SkySlut 0 #1 July 31, 2003 So I went from Orlando to Providence this past week. Here is my story: Orlando was no problem whatsoever, my rig which was in a carryon bag didnt even get a second glance. My g/f's bag was looked at more because of a makeup kit. I was pretty happy about that!!! Heading back to Orlando from Providence was a different story. I have no idea what set their metal detectors off (I had nothing in my pockets at all) but I had to get the wand with nothing found, then they wiped me down for bomb residue!!! (by the way, when they do this DO NOT ask them why they are testing you for bomb residue, apparently asking a question that contains the phrase "bomb residue" really makes them nervous and gets you scrutinized even further-I thought I was going to jail for that question for a brief time). So the guy opens up my bag and digs through everything...jumpsuit, with special attention paid to my grippers...logbook, they dug through everything...rig, the guy knew what he was looking at and didnt pull any handles or anything, but they put it through the xray machine again along with a few questions about "canisters". Anyways, they let me through and I was off to Florida. Just when I thought I was done...I was unpacking my bag that I checked and I found this "Notice of Baggage Inspection" in my bag. I thought I would pass this on. Here it is in its entirety: To protect you and your fellow passengers, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law to inspect all checked baggage. As part of this process, some bags are opened and physically inspected. Your bag was among those selected for physical inspection. During the inspection, your bag and its contents may have been searched for prohibited items. At the completion of the inspection, the contents were returned to your bag, which was resealed. If the TSA screener was unable to open your bag for inspection because it was locked, the screener may have been forced to break the locks on your bag. TSA sincerely regrets haveing to do this, and has taken care to resear your bag upon completion of inspection. However, TSA is not liable for damage to your locks resulting from this necessary security precaution. For packing tips and other suggestions that may assist you during your next trip, visit: www.TSATravelTips.us We appreciate your understanding and cooperation. If you have questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to contact the TSA Consumer Response Center: Phone: 1 866 289-9673 Email: [email protected] Sorry for the typos, but it has been a while since my high school typing class and I am too lazy to edit the whole thing, but you get the picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 561 #2 July 31, 2003 If the TSA screener was unable to open your bag for inspection because it was locked, the screener may have been forced to break the locks on your bag. TSA sincerely regrets haveing to do this, and has taken care to resear your bag upon completion of inspection. However, TSA is not liable for damage to your locks resulting from this necessary security precaution. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will someone please explain how this practice differs from "break and enter?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #3 July 31, 2003 QuoteWill someone please explain how this practice differs from "break and enter?" Mmmmmore like unlawful search and seizure, but we get the idea.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #4 July 31, 2003 Not really. Flying is a privelage, not a right. By flying you are automatically consenting to the search and/or seizure. You have a choice not to fly and be subjected to it. Not that I think our rights aren't already being trampled, but this isn't something that I think is unexpected nor unwarranted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mofo554 0 #5 July 31, 2003 Flying is a privelege, not a right. I agree there. However, our rights, as far as flying is concerned, are not being trampled. Without straying too far from the purpose of this forum, it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NeedToJump 0 #6 July 31, 2003 So I guess my Cypres card didn't help you out then?Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #7 July 31, 2003 No they asked me about a "canister"...so I told them "no, no canister". I thought I was going to have to whip it out though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #8 July 31, 2003 I got that nice little note in my luggage on my way back from Portland last month. I knew there was something up because there was a blue zip-tie on my zipper that hadn't been there when I boarded the plane. When I looked inside, it didn't look like much was rifled through though, it looked pretty much the same as I had packed it and nothing was missing, thank goodness.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rdesilets 0 #9 July 31, 2003 Not to change the subject, but where did you jump while up here? Did you do the 48 way seq. in Maine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites corpkid 0 #10 July 31, 2003 So, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mofo554 0 #11 July 31, 2003 Anything you bring onto a commercial flight is subject to being searched. This has been the case for a long time. After 9/11, the whole process was stepped up to increase security. So, anybody who is dumb enough to bring a contraband onto a commercial flight deserves the punishment they are likely to receive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakous 0 #12 July 31, 2003 I just recently flew and had a layover in Minn. Because of the layover I choose to carry my rig on the plane with me. There was no problem at my initial departing airport (Dulles). However, after going outside in Minn and comeing back through the screeners. The lady stopped it on the belt for a bit and looked at me and asked "is this some type of exercise equipment"? Uh, well yes it is sort of. I am glad that it was that simple for me, but at the same time that she questioned it and let it go with my word. Fortunately, I don't fit the body cavity search profile.:-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #13 July 31, 2003 Nope...had to do the wedding thing, sorry, I was up there friday afternoon and sunday all day!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,155 #14 July 31, 2003 I had the best time watching my dad's luggage be searched once. He's 85 and very limited in his sight, and he packs his bag so tight that the top springs up when you unzip it. The inspector had a tough time with it (random pick). I'll say, too, though, that given that he was randomly selected, they took it seriously. Questioned the nice 85-year-old blind man, and searched his bag pretty carefully, and then made sure nothing breakable-looking was wrecked when they (with quite a bit of effort) closed it back up again. While they're not all perfect, or even good, I have a feeling that most of the TSA folks are trying to do a good job. They've just been told that a shovel is the best tool to use to scratch people's backs, and can't understand why it's not working so well. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlueEyedMonster 0 #15 August 1, 2003 QuoteSo, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? The could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites harryskydives 0 #16 August 1, 2003 Seems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #17 August 2, 2003 QuoteSeems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. They do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #18 August 2, 2003 QuoteFlying is a privelege, not a right. I agree there. However, our rights, as far as flying is concerned, are not being trampled. Without straying too far from the purpose of this forum, it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. The current precautions being taken are a knee jerk reaction performed by the people who used to cook you burger at MacDonald's. What you are seeing is a new bureaucracy being built. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #19 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again) I just returned from Bangkok yesterday and saw this procedure. The problem with it is they don't screen your carry on at the same time. If I wanted to plant a bomb on the plane I could initially place it in my carry on until my checked bags are screened. Then, since I still have control of my carry on and checked luggage, I could transfer the bomb to my checked luggage. They place a little piece of tape on your luggage to prevent you from opening it but it was only covering one opening on my luggage. I could still have done it. There was a better procedure in Warsaw, Poland in the Lufthansa section. They screened everything, including you, before you checked in for the flight. If it needed to be opened then they asked your permission and did it in front of you. If you didn't give permission you didn't get on the plane. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #20 August 2, 2003 QuoteThe could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Exactly. If the LEO has a legal right to be where he/she can see the item and a legal right to be where he/she can seize the item then it is a legal seizure. It doesn't matter if the item seized was the initial reason for the seizure or not. There must be an initial reason though. They have to show probable cause that evidence of a crime is at a certain location and that it will be present at that location at the time of the search. A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". The constitution requires searches to be "reasonable". In a situation where the safety of civilians or LEOs are at risk then the threshold for "reasonable" is reduced from "probable cause" to "reasonable suspicion". "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #21 August 2, 2003 A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". They do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #22 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. You're right. They can use certain "exceptions" to normal search procedures. They do random checks on luggage and people. They also conduct searches based on "probable cause" generated by the x-rays. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,436 #23 August 3, 2003 > it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, >commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. How do you figure? The hijackers used boxcutters last time. A boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #24 August 3, 2003 not to mention the number of potentially lethal items that are blithly ignored.. ball point pens, broken cds shoe strings...etc. the change in public perception of hijackings and thier motives made the skies 'safer'. All the TSA has done is increase the hassle to travellers.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #25 August 3, 2003 QuoteA boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. So, by this argument we should only accept procedures that are 100% infallible. That doesn't make any sense. It is a lot harder to get a sharp edged weapon or a bomb on a commercial plane since the new procedures were put in place......period. No system will ever be infallible, but that doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and do nothing. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
riggerrob 561 #2 July 31, 2003 If the TSA screener was unable to open your bag for inspection because it was locked, the screener may have been forced to break the locks on your bag. TSA sincerely regrets haveing to do this, and has taken care to resear your bag upon completion of inspection. However, TSA is not liable for damage to your locks resulting from this necessary security precaution. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will someone please explain how this practice differs from "break and enter?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #3 July 31, 2003 QuoteWill someone please explain how this practice differs from "break and enter?" Mmmmmore like unlawful search and seizure, but we get the idea.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 July 31, 2003 Not really. Flying is a privelage, not a right. By flying you are automatically consenting to the search and/or seizure. You have a choice not to fly and be subjected to it. Not that I think our rights aren't already being trampled, but this isn't something that I think is unexpected nor unwarranted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mofo554 0 #5 July 31, 2003 Flying is a privelege, not a right. I agree there. However, our rights, as far as flying is concerned, are not being trampled. Without straying too far from the purpose of this forum, it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #6 July 31, 2003 So I guess my Cypres card didn't help you out then?Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #7 July 31, 2003 No they asked me about a "canister"...so I told them "no, no canister". I thought I was going to have to whip it out though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #8 July 31, 2003 I got that nice little note in my luggage on my way back from Portland last month. I knew there was something up because there was a blue zip-tie on my zipper that hadn't been there when I boarded the plane. When I looked inside, it didn't look like much was rifled through though, it looked pretty much the same as I had packed it and nothing was missing, thank goodness.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rdesilets 0 #9 July 31, 2003 Not to change the subject, but where did you jump while up here? Did you do the 48 way seq. in Maine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites corpkid 0 #10 July 31, 2003 So, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mofo554 0 #11 July 31, 2003 Anything you bring onto a commercial flight is subject to being searched. This has been the case for a long time. After 9/11, the whole process was stepped up to increase security. So, anybody who is dumb enough to bring a contraband onto a commercial flight deserves the punishment they are likely to receive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakous 0 #12 July 31, 2003 I just recently flew and had a layover in Minn. Because of the layover I choose to carry my rig on the plane with me. There was no problem at my initial departing airport (Dulles). However, after going outside in Minn and comeing back through the screeners. The lady stopped it on the belt for a bit and looked at me and asked "is this some type of exercise equipment"? Uh, well yes it is sort of. I am glad that it was that simple for me, but at the same time that she questioned it and let it go with my word. Fortunately, I don't fit the body cavity search profile.:-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #13 July 31, 2003 Nope...had to do the wedding thing, sorry, I was up there friday afternoon and sunday all day!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,155 #14 July 31, 2003 I had the best time watching my dad's luggage be searched once. He's 85 and very limited in his sight, and he packs his bag so tight that the top springs up when you unzip it. The inspector had a tough time with it (random pick). I'll say, too, though, that given that he was randomly selected, they took it seriously. Questioned the nice 85-year-old blind man, and searched his bag pretty carefully, and then made sure nothing breakable-looking was wrecked when they (with quite a bit of effort) closed it back up again. While they're not all perfect, or even good, I have a feeling that most of the TSA folks are trying to do a good job. They've just been told that a shovel is the best tool to use to scratch people's backs, and can't understand why it's not working so well. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlueEyedMonster 0 #15 August 1, 2003 QuoteSo, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? The could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites harryskydives 0 #16 August 1, 2003 Seems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #17 August 2, 2003 QuoteSeems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. They do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #18 August 2, 2003 QuoteFlying is a privelege, not a right. I agree there. However, our rights, as far as flying is concerned, are not being trampled. Without straying too far from the purpose of this forum, it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. The current precautions being taken are a knee jerk reaction performed by the people who used to cook you burger at MacDonald's. What you are seeing is a new bureaucracy being built. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #19 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again) I just returned from Bangkok yesterday and saw this procedure. The problem with it is they don't screen your carry on at the same time. If I wanted to plant a bomb on the plane I could initially place it in my carry on until my checked bags are screened. Then, since I still have control of my carry on and checked luggage, I could transfer the bomb to my checked luggage. They place a little piece of tape on your luggage to prevent you from opening it but it was only covering one opening on my luggage. I could still have done it. There was a better procedure in Warsaw, Poland in the Lufthansa section. They screened everything, including you, before you checked in for the flight. If it needed to be opened then they asked your permission and did it in front of you. If you didn't give permission you didn't get on the plane. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #20 August 2, 2003 QuoteThe could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Exactly. If the LEO has a legal right to be where he/she can see the item and a legal right to be where he/she can seize the item then it is a legal seizure. It doesn't matter if the item seized was the initial reason for the seizure or not. There must be an initial reason though. They have to show probable cause that evidence of a crime is at a certain location and that it will be present at that location at the time of the search. A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". The constitution requires searches to be "reasonable". In a situation where the safety of civilians or LEOs are at risk then the threshold for "reasonable" is reduced from "probable cause" to "reasonable suspicion". "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #21 August 2, 2003 A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". They do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #22 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. You're right. They can use certain "exceptions" to normal search procedures. They do random checks on luggage and people. They also conduct searches based on "probable cause" generated by the x-rays. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,436 #23 August 3, 2003 > it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, >commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. How do you figure? The hijackers used boxcutters last time. A boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #24 August 3, 2003 not to mention the number of potentially lethal items that are blithly ignored.. ball point pens, broken cds shoe strings...etc. the change in public perception of hijackings and thier motives made the skies 'safer'. All the TSA has done is increase the hassle to travellers.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #25 August 3, 2003 QuoteA boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. So, by this argument we should only accept procedures that are 100% infallible. That doesn't make any sense. It is a lot harder to get a sharp edged weapon or a bomb on a commercial plane since the new procedures were put in place......period. No system will ever be infallible, but that doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and do nothing. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
corpkid 0 #10 July 31, 2003 So, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mofo554 0 #11 July 31, 2003 Anything you bring onto a commercial flight is subject to being searched. This has been the case for a long time. After 9/11, the whole process was stepped up to increase security. So, anybody who is dumb enough to bring a contraband onto a commercial flight deserves the punishment they are likely to receive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakous 0 #12 July 31, 2003 I just recently flew and had a layover in Minn. Because of the layover I choose to carry my rig on the plane with me. There was no problem at my initial departing airport (Dulles). However, after going outside in Minn and comeing back through the screeners. The lady stopped it on the belt for a bit and looked at me and asked "is this some type of exercise equipment"? Uh, well yes it is sort of. I am glad that it was that simple for me, but at the same time that she questioned it and let it go with my word. Fortunately, I don't fit the body cavity search profile.:-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #13 July 31, 2003 Nope...had to do the wedding thing, sorry, I was up there friday afternoon and sunday all day!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,155 #14 July 31, 2003 I had the best time watching my dad's luggage be searched once. He's 85 and very limited in his sight, and he packs his bag so tight that the top springs up when you unzip it. The inspector had a tough time with it (random pick). I'll say, too, though, that given that he was randomly selected, they took it seriously. Questioned the nice 85-year-old blind man, and searched his bag pretty carefully, and then made sure nothing breakable-looking was wrecked when they (with quite a bit of effort) closed it back up again. While they're not all perfect, or even good, I have a feeling that most of the TSA folks are trying to do a good job. They've just been told that a shovel is the best tool to use to scratch people's backs, and can't understand why it's not working so well. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlueEyedMonster 0 #15 August 1, 2003 QuoteSo, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? The could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites harryskydives 0 #16 August 1, 2003 Seems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #17 August 2, 2003 QuoteSeems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. They do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #18 August 2, 2003 QuoteFlying is a privelege, not a right. I agree there. However, our rights, as far as flying is concerned, are not being trampled. Without straying too far from the purpose of this forum, it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. The current precautions being taken are a knee jerk reaction performed by the people who used to cook you burger at MacDonald's. What you are seeing is a new bureaucracy being built. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #19 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again) I just returned from Bangkok yesterday and saw this procedure. The problem with it is they don't screen your carry on at the same time. If I wanted to plant a bomb on the plane I could initially place it in my carry on until my checked bags are screened. Then, since I still have control of my carry on and checked luggage, I could transfer the bomb to my checked luggage. They place a little piece of tape on your luggage to prevent you from opening it but it was only covering one opening on my luggage. I could still have done it. There was a better procedure in Warsaw, Poland in the Lufthansa section. They screened everything, including you, before you checked in for the flight. If it needed to be opened then they asked your permission and did it in front of you. If you didn't give permission you didn't get on the plane. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #20 August 2, 2003 QuoteThe could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Exactly. If the LEO has a legal right to be where he/she can see the item and a legal right to be where he/she can seize the item then it is a legal seizure. It doesn't matter if the item seized was the initial reason for the seizure or not. There must be an initial reason though. They have to show probable cause that evidence of a crime is at a certain location and that it will be present at that location at the time of the search. A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". The constitution requires searches to be "reasonable". In a situation where the safety of civilians or LEOs are at risk then the threshold for "reasonable" is reduced from "probable cause" to "reasonable suspicion". "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #21 August 2, 2003 A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". They do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #22 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. You're right. They can use certain "exceptions" to normal search procedures. They do random checks on luggage and people. They also conduct searches based on "probable cause" generated by the x-rays. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,436 #23 August 3, 2003 > it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, >commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. How do you figure? The hijackers used boxcutters last time. A boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #24 August 3, 2003 not to mention the number of potentially lethal items that are blithly ignored.. ball point pens, broken cds shoe strings...etc. the change in public perception of hijackings and thier motives made the skies 'safer'. All the TSA has done is increase the hassle to travellers.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #25 August 3, 2003 QuoteA boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. So, by this argument we should only accept procedures that are 100% infallible. That doesn't make any sense. It is a lot harder to get a sharp edged weapon or a bomb on a commercial plane since the new procedures were put in place......period. No system will ever be infallible, but that doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and do nothing. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
wmw999 2,155 #14 July 31, 2003 I had the best time watching my dad's luggage be searched once. He's 85 and very limited in his sight, and he packs his bag so tight that the top springs up when you unzip it. The inspector had a tough time with it (random pick). I'll say, too, though, that given that he was randomly selected, they took it seriously. Questioned the nice 85-year-old blind man, and searched his bag pretty carefully, and then made sure nothing breakable-looking was wrecked when they (with quite a bit of effort) closed it back up again. While they're not all perfect, or even good, I have a feeling that most of the TSA folks are trying to do a good job. They've just been told that a shovel is the best tool to use to scratch people's backs, and can't understand why it's not working so well. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #15 August 1, 2003 QuoteSo, if they are looking for "dangerous stuff" like bombs, etc... What do you suppose would happen if they found something illegal, yet didn't pose a threat to passengers (like a bag of pot or something of that nature)? Not that I would ever be so stupid as to actually put that in my luggage, but you have to wonder...? The could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #16 August 1, 2003 Seems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #17 August 2, 2003 QuoteSeems I remember a program like "60 minutes", where the airport handles were caught on video taking jewerly, panties, and and other things. Seems to me that the check in and luggage / personal screening should be put in parallel so that everything is done at the same time. Then if they have a problem with your luggage ect you are still there. A little re design of the airport check in is in order. They do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #18 August 2, 2003 QuoteFlying is a privelege, not a right. I agree there. However, our rights, as far as flying is concerned, are not being trampled. Without straying too far from the purpose of this forum, it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. The current precautions being taken are a knee jerk reaction performed by the people who used to cook you burger at MacDonald's. What you are seeing is a new bureaucracy being built. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #19 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do a similar thing in Bangkok your onboard luggage and cargo luggage go through xray as you walk through to the checking area, once you've checked in your cargo luggage go off to be processed normally (probably still checked again) I just returned from Bangkok yesterday and saw this procedure. The problem with it is they don't screen your carry on at the same time. If I wanted to plant a bomb on the plane I could initially place it in my carry on until my checked bags are screened. Then, since I still have control of my carry on and checked luggage, I could transfer the bomb to my checked luggage. They place a little piece of tape on your luggage to prevent you from opening it but it was only covering one opening on my luggage. I could still have done it. There was a better procedure in Warsaw, Poland in the Lufthansa section. They screened everything, including you, before you checked in for the flight. If it needed to be opened then they asked your permission and did it in front of you. If you didn't give permission you didn't get on the plane. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #20 August 2, 2003 QuoteThe could nail you for it. If they discover something illegal during a legal search for a different item, you can be prosicuted for the accidental discovery. Exactly. If the LEO has a legal right to be where he/she can see the item and a legal right to be where he/she can seize the item then it is a legal seizure. It doesn't matter if the item seized was the initial reason for the seizure or not. There must be an initial reason though. They have to show probable cause that evidence of a crime is at a certain location and that it will be present at that location at the time of the search. A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". The constitution requires searches to be "reasonable". In a situation where the safety of civilians or LEOs are at risk then the threshold for "reasonable" is reduced from "probable cause" to "reasonable suspicion". "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #21 August 2, 2003 A suspicious object discovered during the x-ray can give the government probable cause to conduct the search of your luggage. "Probable cause" is required for the search to be considered "reasonable". They do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #22 August 2, 2003 QuoteThey do not need "probable cause" to go through your luggage when you travel by comm. airlines. You're right. They can use certain "exceptions" to normal search procedures. They do random checks on luggage and people. They also conduct searches based on "probable cause" generated by the x-rays. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,436 #23 August 3, 2003 > it is my opinion that the current precautions being taken by the FAA, >commercial airlines, etc. are absolutely necessary to maintain safe skies. How do you figure? The hijackers used boxcutters last time. A boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #24 August 3, 2003 not to mention the number of potentially lethal items that are blithly ignored.. ball point pens, broken cds shoe strings...etc. the change in public perception of hijackings and thier motives made the skies 'safer'. All the TSA has done is increase the hassle to travellers.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #25 August 3, 2003 QuoteA boxcutter will not be reliably detected even with the new security procedures; they don't show up on one-plane X-ray and they don't search every bag. So, by this argument we should only accept procedures that are 100% infallible. That doesn't make any sense. It is a lot harder to get a sharp edged weapon or a bomb on a commercial plane since the new procedures were put in place......period. No system will ever be infallible, but that doesn't mean we should throw our hands up and do nothing. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
