PhreeZone 15 #1 December 11, 2003 Based on this info it sounds like its illegal to jump Ultralights: ----------------------------- Part 103.1: For the purposes of this part, an ultralight vehicle is a vehicle that: (a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a single occupant; ---------------------------- There is an exception that allows two-occupant usage for instruction only, based on the following restrictions: 4. All flights carrying two occupants must be used for instruction only and one occupant must be recognized in writing by the EAA as being qualified and authorized to give instruction in an ultralight vehicle. 5. All single-occupant flights in two-seat ultralight vehicles are restricted to those associated with flight instruction. Such flights include, but are not limited to (a) ferrying the ultralight vehicles between locations where instruction and proficiency and competency checks will be conducted, (b) maintenance test flights, and (c) new vehicle checkouts, provided those flights are operated by a person as authorized in condition No. 4 of this exemption to give flight instruction. What would the penility be for jumping one? I understand the Pilot could be fined and I assume the same for the jumper. But if a USPA GM DZ allowed Ultralight jumps could the DZ be liable for that activity too?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #2 December 11, 2003 I would think that if the FAA were notified, all involved could be penalized. Laymans view tho, might run it thru the USPA lawyers before tryin it.Hearts & Minds 2 to the Heart- 1 to the Mind- Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #3 December 11, 2003 Close the box, Pandora!!!!! mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #4 December 11, 2003 The only ultralights that have 2 seats (in the US) are trainers. The chances are pretty good that if you own a 2 seater, you're an ultralight instructor. I doubt you'd find one that would let you jump. Not sure how someone becomes an ultralight instructor, but I'm guessing they'd lose that privalege if they got caught. If the pilot has a license and the aircraft is a certified experimental, then it can be done legally. Those probably make up the majority of "ultralight looking" 2 seaters that aren't technically ultralights. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #5 December 11, 2003 The answers are all in the FARs. Definition and interperetation are everything. In life, if the gov thinks there is a loophole in something, they will write up something to fix it, if there is a problem or not. One thing's for sure: If the FAA wants your ass, your ass is yours, no matter to what letter you follow the rules. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #6 December 11, 2003 An ultralight, by definition, is not an aircraft that requires a private pilot's license. Unfortunately, to be an ultralight, the aircraft must weigh less than (250?) pounds, not be able to carry two passengers, carry a max of 5 gallons of fuel, and have an engine that generates less than 55 mph in level flight. An ultralight that could carry a skydiver to altitude would be called an airplane, and would require all the jump pilot stuff. I had thought about the ultralight as an affordable way to keep in the airplane-driving thing, but skydiving is a much better fix. The governing stuff for ultralights: http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/AC103-7/ac103-7.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #7 December 11, 2003 Quote What would the penility be for jumping one? I understand the Pilot could be fined and I assume the same for the jumper. But if a USPA GM DZ allowed Ultralight jumps could the DZ be liable for that activity too? You will probably not get caught, but if you do, I think you already understand there is a clear violation. The FAA can bring action against any entity involved in the parachute operation, including the DZ. Please see my discussion of part 105.3 at: http://ranchskydive.com/safety/tb_article13.htm. This was written as an S&TA feature of The Ranch webs site last summer. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) Commercial Pilot (IAMSEL,G) Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #8 December 11, 2003 Quote...I think you already understand there is a clear violation. The FAA can bring action against any entity involved in the parachute operation, including the DZ... If, in fact, it were a violation, that would be true. That is to say, if it were a violation AND you did it at a dz, that would be true. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #9 December 11, 2003 Couldn't you say that you were taking the diver up to instruct him on what to do if your instructee panics and bails overboard? You could say that the best way to observe the shift in weight and balence would be by observing it from outside the aircraft thus mandating the person you are instructing to jump. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #10 December 11, 2003 QuoteCouldn't you say that you were taking the diver up to instruct him on what to do if your instructee panics and bails overboard? You could say that the best way to observe the shift in weight and balence would be by observing it from outside the aircraft thus mandating the person you are instructing to jump. -Blind I know someone who let a jumper get out. He swears he will never do that again. And he has flown for a skydiving operation before(not with the ultralight) Attached are some pics of some like the one my dad used to own. Considered experimental aircraft, not technically an ultralight. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caseadilla 0 #11 December 11, 2003 Its Illegal to Base jump off of antennas and most buildings, but that never stopped anybody. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 December 11, 2003 >Its Illegal to Base jump off of antennas and most buildings, but that never stopped anybody. Nope, but when a business could be facing fines and getting their GM membership revoked from the USPA some DZ's might not decide to allow this type of jumping at their DZ.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #13 December 11, 2003 QuoteIts Illegal to Base jump off of antennas and most buildings, but that never stopped anybody. Yah, but now you are involving another person in your activity that might not understand all the legalities involved and open themselves up to problems they didn't expect to have just so YOU can have a thrill.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #14 December 11, 2003 QuoteSec. 103.7 Certification and registration. (a) Notwithstanding any other section pertaining to certification of aircraft or their parts or equipment, ultralight vehicles and their component parts and equipment are not required to meet the airworthiness certification standards specified for aircraft or to have certificates of airworthiness. (b) Notwithstanding any other section pertaining to airman certification, operators of ultralight vehicles are not required to meet any aeronautical knowledge, age, or experience requirements to operate those vehicles or to have airman or medical certificates. (c) Notwithstanding any other section pertaining to registration and marking of aircraft, ultralight vehicles are not required to be registered or to bear markings of any type. just remember: QuoteSec. 103.9 Hazardous operations. (a) No person may operate any ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons or property. (b) No person may allow an object to be dropped from an ultralight vehicle if such action creates a hazard to other persons or property. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #15 December 11, 2003 >Its Illegal to Base jump off of antennas and most buildings, but that >never stopped anybody. It's not illegal to BASE jump an antenna or a building. It is illegal to trespass on an antenna or in a building. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #16 December 12, 2003 Does this include powered parachutes? I am very interested in jumping one of them some time in the future, when i'm more experianced. A two person PPC is a common sight and there not intended solely for instruction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkf1979 0 #17 December 12, 2003 check this site out. i don't know how to make clicky's so... http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/regulations.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #18 December 12, 2003 http://www.eaa.org/ultralights/regulations.htmlYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #19 December 12, 2003 PPCs fall under the same rules. If it meets the part 103 requirements, it's an ultralight and doesn't require a pilots license. If it doesnt, ie if it has 2 seats, it's not an ultralight and doesn't fall under the part 103 rules. Then it's gotta follow the same rules as a 182 or a twin otter. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flygator 0 #20 December 12, 2003 I am an ultralight flight instructor and yes it is illegal to jump out of an ultralight registered as an "instructor use only". If it were N numbered and you didn't charge for the ride then according to the FAA guys that visited me, isn't illegal... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #21 December 12, 2003 QuoteCouldn't you say that you were taking the diver up to instruct him on what to do if your instructee panics and bails overboard? You could say that the best way to observe the shift in weight and balence would be by observing it from outside the aircraft thus mandating the person you are instructing to jump. -Blind You could say a dog's tail is a leg, and that dogs have 5 legs. You would be wrong. (Adapted from Abraham Lincoln)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #22 December 12, 2003 I don't know about ultralight planes. I do have experience with powered parachutes and the FAA. I was allowed to jump from a PPC by the FAA, infact the person who gave me that permission was the head of the ultralight part of the FAA and was there to whitness the event. He told me that it was otherwise ilegal to jump from a PPC, unless it had a tail number wich is posssible to do. PPC's are to be used for instruction only if they are two place machines. However I will say that while working for the biggest manu of powered parachutes I would often jump from the machines with out notems. Have fun and be carefull jumping ppc's, they can be dangerous with the exit.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
