buzzfink 5 #1 November 21, 2002 Aside from the Navy Parachute Team, we do not really have many CReW jumpers at Skydive San Diego. However, at the request of a good friend, I have been reviewing my Cypres required rule as it pertains to CReW. I even called Bill Von Navak, who's opinion I respect, and got his take on it. What I have concluded is that I was wrong to require a Cypres for CReW jumpers. I guess I just saw it as easier to monitor if everyone had to have one. Effective immediately, jumpers doing CReW who jump and deploy upon exit will no longer be required to wear a Cypres. All other will still be required to wear a Cypres. I know some will assume this change is because I am running for the BoD and I think I can get votes by doing this. If that were true, I would remove the requirement completely. Besides, this will not change anyones mind who disagrees with my general cypres required rule. Thanks to all who e-mailed me privately and on the board that helped me correct this. Blue Skies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #2 November 21, 2002 Good decision! Exactly the same rule that Ampuriabrava decided to implement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #3 November 21, 2002 havn't jumped skydive san diego yet, and i live in point loma, ocean beach........ whats it like out there? Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #4 November 21, 2002 <<whats it like out there?>>> It's one of the most beautiful DZ's around. We are currently building up our experienced facilities. We have a 2,000 sf indoor packing area reserved only for experienced jumpers, have a 300 series Otter and have load organizing on the weekends. We are not where we wish to be in terms of servicing the experienced jumpers but we are working on it. Hope to see you here! Buzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #5 November 21, 2002 Is there anything going on mid-week? Will be around Perris & Elsinore for 2 weeks in December and you're not too far away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #6 November 21, 2002 Good job Buzz. It ain't as much as I'd like to see you do, but it's something."I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #7 November 21, 2002 i don't own gear yet..... do you have 190 or 170 sabre 2's? Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 November 21, 2002 QuoteEffective immediately, jumpers doing CReW who jump and deploy upon exit will no longer be required to wear a Cypres. All other will still be required to wear a Cypres. To change a policy from an online debate, after consulting some trusted experts is one thing. To go back and openly admit that you were wrong and you're changing it, although you are the owner/manager/top dog at that DZ, that's another. I can think of more then a few people who wouldn't have done it that way if they were in your position. Although I don't agree with your policy as a whole, I do have to applaud you for the steps you took here. (Side Note: Personally I feel that it should be up to the individual jumper if they are going to use an AAD or not, but that is your choice as a DZO to have that policy. I do not have an AAD in my rig, currently, although I will eventually since I do think they are worth while; however, I can not afford one and I'm willing to deal with the consiquences of jumping without one until I can afford one. It would be unfortunate, though, if my local DZ had the same policy so I went to a different DZ, eventually bought an AAD, but never came back to the local DZ since I had made a good group of friends at the other.)--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabregrl 0 #9 November 21, 2002 Come out to Skydive San Diego this weekend. We're having a paahhtty!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #10 November 21, 2002 >do you have 190 or 170 sabre 2's? I believe we still have a Triathalon 190 that's available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #11 November 22, 2002 I guess I will never jump at Skydive San Diego. Sorry you feel that way about cypres's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #12 November 22, 2002 to elaborate on my previous post. I will never get an AAD of any brand and feel like Aggiedave does about them. It should be up to the individual whether or not they feel they should have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #13 November 22, 2002 > It should be up to the individual whether or not they feel > they should have one. I feel the same way, with the exception of students. They should always be required to jump with an AAD. Pick your own definition of student, but it should end somewhere between AFF grad and A-license holder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #14 November 22, 2002 exactly just as billvon said. I totally agree with that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #15 November 22, 2002 QuoteQuoteEffective immediately, jumpers doing CReW who jump and deploy upon exit will no longer be required to wear a Cypres. All other will still be required to wear a Cypres. To change a policy from an online debate, after consulting some trusted experts is one thing. To go back and openly admit that you were wrong and you're changing it, although you are the owner/manager/top dog at that DZ, that's another. I can think of more then a few people who wouldn't have done it that way if they were in your position. Although I don't agree with your policy as a whole, I do have to applaud you for the steps you took here. USPA HQ, take note. This discussion was on a free to use web community. It encompassed the skydiving community as a whole, from the DZO down through instructors, jumpers, and probably even students. Though I do not agree with Mr. Fink's CYPRES rules in general, I must give kudos for using the information superhighway to gather information and jumpers opinions. Nice one Buzz. Why is it again, that we cannot get a forum on uspa.org that could be monitored by HQ, and the BoD?It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #16 November 22, 2002 QuoteWhy is it again, that we cannot get a forum on uspa.org that could be monitored by HQ, and the BoD? Do you trust the USPA not to censor such a board hosted on the USPA website? I don't. On the other hand, I do really enjoy these political/policy discussions/debates right here on dz.com. I hope they don't just go away after the elections are over. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #17 November 22, 2002 >Do you trust the USPA not to censor such a board hosted on the > USPA website? I don't. Perhaps we could host it here, and have a USPA member moderate. He might end up 'censoring', but if it is done here, such an action would be very visible to Sangiro, who (I think) would be a good arbiter of fairness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #18 November 22, 2002 I have to applaud you as well, Buzz. You took an unpopular stand because you think it's right, then modified it when you were given evidence that it wasn't right. And even still you're sticking by part of it that remains unpopular but which you still believe is the right choice. That shows a lot of integrity, and based on that I think I can believe you when you say that you don't want to mandate AAD's for other DZ's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #19 November 22, 2002 QuotePerhaps we could host it here, and have a USPA member moderate. He might end up 'censoring', but if it is done here, such an action would be very visible to Sangiro, who (I think) would be a good arbiter of fairness. Why have a USPA member moderate? In the interests of fairness we should have a disinterested party moderate such a forum. If moderation is even necessary I would suggest that the rules for moderation be VERY SPECIFIC. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #20 November 22, 2002 >Why have a USPA member moderate? Did you mean USPA official, like a BOD member? If so, then: Because I think such a forum would have to be moderated (just look at how contentious the treetop threads have been) and a USPA BOD member is going to be the most interested in doing it. It affects him directly _and_ his moderating the board will mean that he reads all the posts. >In the interests of fairness we should have a disinterested party > moderate such a forum. Hasn't been an issue so far. We have non-disinterested people moderating all the other forums. As long as he merely enforces the rules (i.e. no personal attacks, no pedophilia jokes etc) it's a non-issue. If he does get rambunctious and starts censoring, then he gets replaced. In any case, such a thing would be Sangiro's call, not mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #21 November 22, 2002 QuoteIt affects him directly _and_ his moderating the board will mean that he reads all the posts. Now I hadn't considered that aspect of it, good idea. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #22 November 22, 2002 I think all bod members should join in...... as they keep teling us it's our uspa. From some of the things they have done the last few years they have lost touch with us. It would help all involved to build a better club and a more informed people on both sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #23 November 23, 2002 Side Note: Personally I feel that it should be up to the individual jumper if they are going to use an AAD or not, but that is your choice as a DZO to have that policy. I do not have an AAD in my rig, currently, although I will eventually since I do think they are worth while; however, I can not afford one and I'm willing to deal with the consiquences of jumping without one until I can afford one. It would be unfortunate, though, if my local DZ had the same policy so I went to a different DZ, eventually bought an AAD, but never came back to the local DZ since I had made a good group of friends at the other.) > This was exactly my opinion when I started skydiving. I went through AFF in San Diego and didn't jump at Buzz's dropzone until my home dz closed. I didn't have a cypress, and I wasn't planning on spending the money for one up until then. It was raining the day after my home dz closed, so I drove over to Buzz's dz to meet him for the first time and inquire about a purchasing a cypress. Buzz understood the financial situation of some of the locals coming over from the other dz and had planned accordingly. He had a stock of Cypresses and was selling them to the new fun jumpers on installment plans, so I bought one. I had to spend some money, but not so much to keep me on the ground. I will also never forget how nice and accommodating he was to someone he had never met before. I still think people have the right to choose their own fate and there is no cure for stupidity, but since I've have seen two cypress saves with my own eyes, I can not possibly imagine jumping without one now (except if I was doing CRW). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airgord 1 #24 November 26, 2002 Tell Jen the pilot that Gordo says hi. Thx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #25 November 26, 2002 QuoteTell Jen the pilot that Gordo says hi. Thx. Message has been forwarded to her. Blue Skies! Buzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
