Struggling student stuck on 3s delays

[gulaz 1]

A student at my dropzone had the same problem... they did about ten 3sec delays. They did AFF level 1, and that sorted out their arch, and relaxed them a bit more... might be worth a try.

[skydivejersey 0]

Don't worry to much about pushing away from the plane. Really you want to drop away from it - it doesn't take a huge sideways shove. Think more about a nice easy rotate on your hand and drop. Like you would to get of a high wall.

[betzilla 56]

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I think AFF is the best option for you. You need in-air assistance. AFF is indeed very expensive in UK but try to find out about other places like Empuribrava in Spain (www.skyrats.com) or Skydive Algarve in Portugal. They are less expensive and with the no.s of jumps you have they may put you straight to level 3. Talk to them and explain them your situation. IT IS DOABLE.

Good advice. And you may not even need the whole AFF program. My BF had all kind of trouble with his first freefall (a hop-n-pop) as a static-line student. His instructors finally said, "there's one more thing we can try, and if it doesn't work, you're done jumping." They took him on a high freefall jump. That gave him enough time to relax into the proper body position, and solved his problem. He then went back and finished the SL progression. Now he has 8000 jumps.

[faulknerwn 36]

Read my student logbook - I was a horrible student doing the same things you did. I don't have advice for you on how to get better, but it might make you feel better. I figured it out eventually.

W

http://crw.boxofclue.com/skydive/howcrw.html

[Scrumpot 1]

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I figured it out eventually.

No you didn't. That's why you do now primarily CReW! ...You're STILL on only 3sec delays even now yourself ---Admit it!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[1911 0]

not to be an @ass but how can you have that many jumps and not be able to be stable in belly mode and pull correctly....ok I'm a newbie also but WTF man?

If you have lived this long you might want to stop eh?

Flame suit is on..........

When in doubt......Empty the magazine!

[Scrumpot 1]

I've seen an excellent story before (which I wish were one an accessable electronic media for me to share) of a jumper who did the static line progression, almost exactly mirroring this! ...Not that it is "common", as most surely would have given up entirely by now. That jumper now has over 1,500 jumps & is every bit as compitent and capable as ANYONE in the sport. Sometimes it's just a matter of getting over whatever that otherwise seemingly insurmaountable hurdle or road block is, and then going from there. One thing for certain, if you QUIT, you never will!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jaaska 0]

Just curious, did you progress through S/L-training yourself, or perhaps AFF?

The reason I'm asking is that being stuck in the first short delays is quite common. I was very stuck myself . Some people stop, some try AFF, and some just won't give up and will be awarded - sooner or later.

[lintern 1]

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Is it a cargo door c-206 or can u get to the wing strut for a hanging exit?

The cessna 206 is a cargo door exit, it is not possible to do a hanging exit from this plane.

I have attached a sketch of the exit position I use.

The only difference is the fact that the door is on the opposite side of the plane (i.e. right hand exit).

[PhreeZone 15]

See if you can't do a float exit. Thats going to get you more squared in the door and presenting to the air faster.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[DeNReN 0]

Can u describe a float exit plz PhreeZone.

Lintern...a exit that puts you closer to a good arch will prob help.....afterall....on a 3 second delay there isnt really time to correct for a poor body position.

[dragon2 0]

That's what I did, on my first c&p.

I got stuck on dummy pulls, so I got 'kicked out of the plane' for a 5 sec delay. Made it 4 but it worked! After that, did the freefall progression. Learned the diving exit and after that the floaters exit which came in handy for the c&p I still had to do to get my A.

Not sure it's real standard, but, whatever works, ya know

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[lintern 1]

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A student at my dropzone had the same problem... they did about ten 3sec delays. They did AFF level 1, and that sorted out their arch, and relaxed them a bit more... might be worth a try.

This is something I have seriously considered for some time now.

Even after doing a tandem jump back in July, I felt alot more relaxed and confident about jumping for a short time, and it also made me more enthusiastic about getting onto solo freefall myself.

Ive asked at my DZ about doing just AFF level 1 but there is a big problem.

They will not let me do one level of AFF and then go back to RAPS without doing the RAPS training course again.

This does seem ridiculous considering I have done 60 RAPS jumps, but apparently these are the rules set out by the BPA (British Parachute Association).

Years ago this was often done with success. A student struggling on RAPS could do a level or two of AFF and then continue with the RAPS.

My CCI also said that he witnessed a student die from alternating from AFF to RAPS. He said that this was due to the fact that on AFF level 1 the student practiced 3 dummy pulls whilst in freefall, but when the student went back to RAPS they continued practicing 3 dummy pulls in freefall because the intense AFF training hammered this into him - this led to the students death.

I don't feel this would be the case with me although I cant say for definite as I havent done AFF.

But I do feel that having the experience of AFF level 1 would either help relax me and give me freefall experience or if unsuccessful show me that freefall is not for me.

But unfortunately I am not allowed to do this.

[lintern 1]

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See if you can't do a float exit. Thats going to get you more squared in the door and presenting to the air faster.

Could you please explain what a "float exit" is and whether it can be done from a Cessna 206, cargo door exit?

Thanks.

[lintern 1]

Some more thoughts to my current situation......

I think that at the end of the day any physically abled body can skydive.

I mean, how hard is it to look up, push your hips out, point your toes and hold your arms out level with your ears! Its not!

Which is why when practicing on the ground it is not a problem to achieve a good, stable position.

Doing it for real on exiting an aircraft thousands of feet up in the air doing 80mph is a completely different ball game, simply because of how the mind interprets the situation. From this respect, the vast majority of people cannot skydive or even consider the thought of jumping from a perfectly good aircraft.

And so the basics of skydiving seems to be more of a mind game than a physical skill.

I think this is where my problem lies.

Having thought more about why I am not able to do such a simple thing as arch - which is not a physically difficult thing to do - I have come up with the following to further explain the main reason I think I am having so much difficulty.

This sensory overload I get on exit when the adrenalin is really pumping, has two very negative effects on me.

Firstly I am almost unaware as to what is happening - the exit is a 'blur'. From the point of exit to the point of having an almost open canopy I only remember snap shots of what actually happens. This is why when people advise me to 'just arch' their advice is of no help. This is because I am unable to consciously tell myself what to do due to this sensory overload.

Secondly, an analogy to how I feel upon exit is similar I suppose to when a rabbit runs out in front of an on coming vehicle and freezes in the headlights. The rabbit behaves as if it were paralysed and is unable to make its body move safely out of the way. Much like me when I exit, I feel as if I have no control of my body, as if I am 'scared stiff'. I am nervous on exit, but alot of people feel the same at some point when jumping dont they? Especially in the early days of jumping and if there have been problems and mals etc.

Both of these negative effects probably sound extremely dangerous for someone to experience when skydiving.

BUT.... from my tandem experience I had the same experience for the first several seconds. After that my brain caught up and I was surprised at how relaxed and aware I actually became when falling stable in freefall.

So the reason I continue jumping is because I am hoping that even though the first few seconds maybe a blur, once I get stable in freefall my brain will catch up and I will be OK. In addition to this the other important thing I have been successful at doing every time is to find and pull the ripcord.

Some people suggest trying a longer delay like 10 seconds to allow me more time to correct my body position. My worry here is if I remain unstable or even worse become more unstable (like spinning) to the point where I freak out and can't even pull.

What makes it so difficult to deal with all this is the fact that I do not want to quit. It would be so easy to just stop jumping but I think that would piss me off even more than the problems I am having now.

PS. I did a 3 sec delay last Saturday and pulled on my back and at one point I was actually head first towards the ground.

My instructor was not very happy because the pilot chute and bag came out between my legs nearly causing an entanglement.

Because of this I have been put back onto the rope again. My instructor said I could try freefall every now and again but he is more concerned now about me doing freefall.

[PhreeZone 15]

A float exit would have you kneeing or standing more in the door sideways, with your head all the way out of the airplane and your sholder on the top of the door. Your hands would be in the door with one on the outside and one on the inside squezing the airplane between them. Your feet would depend on how well you fit in the door.

This has the advantage of you presenting square to the wind by just stepping to the side. On exit you would step out and fall straight down. You can start the arch in the door and as long as you don't let your right sholder get driven back by the wind blast its a simple exit.

Another option is to move to another DZ that will let you do something like an AFF Level 2 jump. you've clearly shown you can deploy the canopy and can fly it, but you would still need the JM's to help you out the door and to be there in freefall if needed. A larger plane like an Otter or a Let might help you too. I've seen lots of people freak in a Cessna when the door flips open that it does'nt phase them to see the Otter door open.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com