HARD OPENINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jmpnkramer 0]

I have been hearing of too many people having hard openings. I was just wondering if ya'll are packing these hard opening yourself or what the case is?

Here are a few from the form in recent weeks who have had hard opening and the result.

LadySkydiver: Hard opening. Result

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the reserve housings on my risers have been partially ripped off.

VanillaSkyGirl: Hard Opening. Result-

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I had a violent opening on Sunday that tore a toggle keeper right off. I fought the grogginess and did not pass out. I corrected my spin and landed on my feet. I was taken to the ER that day/night. I thought that I just had some whiplash and a sliced up tongue/gums. I knew that nothing was broken, but I did not realize how hard I had also hit the back of my head. I have been so slow and groggy. I was told by my brother that I am slurring my words a little. I am struggling a little as I just went a little dizzy.

Larry: Hard Opening. Result

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pull at 3.0, the hardest, fastest opening ever, knocked the wind out of me, left out a loud involuntary grunt, looked up and saw torn center cell and broken lines

All I am wondering is are ya'll packing for yourselves? If so are you positive that you are doing it exactly the same every time?

I am not tooting my own hor but I have packed for myself since coming off student status. I ahve not had a hard opening since 95. That was right after I bought my first rig and was not very good at packing.

I was just curious. If you are not packing for yourself I suggest either start or get a new packer. These are some seriously hard openings. One's that could possibly hurt you seriously or even worse take you out.

I look forward to the comments. Thank you.

Blue Skies & Softer Openings,

Keith(KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[TaeKwonDoDo 0]

Had one last week on my Third pack-job - Just about lost a testicle (if the harness was 1" more over I would have) and the insides of my thighs hurt like piss the rest of the day.

Not sure about how far I rolled the nose or tucked in the slider but I payed attention to that on the remaining dives that day... and will continue to do so from now on.

- Jeff

"That's not flying, it's falling with style."

[jmpnkramer 0]

Well you are just learning to pack. It is better to have a really long snivel and cut it away then to me KAPOW'D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blue Skies & Softer Openings,

KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[steve1 5]

When I first got my Hornet I was having some slammer openings. I started psycho packing, and it seemed to help, but I was still getting the occasional hard opening. So in addition to psycho packing I started rolling the nose considerably, making sure the slider is quartered properly, and making sure the slider is pulled out slightly past the two rolls of the nose. Haven't had a hard one since.....(nock on wood)......Steve1

[Amazon 7]

I used to have a Parafoil back in the late seventies that had the old spider slider with a HUGE pilot chute to retard the openings..it didn't. It used to slam me about every 4th or 5th jump... about every 10 it would blow the steering lines off. I hated that canopy. It is one of the reasons my back is not very good now. I could take those kind of openings when I was in my twenties... but now.. 25 years later... no I like things softer.

I have had TWO hard openings on my current canopy.

I jump a PISA Conquest and as long as I roll the hell out of the nose it snivels quite nicely and I get good soft openings....I roll all 9 cells as one.. and then Pro Pack. I always flake all of the line groups.. and the tail.. carefully. It always opens on heading even though the single roll SHOULD induce a bit of asymmetry into the opening.

The only times in 120 jumps that it slapped me was when I had a packer ... a real pro.. at Lost Prairie.... decide he knew better.. and did the typical toss the 4 cells of the nose on each side into the center cell. I told him that was not the way I pack it and he said not to worry.. that I would love the opening. Apparently he felt he knew my canopy better than I did. I DID NOT LOVE THE OPENING. IN fact I sat out the rest of the day with my back hurting like hell. HE lost out on all further pack jobs and I used a couple other packers... the rest of the Boogie.. Pack jobs by Cathy ROCKED ...they listened to me.. and packed the way I wanted. No more bad openings. Other pack jobs were a girl whose name I forget... who packed up the demo Sabre 2 that Aubrey from PD set me up with. Good job by her as well.
I was taught the small roll from each side into the center cell nose when I took a packing class by a rigger at our DZ.. and it worked well on the SKYBARGE 290 they had in the student rigs. That is the way they wanted thier canopies packed when I was renting the gear so I complied. I bought a PD 9 cell and packed that.. that way as well. I pack a Triathalon that way too. BUT when I bought my Conquest... the rigger showed me the roll the whole nose trick for it. It works... I pack my own about half of the time...I like to be able to socialize after a jump.. watch the video.... and I can afford a packer so why not. Packing MATT.. rocks.. he listens to me.. and I get good openings. BUT The first time he packed for me... he packed the way he had been taught.. by the same rigger who taught my packing class.. with the roll stuff to the center.

I do not think that these two openings.. where I KNOW how they were packed....are anomalous. All my other openings are good soft snively openings I can live with.. since I am old and brittle and dont like slammers.

Amazon

[mbailey 0]

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I have been hearing of too many people having hard openings. I was just wondering if ya'll are packing these hard opening yourself or what the case is?

hi all.. i'm to the forums here.. I've been jumping a tri-190 for a few years now and i've had a few really hard ones.. usually not due to packing as much as line stowing.. initially I had tube stoes (bought the rig used and thats what it had).. every 10-15 jumps it would open pretty hard. I sort of accepted it as normal until one day it opened so hard it ripped the end-cells and I got a big bruise on the back of my head from where it hit the top of the container, along with giant purple swathes in the usual areas. Aerodyne set me straight with some rubber bands.. now the only time I get hard ones is when I have either got old rubber bands that are loose on the last few stowes, or open when moving too fast (or still moving forward)..

[ladyskydiver 0]

I've been packing for myself for awhile now. I've changed the way I pack due to my wonderfully hard opening.

I have incorporated the modifications to my packing (Psycho) that you suggested and the openings since then have been wonderfully sweet and gentle. Thanks for the suggestions!!

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[jlkilpatrick 0]

It isn't always the pack job. My brother and I have nearly identical canopies, (Hornet 210s), made only a few months apart. His is a very nice, gentle opener. No need to roll the nose, regular PRO pack, etc.

Mine, on the other hand, is out for blood. Psycho packing doesn't help in the least, (in fact, it makes the bruises bigger). Rolling the nose alone is iffy. It still whacked me about every other jump with just a nose roll. PISA suggested a domed slider. No help. Finally, I got the golden piece of advice. Heres how I got the damned thing to ease up on me.

First, I roll the hell out of the nose. Each cell is rolled individually, and then they are rolled together sequentially from the outside in. Center cell is pulled out in front. Slider is quartered, pulled out more in front, and kept firmly down on the slider stops. Tail is rolled very tight. Stow bands are replaced at the first hint of wear, and are tight. Last, and most importantly, I spend at least 1000' at the bottom of the dive slowing down, which is that golden piece of advice I mentioned.

Are my openings soft? Nope. Anybody else would call them brisk or even hard. What I get for my trouble is a nice, quick opening, that stops short of actually hurting, doesn't leave bruises anymore, and most importantly to me, is consistent. I know what to expect, and it's manageable.

Yes, I plan to get a new canopy soon. I got my current one used, and very cheap. I don't plan to sell it to anyone. It's got a mean streak a mile wide.

Have Fun!

Luke

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

Thank you for your post.

I didn't pack for myself when I had the hard opening. I used a different packer than I usually use. Sadly, he completely rushed it (he felt so bad afterwards), but I was told that by the rigger that I must have set the toggles incorrectly which caused an uneven deployment. I could have SWORN that I set them correctly as I checked them twice, but I was told that if I had set them both the right way, the right toggle holder would not have been torn off. The correct toggle placement can not be proved by me now, so I am going to have to take his word for it. I am surprised that this could be the cause for a hard opening.

A while ago, I made the decision to not pack when skydiving because I have health issues (pain & internal bleeding) that could occur and become aggravated when under the stress of packing. I may change my mind about packing at some point, but I doubt it.

I was completely out of my track when I went to throw, and I had been trying a "sit", which I never do. I'm sure that I was all over the sky when attempting to "sit", but I was definitely falling completely stable when I deployed.

My canopy is a Spectre 150, and I weigh around 97 lbs. One thing that I noticed from the beginning is that this particular Spectre does not open as slowly as it should. That is all that I know about my incident. Does anyone else have any comments or suggestions for not having another hard opening?

[Ronnie 0]

Toggles set the "right" way? Sounds like bullshit to me. If the loop is through the top of the toggle it should not be a problem. And isn't the packer supposed to check this to see if it is done or do it themselves? I mean, setting the toggles is part of a pack job, right? This is two hard openings I have heard of coming out of Elsinore. One which resulted in a broken Fibula. I wonder if it was the same packer? They were both Spectres too, which is weird considering they are very mellow openers if packed right.

[relyon 0]

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Toggles set the "right" way? Sounds like bullshit to me. If the loop is through the top of the toggle it should not be a problem.

Not BS at all. The loop must be below the guide ring or it will rip the keeper in the manner described.

Bob

[mjosparky 3]

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Toggles set the "right" way? Sounds like bullshit to me. If the loop is through the top of the toggle it should not be a problem.

Not BS at all. The loop must be below the guide ring or it will rip the keeper in the manner described.

Bob

Buzzzz, no more callers we have a winner. It really does sound like the brake was set above the ring.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydivingdutch 0]

I have packed all my jumps since like jump #5 and The only time I had a hard opening was with someone elses triathlon 135 (didnt pack that).

I always roll the nore pretty thight AND push it all the way forward into the cocoon, and i roll the tail like 8 times too. (PRO pack btw).

http://dropman.com

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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Not BS at all. The loop must be below the guide ring or it will rip the keeper in the manner described.

Bob
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Buzzzz, no more callers we have a winner. It really does sound like the brake was set above the ring.

I know it does sound like it, doesn't it? The sad part is that I double checked that the toggles were set under the ring twice. I set them right after I landed, and I had just talked with someone making sure that I was setting them the correct way just a few days earlier. I wanted to be so safe. I feel like an idiot. I can't believe that I set one toggle the wrong way.

Edited to add: Does anyone else ever feel at times like he or she is too stupid to be a part of this sport, especially with it being potentially dangerous to our health?

[TaeKwonDoDo 0]

AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHOOOOOOWWWWWWEEEEE...

Roll the nose! I have to remember to REALLY roll the nose.

Another hard opening on the first pack-job of the day today (about pack #5) - Some really good phonetic explecitives today given at 4K at very loud levels - glad there was no-one to hear me.

Man, I now KNOW what a wishbone feels like. I feel like I was split from between the legs half-way up.

I just looked and on the inside of my thighs I have baseball size bruises!!!

rollrollrollyurnose....

- Jeff

"That's not flying, it's falling with style."

[mjosparky 3]

Don't feel stupid. Sometimes your eyes see what your brain want to see. Not to long ago I did the same thing and the opening knocked the crap out of me and then went into a spin. Pain is an excellent teacher.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ltdiver 3]

I've had packers give my canopy a very brisk opening, and most have responded well with slowing my Spectre down nicely when asked (yes, my Spectre likes to be packed other than just the traditional way. It LIKES to open fast).

However, the HARDEST openings I ever had with my Spectre was when I put a new pc on it that was too large (or too non-porous). It wacked me GOOD a couple of times, then I put an old pc on the canopy for the rest of the day. My canopy returned to its normal beautiful self again.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[skymama 35]

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Edited to add: Does anyone else ever feel at times like he or she is too stupid to be a part of this sport, especially with it being potentially dangerous to our health?

Yes, and I quit for 7 months in the beginning after I had some problem jumps. But, it's hard to avoid the sky every day, and I was getting depressed at having to see it and not jump in it. Just keep learning and as your confidence builds you'll stop questioning yourself so much. You don't seem like a stupid girl to me, I think you can do it.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[panzwami 0]

Until recently I had been having some real trouble with extremely hard openings under my Nitron 150. I tried everything I could think of in terms of different packing methods, tighter stows, etc. Nothing really worked, and things continued badly until I had a couple in a row that were so hard, they ripped my slider apart. Right now it resembles a piece of swiss cheese.

Out of ideas, I finally called Precision and learned that some of the early Nitrons (one of which I own) had some problems with rough openings. They had since redesigned the slider, including making it larger, which seemes to address the problem. They shipped one out that day, no charge (props to Precision, by the way). I've got my fingers crossed that it will solve the problem.

Matt

[aero04 0]

I jump a Raider 220. I have to very tightly roll the nose and shove into the packjob as far as I can to get a good opening. If I don't, I punished for my carelessness on deployment.

[jmpnkramer 0]

I want to thank everyone for their response. I apologize for not keeping up. I was jumping this weekend. I Have printed the thread and will respond back to each individual tonite. Provided that my DSL is not acting up.

Don't you just hate paying for a service that is not there?

Blue Skies & Soft Openings,

KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[darkwing 4]

I am convinced that NO CANOPY IS IMMUNE to slammer openings. Regardless of how it is packed. It may not happen often, but it will happen. It is good that you haven't had one.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[tsisson 0]

Something to help prevent HARD openings....

For those of you who roll the nose, such as with the Sabre...roll it LOOSELY rather than tight pin-rolls...

I've found that when rolling the nose tightly, when you release your grip on the roll...the nose will "unwind" itself. When rolling loosely, the nose will tend to stay rolled as you push it into the canopy and dress the tail...

[grasshopper 0]

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This is two hard openings I have heard of coming out of Elsinore. One which resulted in a broken Fibula.

tell me how a hard opening results in a broken leg? that makes no sense to me.

while vsg's hard opening was packed by someone else, as a packer I must defend him. at elsinore (and perris I believe) setting the brakes is the jumpers responsibility, not the packer. and cora's hard opening, while at elsinore, was packed by her.

________________________________________________________
Abbie drove me to Idaho and all I got was this lousy sigline

[phonics1981 0]

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setting the brakes is the jumpers responsibility, not the packer.

Sorry, i'm new to packing but arent the brakes set during packing?

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"Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!"
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