Skyvixen 0 #1 July 16, 2003 Is being under a canopy unconscious a good thing? I'm afraid of being unconscious under canopy and hitting a building and being paralyzed because of it.Let's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #2 July 16, 2003 >Is being under a canopy unconscious a good thing? Depends on your reserve. If you're really concerned about that issue, get a 28' round reserve - it will land you more safely than a square if you are unconscious. A large square is the next best thing. The worst choice, of course, is a tiny reserve that you need all your skill to land safely; if you're even incapacitated (i.e. dislocated shoulder) you may not be able to land that safely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #3 July 16, 2003 But then I would have to have a bigger canopy and larger container.. How small can u get a round. Do they even have them anymore.Let's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 July 17, 2003 QuoteIs being under a canopy unconscious a good thing? It sure as hell beats being unconcious and in freefall for six more seconds. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #5 July 17, 2003 Been there done that .. was awake at 8 grand .. not as bad as it seemsLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 July 17, 2003 No, I meant down at Cypres activation altitude. At that point you have about 6 seconds to impact. I'd much rather take my chances of whacking into a building or something unconcious under my reserve, than whacking into the earth unconcious without one. As far as I'm concerned that's really the only valid reason to have a Cypres anyway.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #7 July 17, 2003 I must respectfully disagree: - A square reserve will in 99% of cases be better then a round one (if you don't overload it). - In most cases you will not be unconscious under reserve. A round reserve is not very steerable and can get you into trouble. I once was hanging under one and had the "choice" of airport hangars or freeway for landing. Not a very nice choice. You will in most cases have a much harder landing in a round. - Even if you are unconscious. Rounds do not like wind. They drift and if it is windy might give you at least the same problem as being under a square with half breaks. Rounds also tend to do pendular movements (especially if it is windy) - that can give you a very bad landing. I had 2 reserve rides in rounds and both times was injured. I would never again jump a round reserve - just make sure that your square reserve is not loaded much more then 1 - 1.2--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #8 July 17, 2003 >But then I would have to have a bigger canopy and larger container.. Yep. >How small can u get a round. Do they even have them anymore. Of course. There are still a great many militaries that use rounds. 24' are still available AFAIK, but then you don't want to go too small on a round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #9 July 17, 2003 >Even if you are unconscious. Rounds do not like wind. Rounds don't care about wind. They are happy to go wherever the wind goes. >They drift and if it is windy might give you at least the same problem > as being under a square with half breaks. A square flying downwind will go _much_ faster than a round flying downwind, even in brakes. >Rounds also tend to do pendular movements (especially if it is >windy) - that can give you a very bad landing. So get a larger round; the landings will be softer even if penduluming is a problem (and on vented-apex rounds, it's not that big a problem.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #10 July 17, 2003 [QUOTE]As far as I'm concerned that's really the only valid reason to have a Cypres anyway. [/QUOTE] What about forgetting to pull? You're not perfect, are you? --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #11 July 17, 2003 QuoteRounds don't care about wind. They are happy to go wherever the wind goes. Right, I'll try again: When its windy the round will drift fast over the ground and slam you my friend. I have 115 round jumps and 2 round reserve rides. Please believe me. Rounds are no fun in wind QuoteA square flying downwind will go _much_ faster than a round flying downwind, even in brakes. Yes, I'll agree with that. So IF you are knocked out it might be better in a round - but in ALL other cases a square reserve is better. Try to land in a busy area or in 15 knots wind with a round reserve - not much fun. QuoteSo get a larger round; the landings will be softer even if penduluming is a problem (and on vented-apex rounds, it's not that big a problem.) Yes to a degree you are right - my first reserve ride was basic round and slammed me into the ground in pendular motion after low opening - weeks in hospital as a result. Second I had was a modern one, with the vented apex, BUT they can still give you pendular movement if you try to avoid things and steer a lot.... Again. I would NOT recommend a round reserve to anyone.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #12 July 17, 2003 I have to respectfully disagree with you on this issue. Billvon pointed out very good points so I won't reitterate what he said. Rounds are extensively used in the military becasue of many of the issues bill mentioned. I also ackowledge that hard landings can be had under rounds. I've many a night mass tac under my belt where I landed like a anvil but had it been under a square I'd be in a wheel chair right now I'm sure. If I had to be unconscious under a canopy I would want it to be a round. Having seen unconscious people come down under both squares and rounds, the round canopy seems to be the less damaging of the two IMHO."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #13 July 17, 2003 QuoteRounds are extensively used in the military Correct me if I am wrong but they use round reserves with round mains only? (good reasons for that) QuoteI've many a night mass tac under my belt where I landed like a anvil but had it been under a square I'd be in a wheel chair right now I'm sure I agree I would much prefer a round chute if I had to land in darkness (due to the issue of not being able to detrmine flare point). But is this relevant here? QuoteI had to be unconscious under a canopy I would want it to be a round. Well that is probably right. BUT in how many % of reserve rides are people unconscious? 5%? In all other cases a square would be better.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #14 July 17, 2003 >When its windy the round will drift fast over the ground and slam you > my friend. A square reserve flying downwind will go even faster. >Again. I would NOT recommend a round reserve to anyone. For general usage I wouldn't either. But if a jumper is truly concerned about their cypres putting them under a reserve when unconscious, a round reserve is a good way to go. (It's also an excellent choice if you're worried about a misfire; a round with a free sleeve is a better thing to have with a dual deployment than another square.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #15 July 17, 2003 I don't think anyone could forget to pullLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #16 July 17, 2003 Bill, I will forgo this one as you and I are thinking along the same lines here......you liberal greenie scum ....but you are a birdman so there is hope"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #17 July 17, 2003 [QUOTE]I don't think anyone could forget to pull [/QUOTE] I've already heard of multiple people forgetting to pull until way in the basement. It happens, and is a valid reason for buying a cypres. Its a back up device. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #18 July 17, 2003 >I don't think anyone could forget to pull It is why 90% of cypres saves occur, despite the fact that people buy them 'in case they get knocked out.' Check out the cypres save page to see for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #19 July 17, 2003 With a AED( Automatic Entanglement device) if you are unconscious when it fires...a round will wake you up! If it does not...your already dead! If your are conscious and activated your main low(much more likely to happen) then a main/reserve entanglement is less likely because squares fly and rounds drag. If you did experience an entanglement with 2 squares....good luck!...with an open round(even messy)...you should live. Round reserves pack large, cause they are large(big reserve). Modern round reserves(1980+) steer ok. I jump a Strong lopo-26 and have had 3 rides on it without injury. Square reserves are said to be more reliable(I question that) but if you ever needed to dump your reserve into anything other than clean air....like a main that can not be cutaway or an aircraft door( that can not be cutaway) I would recommend a round. It's not that it is more likely to open...but more likely to be of use after it does. ...mike P.S. Strong still sells the lopo-26 in a couple versions.(They got most of the bugs out in the first 30,000 builds I think!)----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #20 July 17, 2003 I'm not perfect, but if for some reason I ever "forget to pull" and have a Cypres fire, I'm quitting the sport. A Cypres should NEVER be used for that reason. Have one installed. Turn it on and skydive like your life depends on your own judgement.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #21 July 17, 2003 I find that hard to believeLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #22 July 17, 2003 I agree !!!Let's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #23 July 17, 2003 QuoteI find that hard to believe Which part?...All of it? ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyvixen 0 #24 July 17, 2003 That when a round fires you will wake upLet's put the FUN back in Funeral Life is a Freefall Enjoy!! MUFF #2760 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #25 July 17, 2003 I have opened my round a terminal 2 times....It woke everyone up for miles! ...mike P.S. Cool story with happy outcome via round reserve! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=486723;search_string=search_string;#486723----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
