosthetic hook on Mike's left arm. I know Mike, John and Fred still jump today, but David hasn't been around the last couple of years or so, but I could be wrong. Photo by efs4ever. Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #15 June 25, 2007 Quote Quote Not much behind the story of Silent Free Fall's appearance at nationals... Only that it was the first ever all deaf 4 way in skydiving history. I think they scored a zero on at least one jump for breaking off low... they didn't have audibles set up for deaf skydivers back then... Here's the pic... from left to right: David, Mike, John and Fred... Note the prosthetic hook on Mike's left arm. I know Mike, John and Fred still jump today, but David hasn't been around the last couple of years or so, but I could be wrong. Photo by efs4ever. No shit?!? How big was your camera? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #16 July 27, 2007 Quote Bill Newell wrote an article in "Parachutist" about the early days of skydiving (the 1960's) and the reviews were appreciative. Over the next couple of months, I'm going to be compiling information to write a factual series article about the days of skydiving in Muskogee & Tahlequah, Oklahoma. Consider it a Part II - the second generation of skydiving. The article will be segmented into two era's; the 70's & the 80's. If you have any factual information & pics regarding the timeframe from 1972 (?) until 1990 jumping at the Nationals, etc., please post a reply or send the info to my email address on dizzy.com. I'd like to also incorporate changes in equipment during the period of the 70's to 80's. Thanks in advance. Norman Kent told me a great story of how he got his start at Muskogee. he basically lied to channel 8 news that he knew how to use their camera so he got to take it up. Of course prior to the jump he spent an hour learning about the camera in his van. he tells it better but it is a great piece of our skydiving history. Wonder where Smitty the jumpers car is at? I have many polaroids of him and his car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #17 July 27, 2007 Bill Mitchell xame back to work at Channel 8 after traveling around for some years. I didn't think about him till you said that. HE unterviewed me about a year ago. I need to give him a call. He's prolly the one who gave Kent the camera.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #18 July 28, 2007 Keith how do we get Smitty's car? Give me a call when you get a chance, you need to call Lambert at USPA for the article thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
low_pull1 2 #19 September 9, 2008 norms camera was huge, i sat next to him in the mid 80s and he had me hold his camera for a sec when he was ready to jump....must have weighed 35lb.... (just a guess) ..................... Norman Kent told me a great story of how he got his start at Muskogee. he basically lied to channel 8 news that he knew how to use their camera so he got to take it up. Of course prior to the jump he spent an hour learning about the camera in his van. he tells it better but it is a great piece of our skydiving history. Wonder where Smitty the jumpers car is at? I have many polaroids of him and his car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 19 #20 September 9, 2008 Hi GUN, As itdiver says, get ahold of Pat Works, he has the info. Also go to Airtrash.com and go to the Blast (from the past) page and read the "History of freefall RW by Pat Works" covers a lot of good stuff!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
low_pull1 2 #21 September 9, 2008 80s Many jumps were made other than Muskogee. Norman (Paradise) Comes to mind as a care free zone. Island air and 182 jumps to do some of the first non national 10+ ways Grandfield as a Student Zone . Ross Wroblewski started the first students on squares. When squares were forbidden for students. DZ produeced a Couple of Golden Knights. At least one Lifer at the AFA, 1 AMerican Air Pilot, SW pilot (tom & bonnie pappas) Mike Smith D-8??? was the first Person in Tow behind a 182...he is in MD now , DZ Safety guru now....Was mentioned in Parachutist within the last couple of months. Tom Pappas, First Person to bag no less than 100 woman b4 he got married a second time. , Clinton, OK as the DZ where Mike ?? came from...the guy with the horns in the old roger nelson freak brothers Vid. John Combs, out law, lawyer, set the stage for 20 ways at nationals by starting a compitition with the Houstonians (talk to jack burke, spaceland/john combs, edmound ok). John and Jack can give u info on the start of 20 way while john / Bob Shoemier (sp?/) of other first stuff and Turbine happenings in OK (and a few records). Lots of wild crap including some base history in that area (Mark Herndon). Was mark the first to make 100 base jumps in Ok? Air Bears from Deland were fine tuned at a couple of the 80 nationals.... With Tom Pirus, Jack jeff, and Guy Manos +??(you need to talk to Guy in So Florida!) these guys started the fast 4 ways we do today.....and invented the knee turns that create the speed for fast turns and many points. Guy probably was the start of the percision/ big way dives.....i might be wrong on this....but many gathered in OK at Muskogee for this. Many firsts/History were probably made in Muskogee by the Air Force team, talk to Pat Schfnagel (sp??) about this... he was on the 100 way also. Nationals...80s.... team jumper to wear an aad...Tom Pirus! Thats Breakin the mold. i might be wrong in some cases...... Cant forget Charlie Bonner (sp?) , Overshot the College Stadium and broke himself up, when he crashed into the fat woman in the stands behind the end zone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shotandahalf 0 #22 January 29, 2009 Hello guys, new here. I just though I would mention the Sparrowhawk camp loads. It was a canoe float business on the Illinois river near T-Quah. We jumped out of the DC-3's. The fun part was riding on top of the bus back to Muskogee. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #23 January 30, 2009 Here’s a couple of Okie pics from early 80s (I think), could probably get log books out and figure out just what year and event and probably have more pics somewhere. That’s me handstanding with Smitty wondering if I even know which way is up. I jumped there at several events, and was out last on the 36 way world record set there, I believe Jerry’s mom was one of the ground judges. Dave Sickler was flying, Phil Smith and I met his plane in Dallas for the ride up and back. What a trip. My last jump at Muskogee; on opening I saw my wife opening just below and did a front riser spiral to get to her fast (too fast) that ended up with me inside her canopy, hopelessly entangled and eating altitude fast. After a canopy transfer by her I landed on the flight line with her canopy and she landed on Jerry Bird… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #24 January 31, 2009 There are a few familiar faces in the pics. Sammy Ramos for sure in the pic of the manifest/office building. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #25 February 6, 2009 Quote80s Air Bears from Deland were fine tuned at a couple of the 80 nationals.... With Tom Pirus, Jack jeff, and Guy Manos +??(you need to talk to Guy in So Florida!) these guys started the fast 4 ways we do today.....and invented the knee turns that create the speed for fast turns and many points. Guy probably was the start of the percision/ big way dives.....i might be wrong on this....but many gathered in OK at Muskogee for this. The '85 Air Bears were Tommy Pirus, John Robbins, Joe Nepute, and Guy Manos with Mike Raible as alternet. They won the Nationals and went to the World Championships in Mali Losine, Yugoslavia and won that.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
