My landing video...advice?

[listo 0]

Well, I have this thought to add to everything I have read in here. There seems to be a great misconception that a proper flare is always equal. I disagree with this one. A good flare is one that allows you to gracefully trade forward speed into lift while maintaining heading. As your jumps progress you will find that the wind is not always going to be directly in your face. You will experience a crosswind from time to time. If you get into a habit of flaring with both toggles even all of the time then you will end up rolling a lot more. I would suggest that you fly the canopy through the landing flare each time. There are going to be times when your ending flare is not going to be even. You will learn more about this as your experience grows. The main thing you need to concentrate on is keeping your heading while making a nice smooth flare instead of "stabbing" for a flare.

Get with some of your more highly experienced people on your DZ and stay with the same 2 or 3 people. This way you get reliable advice and not too many different opinions. Good Luck!

Have someone else jump your canopy too. You might have something out of trim or need adjustments to your brake lines.

Live today as tomorrow may not come

[Kris 0]

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A good flare is one that allows you to gracefully trade forward speed into lift while maintaining heading.

That phrase reminded me of Skratch Garrison's essay which is an invaluable learning tool. Here it is again for anyone who has missed it.

Kris


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"Skratch Garrison" wrote in message news:

Wings Level Wed 2002-7-31
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I've been thinking for some time about a final bit of advice, some catchy canopy control phrase, to say to students when they are about to go up. This morning it finally came to me:

Wings Level
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When you're close to the ground keep your wings level
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This covers a lot of ground. Most of the injuries I can think of violated this principle.

You can survive a lot of horizontal embarrassment by pulling your breakables in and doing a PLF. The vertical stuff is what hurts, and that mostly comes when your canopy is not level.

There are three common situations: turbulence, SLAMMs and flaring.


Turbulence
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One feeling of turbulence is the canopy suddenly rocking/tilting right or left. If it tilts to the right our untrained reaction is to raise our left hand to catch our balance, and lower our right hand to catch ourselves. This causes a hard right turn and slams us into the ground.

Under canopy we must retrain ourselves to think "Wings Level!" and counter the tilt with our toggles.

Tilt to the right: Think "Wings Level!"
Left toggle down / Right toggle up
Canopy overhead
Back to neutral or continue flaring or ...


If we're flaring when this tilt to the right happens another part of our reaction is to raise our left leg up and reach for the ground with our right leg. This is an injury prone position to hit the ground in.

Our ground based habits are strong, and it takes some effort and practice to use only canopy control, our hands and toggles, while we're still in the air.

Active control is the idea, you fly the canopy, don't let it fly you.


SLAMMs - Stupid Last Minute Moves
SLAMs - Stupid Low Altitude Maneuvers
--------------------------------------

I got this term from Rick Horn. It refers to last minute panic turns.


These last minute turns happen when people

- Get too low before facing into the wind (Get-home-itis)
- Try to avoid last minute obstacles
- Chase the windsock

Large scale canopy strategy - thinking ahead - is the approach to focus on here.

The idea is to get up wind of target, and then fly a landing pattern.

It starts before you even put your gear on.

Get a flight planner (an aerial photo of the drop zone).
Go outside and look at the ground winds.
Draw both left and right hand landing patterns for these winds.
Pick one or the other based on obstacles and other factors.
If the winds are still the same when you jump, this is the one you will try to use.

The actual jump often happens differently than the plan.

The point here is to learn a process, a way of thinking, an approach, that keeps you out of the awkward situations and last minute moves in the first place.

Now draw the jump run (what have previous loads been doing?).
Mark where the first and last groups got out (watch the actual jump or ask people who have just landed where they got out).
If the uppers are strong mark both exit and opening point.

Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who has just opened.

I'm here, the windsock is still the same, so my two possible landing patterns are there, what do I do between now and later to get from here to the onramp, the beginning, of the landing pattern I want to use?

Should I run? Should I hold? Should I crab?
If I keep facing the way I'm facing now, where will I land?

There's an obstacle, a lake, some trees, a power line between here and there. Can I fly over it? Should I fly over it?
What if the wind changes and I land on it? Is that a disaster, or just inconvenient?

If I can't make it back, where's a clear spot that I can land in?
Which way is the wind blowing and therefore what landing pattern should I fly?

Can I make it back but the wind has changed, the windsock is moving?
What's my new landing pattern and how do I get from here to the onramp?

Is the windsock going in circles? Are the jumpers ahead of me landing in all directions? Should I move my landing pattern over a bit and land outside the swarm of clueless sunday drivers?

Am I too long but the wind is at my back so I can pull a few inches on the toggles and come down slower and ride the wind back?

Am I down wind and don't want to blow away so I should face the wind and pull a few inches on the front risers and get down quicker?

Have I by some miracle of forethought made it to the onramp of my chosen landing pattern? How do I handle it now?


As a student they told me the 1,000 - 600 - 300 ft technique, but most experienced jumpers guage the pattern by angles and rates.

On a light wind day I fly the down wind part at a certain distance from the target so the target is at the correct angle down from me. I fly down wind until the target is maybe 45 degrees behind me and turn cross wind. Once again the target is at the correct angle down from me. At the magic moment I turn on final.

If I'm too low in the pattern I can cut across corners and shorten my flight path. If I'm too high I can go into brakes, come down slower but steeper, and bleed off unwanted altitude.

If I've misjudged the whole thing, I remember that it's better to land out and walk back than land in and get carried away on a stretcher, so I do my turns onto cross wind and final at a nice safe altitude, and congratulate myself on what good judgement I have.


It is hard to stress enough the value of persistently trying to fly your canopy on a predetermined course (get up wind of target, and then fly a landing pattern) rather than zooming aimlessly around and then landing.

The value is that trying to make your canopy go where you plan to go in all the different conditions teaches you how to make your canopy go where you *want* it to go in all the different conditions.

Canopy control is not simple and it's not easy. There are zillions of variables and circumstances, and on any given jump you don't even know what they all are.

If you put genuine effort into this for 200 - 300 jumps you will start to sort out the patterns and learn what you can and can't do.


Knowing what you can and can't do is especially helpful in staying out of the SLAMMs when you're landing out.

Sometimes, even when you're thinking ahead, you have to make a turn close to the ground. There is a way to do it and still keep your wings level and that is braked (flat) turns.

The idea is to first go into the right amount of brakes, half brakes, deep brakes, and then use one toggle slightly up or the other slightly down, or both, to turn.

This gives you a change of heading with only a slight bank.

If you were really at 50 or 75 ft when you did this, you just have to land that way (PLF).

Practice braked turns up high until they feel really comfortable so that when you need one close to the ground it will be easy to do.

Letting up from deep brakes near the ground is tricky because you drop quite a ways before your canopy resumes its normal glide path.

At some point it's worth spending maybe 10 or 20 jumps edging gradually into this to find out what you can do. It's different with each canopy.

Turn onto final in part brakes. At say 150 ft let up slowly and see what happens. Push gradually (that's *gradually*) into deeper brakes, lower altitudes, faster let ups. After while you will get a sense of what you can do.

If you keep pushing you will eventually scare yourself and then you will know where the boundary is.


Flaring
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Another place where you can get wings unlevel is flaring

- flare too high and then let up
- flare too high and stall
- flare unevenly

There is an old accuracy technique called double clutching, where you let the toggles up 6 or 8 inches (not a foot!), let the canopy fly for a moment, then toggles back down maybe 4 or 6 inches.

If you flare too high and just hold it, you will land hard but probably get away with it by doing a PLF.

If you flare too high and then let up, you will land much harder and may not get away with it. Even big, slow student canopies can slam you in if you do it wrong enough.

If you've been practicing double clutching up high where it doesn't hurt, you can impress your friends and coaches with your great canopy control.

If you flare unevenly, one hand lower than the other, you get the canopy tilting one way or the other as in turbulence.

Tilt to the right: Think "Wings Level!"
Left toggle down / Right toggle up
Canopy overhead
Back to neutral or continue flaring or ...

Some people look at their hands or bring their hands together at the bottom of the flare in order to flare evenly.

Those can be good short term techniques, but in the long run it is better to focus on what the canopy is doing.

If the canopy tilts or banks I want to counter with one toggle down and the other up regardless of whether it was turbulence or an uneven flare that caused it.

The flare works in two stages. The top quarter or top third stops your downward speed and levels you out (for a short while). The bottom part slows your forward speed.

This means that in high winds, where you're barely penetrating and your horizontal speed (relative to the ground) is already stopped, you just do the top part of the flare, and you do it much closer to the ground.

If you do a full flare in high winds you get picked up and thrown backwards pretty hard. This will impress your friends and coaches but not the way you want.

The hard part of flaring in no winds is guessing when to start.

You start the top part higher. This levels you out, changes your visual picture, and gives you immediate feedback on how good your guess was.

If your guess was good, then do the bottom part and land.

If you started too high, then pause for a moment, and then do the bottom part.

Part of the trick is where you look.

If you look at the horizon then you can't see the ground well enough in your peripheral vision and you can't tell when.

If you look straight down under your feet all you see is ground rushing by and you can't tell when that way either.

Up higher I'm looking more out ahead.

As I'm starting the flare I look ahead of where my feet are going to touch down just like you do on an uneven mountain trail.

As my feet are just about to touch down I look more downward just like you do at a rough spot on that mountain trail. What I'm looking for is any rock or uneven spot where I might twist an ankle.

If your flare motions are too slow you don't get the effect, but if you yank the toggles down you just distort the canopy and airflow and that doesn't work either.

If you back off a little from the yank to a definite, strong motion, it works pretty well.

The final bit of flaring technique is to practice PLFs until they are comfortable and natural, because in spite of all this great technique there is nothing like a PLF to save your body and your pride when you misjudge it.


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A point of terminology is that panic turns are not hook turns.

Hook turns, canopy swooping, turf surfing, pond swooping are a form of canopy flying that you can learn about later if you want.

If you are interested, then go to some of the larger drop zones in Florida or California or some place and learn from the people who are already good at it.

Like any envelope pushing around high speed dirt, it's pretty easy to kill yourself if you fuck up, so it's smarter to build on the experience of others.

Meanwhile, in your day to day jumping, keep your wings level when you're close to the ground.


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Sometimes, in spite of our best efforts, our best training, our best intentions, we have a brain fart and do something stupid.

Here's one that ranks right up there with the best of them.

One year at Quincy it was hot, it was humid, it was late in the week, I was tired, I didn't want to land out and wait for the pickup, and I had to cross the loading area to get back.

The loading area is a pretty wide section of concrete filled with Otters and Casas picking up jumpers, getting fuel, spinning props, planes taxiing in and out, tents full of waiting jumpers.

I had seen it in freefall, I had been eyeing the situation from the time I opened.

Can I do it? I'm not sure. It's gonna be close.

I'll just face that way and decide when I get closer.

Can I do it? I'm not sure. Just barely. Maybe. No, I should turn around and land over here. I'm going for it.

Concrete. Staying aloft by sheer terror. The slightest gust and ... Shit.

Props. I could land on the tail. Massive social humiliation and broken bones but I'd miss the props. Shit.

The tent. I'm going to land on the tent. Shit.

I'm over. I land.

I gather up my chute and walk back thinking that was the stupidest thing I've ever done.

To this day I can still hardly believe that I did that.

It's not just students who show bad judgement under canopy.

Bryan Burke has said that minds are like parachutes, sometimes they just don't work.

That means that we must develop the best set of habits and background experience that we can, so that when our minds don't work we might still accidentally do the right thing.

Keep your wings level when you're close to the ground.

Skr
--

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[drenaline 0]

Hiya Pammi, just saw your video, great trees in the landing area (I would of landed on top of some of those trees ).

Here is my non expert opinion, I only have 81 jumps, USPA B license, read to much and analize as much as I can but am still a newbie.

First thing I see interesting is the one feet then other feet touchdown, try to land with both feets together just like student days (lets prevent an injury and also by doing both feets together you kinda prevent a harness input), don't use your right arm to stop your fall, you can get it broken or injured, PLF if you didn't got the stand up landing. Or start by sliding your feets and end up sliding your butt.

What Samurai said about the early flare sounds kinda correct, you are flaring very high, maybe you can try a two stage flare (remember am no expert but just giving my very personal non expert opinion) or start your flare a bit lower like samurai told you in a previous post.

Michele gave you one of the best advices and is to practice the flare up high, make your 3 leg entry up high (from 3000 feets to 2000 feets) and look how low you need to take your arms for a flare, if you take them all the way down and the canopy doesnt flares or if it needs for you to take it all the way down for it to flare then you need to shorten those brake lines. Remember Flare is different than stall.

I noticed that you collapsed the slider, next time try collapsing it and pulling it down to the back of the neck (before unstowing the toggles you pull the slider down). I am a big believer on making the canopy open and flatten as much as it can that way has a much better performance (of course am a newbie but I sure feel that my canopy respond better when I collapse slider take it down and loosen chest strap, started doing that since jump 36).

I noticed the right hand lower than the left hand but from my perspective is not causing you a major problem cause it seems that the difference is kinda low (and again am a newbie) but it sure affects a lil.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[ladyskydiver 0]

Thanks for this post. It makes a few things clearer.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[Pammi 0]

Thank you all so much for you tips, advice and even the things that you all were able to see on the video that I'd missed. I have put ALL of it into a Word document so that I can print it out and read through it all at the gym while I'm doing my cardio, the quietest time I get without distractions from work and kids.

I know this will be helpful! I agree with you, as well, Kelli that I need to work on these one or two at a time so I'll know what it is that needed changed when I find it (and don't hurt myself trying to think of them all at once). I am also going to do a couple hop n' pops this weekend I think so I can get more landings for less money and concentrate on those for a few jumps.

I can't thank you guys enough!

Pam

BTW, if I really am flaring at the trees (which I tend to do sometimes if I'm looking at the ground instead of in front of me), I'm seriously flaring high cuz they are damn tall around here!

[drenaline 0]

Quote

BTW, if I really am flaring at the trees (which I tend to do sometimes if I'm looking at the ground instead of in front of me), I'm seriously flaring high cuz they are damn tall around here!

Try painting all the trees with a white line 10 feet high, that way you will know when its 10 feet no matter what tree is next to you.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[Michele 1]

Hi, listo!

Quote

I would suggest that you fly the canopy through the landing flare each time. There are going to be times when your ending flare is not going to be even.

Agreed 110%. I've seen video where my flare is uneven, but manage to stay straight and land "fairly well" (not on my feet, but on my rear bumpers instead of my face). I am curious as to your opinion as to this particular landing. Not landings and flares in general, but this one...and I agree, each landing is totally different and has it's own conditions to deal with every time.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[hooked 0]

Oh my gosh! How do you ever remember all of this? I haven't had to do a landing on my own yet and all this is making me more nervous about it. How will I ever land myself, I don't even know if I am a confident driver of my car!

J

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Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings.

[Speer 0]

Try not to spend too much time worrying. When you go through the First Jump Course, your instructor will take the time to make your instructions clear. Your instructor will also outfit you with a radio receiver, so that he/she can give you instructions while you are under the canopy. That, coupled with a docile student canopy, will make the whole task a lot easier than it sounds here.

Bear in mind that I'm only a beginner myself (12 jumps), but that means I just went through what your contemplating...and yes, I did have concerns before the course. That is not only reasonable, it is prudent. It is a good thing to place enough importance on the course material that you strive to understand and fix in your mind what you need to do before you jump.

Read the posts, contemplate the answers, and when you go through the First Jump Course, a lot of the class will actually be a review for you.

Good Luck, and keep us posted

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[heftee 0]

I, too, am a newbie, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But, anyway, here's my opinion:
I agree with what everyone has said about your right side, flaring too high, and please don't injure yourself by reaching to break the fall - I have one more thought...and I only say this because I was doing this for the first 50 jumps.
A DZ staffer who heard me complaining of my landings started watching me and then came up to me and said - I can see your head facing down towards the ground and not out at that 45 degree angle. On this jump, if I see that again, I'm going to slap you. Although I knew this was the way to do it, it was true, I was not doing it right. So, on my next jump, I found myself looking down until I heards Bill's words in my head, forced myself to look up, and landed it great. It was very scary as it seemed like I should be looking where I want to land. Anyway...my point...it's hard to tell exactly from your video due to the full face helmet - but going frame by frame, it does look like you start off looking ahead, then at your too high flare, I see a small downward angle of your helmet, then, as your feet are reaching for the ground, you seem to look back up. My two biggest issues were - looking down, and stretching my legs out to reach for the ground - I was trying to hit it before it was time. I found that concentrating on really and truly looking ahead and not down made a huge difference. Also, because I have a depth perception issue anyway, I find that it helps to bend my legs - kneees up towards chest (not super high). That gives me just that extra foot before trying to reach for the ground. Ever since Bill got on to me, I've been doing much better - even in no winds days which were my biggest problem.
Again, I'm a newbie, but hopefully something in here will help. Thanks for listening.

[hookitt 0]

I've been trying to keep quiet since the advice given has been really good.

There is one serious part of the landing sequence that seems to be over looked ... come on guys!!!....

Where the heck was the 360 degree front riser hook turn?

.
.
.
. <please recognize this reply as humor>

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[drenaline 0]

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How do you ever remember all of this?

in the FJC you learn some of the things said here like the 3 basic things on landing: 1- against the wind, 2- feets together and 3- flare at 10 feets high. What we post here are some stuff that others might be missing or the common mistakes that can happen. Example: flare with both hands leveled means that if you have one hand lower than the other one you will be steering the canopy into the direction of the lower hand.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[hooked 0]

Quote

in the FJC you learn some of the things said here like the 3 basic things on landing: 1- against the wind, 2- feets together and 3- flare at 10 feets high. What we post here are some stuff that others might be missing or the common mistakes that can happen. Example: flare with both hands leveled means that if you have one hand lower than the other one you will be steering the canopy into the direction of the lower hand.

Thanks, those are easy enough to drill into my head.
J


"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

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Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings.

[AndyMan 7]

If people could learn how to skydive by reading, we'd screw this whole first jump course thing, and just hand out a manual.

I would caution you to think about what you want to take away from these boards. You're going to learn an aweful lot in your first jump course, but you'll manage because you'll learn by listening, watching, practicing, and yes - reading.

These forums were not created to teach someone how to skydive. Try to keep your expectations reasonable.

Just a thought,

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[skycat 0]

I don't know where you are from or where you jump or anything, but I think the best place for someone who has never done a landing of their own is a working tandem. If you do a tandem with someone like Derek, doesn't matter if you plan to continue or not, your canopy control course starts at 4000 ft. Then you have someone right there telling you what your slider is and what it is doing, what to do to unstow toggles, where the wind indicator is, pretty much everything. Then you get to see 1st hand, how to do a landing pattern, S-turns, and get a feel of when you are suppose to flare.

That is why the AFP program works and there are DZs putting students out on ZP canopies.

So if you have the money, I highly recommend a tandem, not for the freefall, but for the canopy control.

Fly it like you stole it!

[hooked 0]

Quote

If people could learn how to skydive by reading, we'd screw this whole first jump course thing, and just hand out a manual.

I would caution you to think about what you want to take away from these boards. You're going to learn an aweful lot in your first jump course, but you'll manage because you'll learn by listening, watching, practicing, and yes - reading.

These forums were not created to teach someone how to skydive. Try to keep your expectations reasonable.

Just a thought,

_Am

Oh, I realize you don't learn to skydive by reading! My God! Just the thought. What I meant was sometimes the information is just so much, that when it is put into simpler terms, it is easier to digest.

J

"Never miss a good chance to shut up."

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Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings.

[hooked 0]

Quote

I don't know where you are from or where you jump or anything, but I think the best place for someone who has never done a landing of their own is a working tandem. If you do a tandem with someone like Derek, doesn't matter if you plan to continue or not, your canopy control course starts at 4000 ft. Then you have someone right there telling you what your slider is and what it is doing, what to do to unstow toggles, where the wind indicator is, pretty much everything. Then you get to see 1st hand, how to do a landing pattern, S-turns, and get a feel of when you are suppose to flare.

So if you have the money, I highly recommend a tandem, not for the freefall, but for the canopy control.

Thanks. Geez, I never thought I would get such feedback. I have done several tandems, but none of them let me have much control. I definitely will be asking for a 'working tandem' before I try anything else.

J

"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

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Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings.

[Merrick 0]

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"Where the heck was the 360 degree front riser hook turn?"

Funny you should mention that, I tried to explain to her how speed is traded for lift, and the more speed you have the more lift you'll get.... Shoulda videod it myself, cuz our daughter missed the nice 270 hook, too bad she started it about 100 ft too high. LOL

No really, after watching the landing for about the 1000th time I realized that she's landing crosswind. Her right arm being lower than the other may have just been a bit of an over correction. I was right there in the way of the video (in purple) watching her come in... the only thing I saw was 1.) she flared a little to high, and 2.) she started reaching for the ground with her legs, and someone else mentioned 'not' looking out ahead of her (she has a bad habbit of looking straight at the ground). The video is kind of dark & choppy so it's really hard to get a good idea of what was going on, but we'll try to get a better one this weekend so she can get some help with this.
Thanks again for all your help, there's a lot of good information here, I just hope she can remember what she needs to, and find out what works for HER.

btw Pamela, should we show them the other vid of you landing on your feet and me landing in the middle of the tuffet!?

Blues!

Merrick

[Michele 1]

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btw Pamela, should we show them the other vid of you landing on your feet and me landing in the middle of the tuffet!?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And better yet, use that one to compare with - what you did there that you didn't do here, or vice versa...

Cidels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Pammi 0]

Quote

btw Pamela, should we show them the other vid of you landing on your feet and me landing in the middle of the tuffet!?

Geez, I bet I'll hear that as often as you'll continue to hear the "what the hell were you thinking attaching your own PC?!" Pretty much forever.

Ah you could prob'ly hit it about every time if you try, now me landing on my feet...that you might have to wait a while to see again

Pamela

[Merrick 0]

Quote

"YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And better yet, use that one to compare with - what you did there that you didn't do here, or vice versa..."

LOL Well, the other video was shot at 160x112 (small), its shot kinda far away, PLUS there was about 14mph of extra wind! Anyway, this landing represents about 70% of her landings, so we thought it would be best to post it.

blues!

Merrick

OH! btw, it wasn't my PC I hooked up wrong, it was the d-bag to the bridle. just a little PC in tow to get the heart pumpin!

[brucewayne 0]

First, how many jumps do you have? Because if you are a low time jumper, don't sweat it, we all have had problems. It will come to you. Video is great but getting the feel for your own canopy and the the experience under it is the best tool. Second, how well do you know your canopy? How are you wing loading it? Have you done control checks up high. Do you know where your steering lines are when you let all the way up on them after your brakes are unstowed? Do they have a nice bow to them? Or are they still tight? Do you know the stall point for your canopy up high? These are things that would help a rigger to know if there are flaws or adjustments that can be made in your canopy that would keep it from flying at it's best for you. These are all things that I learned from J.C. this summer to help me with my own canopy skills. These are things I will know about every canopy I own from now on. Lots of people assume that their canopy skills are the first thing to blame without ever checking out thier own canopy.

[sfc 0]

It looks like you are flaring ok right up until the end. At the end your left arm seems to let up on the toggle.
It looks like you might be flinching as you land and instinctively bringing your left arm up to protect yourself.
It did not look like you were even thinking of running/sliding the flare out, what do you mentally prepare to do at the point you touch down?

[Pammi 0]

Well, not low time but not too experienced either. Still in the learning phases :) I have 93 jumps right now.

[AndyMan 7]

I'd strongly recomend getting more video - possibly with a better videographer.

When I broke down the video she posted in a frame by frame analysis, it was easy to see certain elements, like at least being in half breaks at 50 feet, and stalling out at 6 feet.

Get some more video, and watch it frame by frame. I think you'll find it very useful.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.