dropdeded 0 #1 February 10, 2004 Was talking to one of my instructors yesterday and he was telling me he was a was on the recovery team while he was a police officer in Taft back in 1982 when a planeload of skydivers went in there. I could only find a couple of sentances in a report on google about it. Only says something about weight distribution on take-off. Nothing else. Anyone suggest where to get more detailed info? dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,168 #2 February 10, 2004 Chris Schindler (diverdriver) has a web page where he points to the NTSB reports for skydiving aircraft incidents. Here is the report for that accident. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #3 February 10, 2004 Thank you Wendy. dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #4 February 11, 2004 I was jumping back then, but I don't recall this incident. It was an airplane usually called a Twin Beech (there were several designations, and variations). Not a particularly good flying machine, but widely used in that era. Generally they were considered a 10-jumper aircraft. Here is a model of a C-45. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 February 11, 2004 QuoteIt was an airplane usually called a Twin Beech (there were several designations, and variations). Not a particularly good flying machine, but widely used in that era. Generally they were considered a 10-jumper aircraft Unfortunately, some folks confuse that with a Beech 99, which is a larger (16+ jumpers) turbine aircraft with an Otter sized door.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geronimo 1 #6 February 11, 2004 Quote Was talking to one of my instructors yesterday and he was telling me he was a was on the recovery team while he was a police officer in Taft back in 1982 when a planeload of skydivers went in there. I could only find a couple of sentances in a report on google about it. Only says something about weight distribution on take-off. Nothing else. Anyone suggest where to get more detailed info? dropdeded Deceased: Alvin Autry, 42, D-4197 Robert Brotnow, 44, D-7700 Martin Estrada, 36, Richard E. Hayden, 36, D-6228 Kathy Kinzer, 26 Gary L Kriebel, 28 David Lindeman, 41 Michael Lombardo, 35, C-2523 Glenn W Racich, 42 Brady Sanders, 59, C-4129 James K Sword, 22 Etoula van Pelt, 38, D-6772 Terry Ward, 40 Monty H. 'Spike' Yarter, 65, pilot Bob Brotnow was a friend of mine that started jumping around the same time as me. He was one of the original yuppie jumpers. His gear was perfectly matched to USC colors. For his 100th jump, he hired all the local guns to do 16-way with him. IIRC, he also had a typed logbook. Terry Ward was the guy that did chuteless jumps in Mexico. Spike was a one-eyed pilot that was know for his cautiousness in flying. He maintained his plane in an immaculate condition. It is unknown why he took 13, instead of the usual 12. The observer was supposedly near the door and was, shall we say a height-challenged person. The previous weekend Craig Fronk, then a USPA National Director, jumped from the plane for some stunts in 'The Fall Guy'. The plane reached a height of 100 to 150 ft. Hank Asciutto said "The tail went down just after takeoff and he went straight up. After it stalled he got the nose down and the wing over-- a couple of hundred feet more and he might have made it." Spike also flew for our Wednesday afternoon jumps. We'd meet at van Nuys airport in the late afternoon, fly up to Taft, jump in and land. The dives were 'go dock someplace - then when a key is given - go dock someplace else' We'd pack up, do another jump at Taft, land and repack. Then load up for the trip back to van Nuys. .--- I have a dream that my posts will one day will not be judged by the color of the fonts or settings in a Profile but by the content. Geronimo_AT_http://ParachuteHistory.com 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #7 February 11, 2004 QuoteTerry Ward was the guy that did chuteless jumps in Mexico. Terry never did a "Chuteless" jump. He would load up in Mexico with gut gear, only his chest mount reserve did not have a reserve in it. He would get out, some where near Otay at 500 feet, deploy a MK-1 PC and after he landed he would party like it was paid for.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 0 #8 February 12, 2004 When your younger you sometimes don't think things through as much as when you gain experience through things like this, If you live. The next year we were doing the 1st (maybe the last) AirTrash Memorial boogie (Richard Hayden founded AirTrash) up at California City in a D-18. Al Frisby and I were standing in back of the pilot (who was unfamiliar with that a plane; although he had owned another one) counting heads and wonder just what the hell we were doing and decided that it probably wasn't a good idea to have 13 jumpers in the aircraft seeing as how that was the reason for this memorial boogie and vowed to not go over 10 on the remaining jumps. :-) You stood up in back of the pilot to get the weight as far forward as you could because of the lack of room, and to get a good view out the cockpit when you took off. D-18 could be a handful if the center of gravity got too far back, although not as touchy as a LoadStar. I've lost a number of friends and aquaintances to D-18s and prefer to not jump them any longer. I also tend to count bodies on aircraft to see if maybe there's too many on board. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #9 February 12, 2004 Well said John. I spent 2 weeks going to funerals after Spike's crash. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #10 February 13, 2004 What year did the Lodestar accident happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 0 #11 February 13, 2004 Early 80's up in the Northwest. Courtesy of Diver Driver [URL]http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X44100&key=1[/URL] Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #12 February 13, 2004 Thanks. At a DZ in San Antonio I used to fly at, there was a picture on the wall of that Lodestar, in the vertical just before it impact. Sad..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,168 #13 February 13, 2004 Was there an earlier near-incident on a Lodestar? In the late 70's or maybe 1980 there was one in the Houston area, and it was already known as the Lodestall, if I remember rightly (it was the 70's). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #14 February 13, 2004 Hey Wendy, I hadn't heard about one in Houston..... But, your right, they did refer to those as "Lodestalls" or "Deathstars".....etc.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #15 February 13, 2004 QuoteHey Wendy, I hadn't heard about one in Houston..... But, your right, they did refer to those as "Lodestalls" or "Deathstars".....etc.. Actually, "Deathstar" is a monicker given to the Piper Aerostar. It's not a jump plane but I remember when I checked out in it hearing why it was called that.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AirCav 0 #16 February 13, 2004 They got the nickname Lodestall after one stalled on jump run at a (back then) nationals qualification meet. Too many jumpers in the tail at exit time caused the CG to be way too far aft. It recovered at about 5 grand after half the jumpers were thrown off/out bringing the CG back into a controllable range, there were no injuries. This was somewhere in Illinois or Northern Ohio around 1977 or 1978, before the crash in the northwest. I just got off the phone with " Super Joe" the USPA judge at the time. He was watching the whole thing on telemeters. He said that when it stalled the jumpers getting thrown out/off looked like they went up as the aircraft was descending so fast. The Lodestar was a really cool airplane though. It could climb to 16,000 in 13 minutes. The door was just way too far back and anymore than 4 or 5 jumpers near the door was too many.GW685,D3888,C5052,SCS843 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #17 February 13, 2004 Chris, you are correct as always......I also thought they called Aerostars the "widowmaker" or was that the MU-2? (Also the F-104)..... Chris, who you flying with these days? Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,168 #18 February 13, 2004 Thanks; that's exactly the right time frame, and matches what I vaguely remember hearing. And the Lodestar was at a short-lived (one summer) temporary DZ called the Cow Palace, in Rosharon. Not at the location of the current Spaceland. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #19 February 13, 2004 There have been a lot of twin beech crash's involving skydivers I think one went in at pearl harbor during a demo at he hula bowl. We lost one in Kansas on T.O. The pilot tried to horse the thing off the ground before he had the required ground speed & sucked the gear up on T.O. and then landed befor he reached the end of the runway. The pilot was the first one out of the airplane and left all the switch's on. Big fire! We heard the guy didn't have time to get the plane insured befor the accident One jumper had his seat belt ride up under his belly wart and couldn't get out. Another jumper (maybe matt Farmer) went back and got him. Someone else got a cheapo camera from their car and got a nice color photo of the plane and fireball. The photo was published on the front page of the K.C. Star. What was that twin engine airplane that Mr Mayfield had a tailwind? looked like a twin beech except had a tail with a single verticle stablizer grafted onto it's butt. At L.P. Ted asked us and some others to give him a hand pushing the thing back no problem! But as we were pushing the thing and getting covered in oil, we were joking that was as close as we wanted to get to that bird. The Westwind is a nice twin beach, I'd jump that one any day! Anyone know if Stormville N.Y. had a Lodestar for a while, way bach when? R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #20 February 13, 2004 QuoteThere have been a lot of twin beech crash's involving skydivers I think one went in at pearl harbor during a demo. Sadly, you are correct On dec.5th 1981 N8185H crashed as it turned to final for a demo into Aloha Stadium, came to rest 300yds off the bow of the U.S.S. Airzona in 3 1/2 ft. of water. Deceased: Byron Black 50 DZO D-4968 Danny Black 20 Pilot of A/C, C-13740 Bobby Black 25 D-5304 Ira Allan 29 William Burr 43 Randy cordes 31 C-9092 Steve Harold 21 C-14913 Charles Knaeble 29 D-5329 James Lathrop 31 James "whitey" whiting 33 C-5595 SCS # 20 and founder of "party in paradise" Roy A. Zinna 27 D-6585 lone survivor: Mike Salmons bailed out 500 ft. or lower. One of the best group's of people I have ever known and hung out with, if you ever met them, Then you know what I mean.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usedtajump 1 #21 February 13, 2004 I was at Nationals in 1980 in Muskogee and Whitey and a group From HI had tents pitched in the same area as ours. Seems they had their motorcycles shipped to CA and then rode them to Muskogee for the Nationals. What a wild group of people they were, sleep was out of the question most of the time but it was much fun. I was totaly saddened when I heard about the crash.The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AirCav 0 #22 February 14, 2004 quote:......It was an airplane usually called a Twin Beech (there were several designations, and variations). Not a particularly good flying machine, __________________________________________________ I will have to disagree. The Beech 18 was and is a very good flying machine. Stable, responsive and powerfull. Yes on the ground they required a little more skill then the average pilot possessed, but in the air it is quite pleasant to fly. Sadly they got a bad rap because of some very unfortunate mishaps in a relatively short period of time. Just like any aircraft, if you overload it, fly it out of CG, or stall it on take off it will bite you. There have been Caravans, Otters, Cessnas and others with fatal stall/spin accidents but people will not hesitate to get in them. This is just my opinion having flown them all. Sure turbine engines are more reliable and easier to fly, but it's not the aircraft that caused these accidents. If I stall spin a J-3 cub after takeoff, the results will be the same. Off my soap box now.( I love the belch of blue smoke)GW685,D3888,C5052,SCS843 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 5 #23 February 14, 2004 QuoteAnyone know if Stormville N.Y. had a Lodestar for a while, way bach when? Yes. It ws flown by Bobby Sweet. I jumped out of it a number of times. Willy Sweet was the DZO. Bobby went in in Maine some years ago. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jbrasher 0 #24 February 14, 2004 Sadly you are right. "Whitey" was my 1st jump instructor in 1972 at Hinkley. I lost friends at Taft. A shortly thereafter a D-18 went in at Hinkley. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #25 February 14, 2004 QuoteChris, who you flying with these days? Buck Air Willy out of ORD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
usedtajump 1 #21 February 13, 2004 I was at Nationals in 1980 in Muskogee and Whitey and a group From HI had tents pitched in the same area as ours. Seems they had their motorcycles shipped to CA and then rode them to Muskogee for the Nationals. What a wild group of people they were, sleep was out of the question most of the time but it was much fun. I was totaly saddened when I heard about the crash.The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AirCav 0 #22 February 14, 2004 quote:......It was an airplane usually called a Twin Beech (there were several designations, and variations). Not a particularly good flying machine, __________________________________________________ I will have to disagree. The Beech 18 was and is a very good flying machine. Stable, responsive and powerfull. Yes on the ground they required a little more skill then the average pilot possessed, but in the air it is quite pleasant to fly. Sadly they got a bad rap because of some very unfortunate mishaps in a relatively short period of time. Just like any aircraft, if you overload it, fly it out of CG, or stall it on take off it will bite you. There have been Caravans, Otters, Cessnas and others with fatal stall/spin accidents but people will not hesitate to get in them. This is just my opinion having flown them all. Sure turbine engines are more reliable and easier to fly, but it's not the aircraft that caused these accidents. If I stall spin a J-3 cub after takeoff, the results will be the same. Off my soap box now.( I love the belch of blue smoke)GW685,D3888,C5052,SCS843 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 5 #23 February 14, 2004 QuoteAnyone know if Stormville N.Y. had a Lodestar for a while, way bach when? Yes. It ws flown by Bobby Sweet. I jumped out of it a number of times. Willy Sweet was the DZO. Bobby went in in Maine some years ago. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 0 #24 February 14, 2004 Sadly you are right. "Whitey" was my 1st jump instructor in 1972 at Hinkley. I lost friends at Taft. A shortly thereafter a D-18 went in at Hinkley. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #25 February 14, 2004 QuoteChris, who you flying with these days? Buck Air Willy out of ORD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
