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fudd

Cypress fire

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I would probably quit, but I'm not sure. It all depends on the jump specifics.

As far as jumping a CYPRESS, it doesn't really matter to me whether I have one or not. Yes I would prefer to have it there, at least then I might have the choice to choose another sport. When I get my first rig, I will look for one that has, or is CYPRESS ready, but money IS a factor. I try not to think of the CYPRESS as anything but a little button that I have to press a few times before a jump. As long as I don't think of it as a "back-up" I will never rely on it, and that's the way it should be.

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A cypres fire is nothing more than a cypres fire. The important things are the reasons, the possible corrective actions and the ratio "screw up"/mishap. For instance:
- acute medical reason: probably mainly mishap, I'd go back skydiving after recovery
- chronic medical reason: light screw up, I'd go back skydiving only with medical agreement
- expected collision (big way, coaching...): moderate screw up, i'd asses again the actual level of risk vs the real risk before going back skydiving
- unexpected collision: significant screw up, i'd get additional training and step back to more appropriate groups before going back skydiving
- too busy or alti failure: major screw up, i would get some serious additional training for discipline and awareness before going back skydiving

Anyway, this is purely hypothetical... over the last 1000 jumps i hardly used any AAD.

As a side question: why were you so specific in the topic? Why is the cypres fire different from other life threatening situations?

GB

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I still think they are great tools, but if you are saved by one....you should look into golf.



This reminded me of something I heard last summer. Golf is statistically the single MOST deadly sport (ie skydiving is safer). Kinda makes you think.
Flying Hellfish #470

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This reminded me of something I heard last summer. Golf is statistically the single MOST deadly sport (ie skydiving is safer). Kinda makes you think.



Common sense is telling me that this is not true.

edit:
And while I'm posting I might as well comment on the topic of the thread..:S
I don't have a CYPRES, and I'm not planning on getting one. If I had a CYPRES-fire with some other rig than my own? I don't know. I might quit, I might not.

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As a side question: why were you so specific in the topic? Why is the cypres fire different from other life threatening situations?



The difference is that the cypress fires at 750' If you haven't pulled (Reserve at that alti) by then, it's to late.

My reason for posting this poll were to learn how people look at their cypres, what's their limits and how they considder the cypress in their risk calculation.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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I guess personally I would immediately rent a rig and jump, a solo, concentrating on visually checking altitude and comparing that to what my altimeter says.

Then I would quit for the day....and take some time away from the DZ to really think about what led to my Cypres fire and whether I need to quit.

~Anne

I'm a Doll!!!!

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This reminded me of something I heard last summer. Golf is statistically the single MOST deadly sport (ie skydiving is safer). Kinda makes you think.



Common sense is telling me that this is not true.

edit:
And while I'm posting I might as well comment on the topic of the thread..:S
I don't have a CYPRES, and I'm not planning on getting one. If I had a CYPRES-fire with some other rig than my own? I don't know. I might quit, I might not.


The number of golfers killed per year (at least in the US) is far greater than the 28-33 per year reported by the USPA, (lightning strikes, players struck by errant balls, heat stroke, etc)

And I have a cypress, if it fired due to an alti-awareness issue, I think that I would have to hang up my rig and bring the fishing poles out of retirement

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

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My reason for posting this poll were to learn how people look at their cypres, what's their limits and how they considder the cypress in their risk calculation.



fair enough mate! :) wonder what divers who don't utilize RSL's would do if they had a mal, and didn't pull their reserve handle after cutting away? *smirk* after all the only sure thing about sky diving, is you will land.
--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

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a lot of people that were in a car accident (even if it wasnt their fault) , never drive again. or at least try to avoid driving.

i guess its a simple fact that "normal" people tend to stop doing something that has almost killed them.

now, question is, are we "normal" people ? ;)

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

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If you cut away and not pull your reserve.....
You also died.

Problem is I have yet to see ANYONE beat an RSL.
So you never know what someone would do.

If you cut away, did not pull the silver handle didn't have an RSL, and got saved by your cypres...same as we have been talking.

Ron
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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If you cut away, did not pull the silver handle didn't have an RSL, and got saved by your cypres...same as we have been talking.



psssssst.........hey Ron, that portion of my post was intended as theoretical satire. :S sorry you missunderstood. take care, be safe, happy holidays, and "cheers!" ;)
--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

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A cypres fire is nothing more than a cypres fire



?!?!?!?!? Nothing more than a CYPRES fire??!?!?!?

A CYPRES fire is someone, for some reason falling at greater than 86 mph at 750 feet AGL. In other words about 4.5 seconds from impact!

In more other words someone who should be dead!


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The important things are the reasons



Yep...if its a medical problem that made it so you could not save your own life you should not be jumping. It is putting too much on the line. Trusting a little black box way too much. If this problem is fixed, continue to jump...If not ground yourself.

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expected collision



You expect a collision???? I wouldn't go then.

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unexpected collision



This is what they are made for....well they are made for all kinds of stupid things also. But this one is the one reason I jump one. If I ever thought I could not handle saving my own ass, I would quit jumping.


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too busy or alti failure



Again these are REALLY stupid reasons to get saved. If this happened to me, I'd quit. I would fiqure I was already dead.

But the "CYPRES fire is nothing more than a CYPRES fire" really kills me....You are dead, except for the wonders of electrons in black boxes. It is this attitude that lets people take less responsability for their own actions.

Read slowly: If your CYPRES fires, and you did not pull some type of device to stop you from smacking into terra firma....you should be DEAD! Its not like a reserve, where you took action to save your life...It is a passive backup to either:

A. An accident where you are knocked out.

B. Some LARGE amount of stupidity, neglect, carelesness or incompetance.

If it was A I could see jumping again...B I am not sure.
Skydiving is not for everyone, no matter how much they may love it. If they can not handle the tasks that it requires, they should not be jumping. Period.

Ron
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Um Ron thats Frost 0
14.9 never happened according to USPA.

I have seen a girl from a Deland 4way team have a cypress fire once. She didnt miss the next load. She was extremely shaken up and it taught her a good lesson, as a matter of fact she had the same problem the next day (Total due to mis-routed pull out) and handled it perfectly. With what happened she actually just got beat by her cypress, so even if she didnt have one she would have been fine. I also watched a visiting Aff instructor (From canada) loose a student when the student had a hard pull and the student had a cypress fire. That one I blame the instructor for, but should the student quit? I dont think so. There is many circumstances to a cypress fire. I dont think you should quit over it, but you should definitely take a while and think about what happened, learn from it.
I also know a guy that pulls low routinely, (I dont like it) but I watch him from above routinely, if he had a mal I'm sure he would be buying a new cutter, does that count?


Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

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>A CYPRES fire is someone, for some reason falling at greater than
> 86 mph at 750 feet AGL. In other words about 4.5 seconds from
> impact!

Not really. It means one of two things:

-the cypres detected an air pressure change in excess of its firing parameters
-the cypres malfunctioned.

If you set your cypres and jump at a lower elevation, it could easily fire at 2500 feet AGL. If someone on the ground uses a radio transmitter, it could fire at 100 feet while you are under canopy. If you set it and a storm hits, then you jump after it clears, it could easily fire 500 feet higher. It could also fire when you pull at 1200 feet and have your burble clear.

Or it could fire because you've actually reached 750 feet in freefall. However, since the device is not infallible, it doesn't necessarily mean that. In fact, most cypres fires do not occur when someone is in freefall with nothing out at 750 feet.

>In more other words someone who should be dead!

I know at least ten people who have had cypres fires who were under canopies or in the process of pulling. I don't personally know any who needed one to save their lives, although one was glad she had it. I almost had a cypres firing last week - I had to pull at 1400 feet once to get clear air due to traffic, and had a long snivel.

Everyone gets a cypres "in case they get knocked out." However, if you ever need it, chances are you will have forgotten to pull. The most likely reason to have to replace a cutter, though, is a misfire - one where the main or reserve was already open.

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But the "CYPRES fire is nothing more than a CYPRES fire" really kills me....You are dead, except for the wonders of electrons in black boxes. It is this attitude that lets people take less responsability for their own actions.



I would definitely take a hard look at how I approach the sport if my Cypres fired, but I'm not sure I share your point of view Ron.

My goal when I jump is to have an uneventful ride under my main. Everything else is backup - reserve, rsl, cypres. I would think very hard about any mistake that causes the backups to kick in - and whether I actively pulled the reserve or the black box did it isn't fundamentally different, they just work differently, I consciouly bought & turned on my Cypres before jumping after all.

I think the Cypres is singled out because many jumpers started jumping without one. What about the guy who buys a high performance main and cuts away once a month because he can't handle the openings? Or the sloppy packer who packs himself lineovers on a regular basis? I'd say they should reconsider what they're doing as much as someone who gets a Cypres fire...

Franck

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I have had a cypress fire and i didn't stop me. i took a couple of months off and decided that i could stop, but i am alot more aware of my altitude now. this happened when i had about 30 jumps now i have about 300.

"It's hard to fly with the eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys."
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Bill ,

your getting a little to detailed here...

I said several times that when the jumper is in the process of deploying that it is not the issue....They are saving their own lives, that the box beat them to it.

My issue is with the people who do nothing.

And yes to the other post, if you are always having mals under your new canopy you should look at you body position/packing....But mals do not always equal death.

Just loosing track of altitude and being low enough to have your little black box save you can be equal to death.

And if you pull low and the unit fires....Its not a misfire.
You are low, you are still moving fast. It fires because it cannot tell the difference between a low pull/long snivel and someone not planning on pulling....

Again I said if you are in the process of saving your life, and happen to be low and it fires...not a big deal...But if you just freeze and do nothing...You are in the wrong sport.

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I know at least ten people who have had cypres fires who were under canopies or in the process of pulling. I don't personally know any who needed one to save their lives, although one was glad she had it. I almost had a cypres firing last week - I had to pull at 1400 feet once to get clear air due to traffic, and had a long snivel



Then these people say to themselves..."Hey dummy, I pulled low. Don't do that".

I am talking about the ones that would have been craters.

But anyway, I can see that people like to rely on them.

I am not going to argue it.

It seems strange to me that there was a long debate on audible alti's, and that most didn't like them because you can get to used to them, but a CYPRES seems to be fine...

I just don't get it.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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But anyway, I can see that people like to rely on them.



What do you mean by rely? I "rely" on it as much as I "rely" on having a reserve. Meaning I count it as one of the factors that contribute to my safety.
You're not suggesting that people are screaming through 700' looking at their alti and just thinking "let's wait for the Cypres to save me" - so what do you mean by "rely on them"?

Franck

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