atsaubrey 0 #1 December 10, 2003 i have 11 jumps and have yet to get off the damn radio. I got hurt pretty good on jump three from a no flair landing. Both knees still hurt and it was over two months ago. Anyway...i need to get off the radio and on jump 11 my instructor (coach) really gave me a hard time about jumping with one saying i would be fine. Long story short i'm scared shitless..and haven't jumped again because of my fear. I want to jump today but dont know if i can do it. Any advise.?? By the way i load the canopy at 1.08:1 and with my exit weight im stuck with this canopy (340 ft2)..anybody got a PD 500 that will fit this container? lol"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #2 December 10, 2003 hmm.... advice.... 1. get in your car. 2. drive to the dropzone. 3. sign up for a couple of coach jumps. 4. get your radios 5. get on the plane. 6. get out of the plane. I was on radios for several more jumps than most AFFers, and still like to use them on coach jumps because I'm still figuring out where to flare. What worked for me was to use landmarks... when my shoes are even with the top of the flags or windsocks, I start my flare. (in theory...I'm still very much a newbie so I still screw it up regularly) If I begin my flare when my feet are even with the top of the flag, I usually have a good landing. Don't be ashamed about needing radios. They're a learning tool, and everyone has a different learning curve. Have them talk you through landing a couple of times just like you were doing AFF 1. Tell them "pretend I know as much as your average first jump student, and give me all the information you would give them." I did this on my AFF 6 because I'd been having so much trouble, and my landings on level 7 and 8 were GREAT, and I had no radios at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #3 December 10, 2003 I am with Nightngale. . .I will use the radio until I get at least 3 good flares at the right height. . .my jms don't talk to me much on it because they say I am great at setting up for landing. . .they really only coach me through the flare. . . Hopefully soon I can manage a landing without it. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #4 December 10, 2003 Practice your PLF. You should be able to drop and roll out of a bad flare without hurting yourself too much. When you next land, just assume you're gonna do a full PLF and do one, even if you could have stood it up. (if you could have, you'll know you could have and thats the important bit). I was cut free from a radio very soon in my training and I can remember a lot of crappy landings. I didn't stop PLFing until I was on my own ZP kit. I think the only real way to dial in your eyes to flare hight is to try and judge it yourself. You wont learn as well simply doing it when told. And that's why I say practice your PLF... cos you'sa gonna get it wrong. But like I said, you should be able to PLF and not even hurt yourself even when you do screw up. Hell, even if you do want to stay on the radio for the next couple of jumps, a good PLF will save you're knees there too. Good luck buddy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #5 December 10, 2003 I stayed on radio for my landings until jump 14. I, too, injured myself early in AFF and the subsequent fear had me grabbing a radio on every jump. What I finally realized was that I was using the radio too much. I was becoming too dependent on it. I knew what I needed to do, but I also knew that if I was making a mistake my instructor would be in my ear to help keep me safe. Finally, I just had to go for it and trust myself. My suggestion is to check the winds before your first off radio jump. Make a flight plan with your instructor. You will be in your holding area by xxx altitude. At 1000 you will start your downwind leg and you will turn crosswind at xxx feet (turning at a specific landmark) and then you will turn on final at xxx feet and another landmark. Remember to look out, not down....use flags, other people, whatever to help judge your altitude. Then give it a good, full flare and land. Visualize yourself doing this and visualize yourself doing well. Trust that you know what you need to do to get on the ground safely. And when you trust yourself, do it. You can get off of radio! Just remember the lessons you learned on your bad landings and visualize yourself doing a good landing. Prepare thoroughly before you jump and you should be fine! Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #6 December 10, 2003 Practice and use the PLF. It works. On the day you want to jump, try spending some extra time discussing canopy control with your instructor. Watch a couple of loads land with him, and discuss the different approaches. Make up a written flight plan using altitudes and landmarks, then follow that plan under canopy. Write in on the back of your hand if you have to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #7 December 10, 2003 And be prepared if the wind changes directions. . .this happened to me on AFF 3. I stopped forward movement and was being blown slightly sideways until I realized what had happened and corrected for it. The flight plan is a great tool, but remember. . .in some places the wind will shift. . .even if only slightly. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #8 December 10, 2003 What are you having trouble with? Is it getting to the landing area, or just flaring at the appropriate time? Canopy control is something that you should have by 11 jumps - knowing how to get to the target in no winds, light (student) winds, etc. If you're having a problem with this, get a canopy coach. Landing is where most students are likely to hurt themselves, and it takes practice to get the timing right. Like learning to ride a bike - you can either crash a lot, or you can use training wheels until you get it. I think not getting hurt is one of the best ways to keep students in the sport, so I don't think there's anything wrong with spending quite a few jumps teaching students when to flare by radio. Eventually, you'll see the timing. There are also a few different landing techniques - some work better for some people. Ask your instructors to give you a different way to learn to flare. Also, consider this - do you trust your instructors to flare you correctly every time? Most of the time, they do a fine job, but I've seen them flare students too high , and I've seen them flare students too low . At some point, you'll start to trust yourself more than your instructors.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elfanie 0 #9 December 10, 2003 Quote Anyway...i need to get off the radio and on jump 11 my instructor (coach) really gave me a hard time about jumping with one saying i would be fine. What is it they say....better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it? If you're worried about it, you can do what I did? I jumped with the radio a couple of times, but told them NOT to say ANYTHING to me unless it looked like I was messing up. Jumped 2-3 times with a silent radio and realized that I was doing fine. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #10 December 10, 2003 I dont really have issues with control just witrh the flairing part...i just cant seem to judge height and have no idea when to flare. I have watched and watched other people but everyone seems to flare at different times. I'd love to come in like all those tandems..most of those guys seem to stand up everytime even with the passenger. I have only ever stood up on one landing."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #11 December 10, 2003 Quotehmm.... advice.... 1. get in your car. 2. drive to the dropzone. 3. sign up for a couple of coach jumps. 4. get your radios 5. get on the plane. 6. get out of the plane. I'm with Nightingale! Being on radio is only a cushion and really shouldn't be depended upon. For example: I had been injured and spent months recovering and got back into jumping and had to wear a radio. On one of my coach jumps, the signals got crossed and I landed in corn (which is perfect for timing a flare, when it is fully grow of course ) After that incident, I told my coach he would have to PAY ME to wear that thing again, he laughed and said that I did ok...Relax, think, and get back out there. Have a blast!!~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EdC 0 #12 December 10, 2003 Good luck Big Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beej 0 #13 December 10, 2003 ..another big dude to swell the anvil ranks!I used to have the same prob...i burned in on a bad landing once, broke a few things, then for many jumps after that, my jump was ruined by the fear of another bad landing. I resorted to plf's each time for a while..regardless of whether I needed to or not. Eventually, confidence came back, and I started to 'step forward' near touchdown. Just persevere m8..and don't look at your feet. ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckbrown 0 #14 December 10, 2003 Big Ed has it. Most people who have flare problems are looking at the ground beneath them. Look at where you're going to land (or in Ed's case the horizon in front of you). It's the same as landing a plane. If you're scared keep jumping; familiarity with being in the air will ease the jitters and help you to focus on how the canopy reacts to your input at flare time. But, until you've got your flare down, PLF baby! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genoyamamoto 0 #15 December 11, 2003 You could try the oh sh!t method, it worked for me. It goes a follows in my head: 1) oh sh!t I should flare 2) oh sh!t I better flare 3) oh sh!t flare NOW!!! (flare flare flare) started doing that on jump 11 and have stood up every single one since except for one in high winds where I had negative ground speed and got dragged on my back after a soft landing. Before that jump I had only stood up two landings. You should get off the radio asap. When I was on it, I got all f'd up because I was waiting for the instructor to radio in corrections instead of focusing on the task at hand. Once off of it, the focus was on landing safely and things started to improve. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #16 December 11, 2003 i dont know if the oh sh!t method is right for me.."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #17 December 11, 2003 What is your body weight and height. A guy at our DZ is selling a really big rig. It's a very new Mirage. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #18 December 11, 2003 By the way. This game is 90% mental. If you are not feeling confident, then ask your DZ if you can purchase a refreasher coarse pertaining to canopy flight. Once you are confident on the ground, the air is a piece of cake. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #19 December 11, 2003 I appreciate everyones comments to my problem. I think i just need to go out and jump and do my best and what else could i ask for from myself. I think once i am all by myself (no radio) i think i will really be alert and know i have to count on myself."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kitof1976 0 #20 December 11, 2003 Yeah just go out there and do it. For some reason radios were not part of the training where I learned... Scary the first time... but then you learn to trust yourslef and it builds confidence. After ten jumps you definitely have the skill to land safely without a radio! The radio is probably just a psychological help... "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #21 December 11, 2003 i know your right but..... and like a dumbass i downloaded a bunch of movies with crashes and now....DAMN"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #22 December 12, 2003 One bit of advice I've red on here before was to try going up a set of stairs in order to dial your eyes into flair hight. What you do is you go up the stairs to the hight you should be flaring at and look out at your surroundings. Look at how big things are, how big people are and how far away the ground looks. Try and memorise that picture. Then when you next jump you just wait till what you see matches the picture of what you could see from the top of the stairs. When the two pictures match, you're at the right hight to flare. So flair. I've never tried it but it seems logical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #23 December 12, 2003 QuoteI've never tried it but it seems logical. Side note on that. When I started jumping, I knew the ADD would fire at 1,000 feet, but with burble correction (assuming I'm on belly), it may go off at 750 feet. At least that's what I've been told. Anyway, I happened to be in Atlanta for work at the time, and they have a 750-foot hotel there, which you can pay $5 to go to the top of (or free if you're a hotel guest). I paid $5 and spent 4 hours at the top of this building, looking at the ground. Getting an idea of what 750 feet looks like. I guess I wanted to see what it looks like if I ever have a CYPRES fire. You can do the same under canopy, I suppose, but it's only for a few seconds at a time. I have no idea if that's a good way to teach yourself to learn various heights, but it makes sense. I'll follow up on this if I ever have a CYPRES fire (I hope not ) and let you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #24 December 12, 2003 I've done the same thing with skyscrapers in Denver and Chicago. I think its a good way to get a basic judgement on different heights... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airman210 0 #25 December 12, 2003 Here'e some advice... Be careful who you get advice from. A large number of the folks posting here have less then one hundred jumps. Get professional coaching. A truly professional coach would not put you down for attempting to fly and land safely. The money you spend in coaching may just save what you would spend in, jump tickets and E.R. visits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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beej 0 #13 December 10, 2003 ..another big dude to swell the anvil ranks!I used to have the same prob...i burned in on a bad landing once, broke a few things, then for many jumps after that, my jump was ruined by the fear of another bad landing. I resorted to plf's each time for a while..regardless of whether I needed to or not. Eventually, confidence came back, and I started to 'step forward' near touchdown. Just persevere m8..and don't look at your feet. ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #14 December 10, 2003 Big Ed has it. Most people who have flare problems are looking at the ground beneath them. Look at where you're going to land (or in Ed's case the horizon in front of you). It's the same as landing a plane. If you're scared keep jumping; familiarity with being in the air will ease the jitters and help you to focus on how the canopy reacts to your input at flare time. But, until you've got your flare down, PLF baby! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #15 December 11, 2003 You could try the oh sh!t method, it worked for me. It goes a follows in my head: 1) oh sh!t I should flare 2) oh sh!t I better flare 3) oh sh!t flare NOW!!! (flare flare flare) started doing that on jump 11 and have stood up every single one since except for one in high winds where I had negative ground speed and got dragged on my back after a soft landing. Before that jump I had only stood up two landings. You should get off the radio asap. When I was on it, I got all f'd up because I was waiting for the instructor to radio in corrections instead of focusing on the task at hand. Once off of it, the focus was on landing safely and things started to improve. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #16 December 11, 2003 i dont know if the oh sh!t method is right for me.."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #17 December 11, 2003 What is your body weight and height. A guy at our DZ is selling a really big rig. It's a very new Mirage. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #18 December 11, 2003 By the way. This game is 90% mental. If you are not feeling confident, then ask your DZ if you can purchase a refreasher coarse pertaining to canopy flight. Once you are confident on the ground, the air is a piece of cake. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #19 December 11, 2003 I appreciate everyones comments to my problem. I think i just need to go out and jump and do my best and what else could i ask for from myself. I think once i am all by myself (no radio) i think i will really be alert and know i have to count on myself."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitof1976 0 #20 December 11, 2003 Yeah just go out there and do it. For some reason radios were not part of the training where I learned... Scary the first time... but then you learn to trust yourslef and it builds confidence. After ten jumps you definitely have the skill to land safely without a radio! The radio is probably just a psychological help... "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #21 December 11, 2003 i know your right but..... and like a dumbass i downloaded a bunch of movies with crashes and now....DAMN"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #22 December 12, 2003 One bit of advice I've red on here before was to try going up a set of stairs in order to dial your eyes into flair hight. What you do is you go up the stairs to the hight you should be flaring at and look out at your surroundings. Look at how big things are, how big people are and how far away the ground looks. Try and memorise that picture. Then when you next jump you just wait till what you see matches the picture of what you could see from the top of the stairs. When the two pictures match, you're at the right hight to flare. So flair. I've never tried it but it seems logical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #23 December 12, 2003 QuoteI've never tried it but it seems logical. Side note on that. When I started jumping, I knew the ADD would fire at 1,000 feet, but with burble correction (assuming I'm on belly), it may go off at 750 feet. At least that's what I've been told. Anyway, I happened to be in Atlanta for work at the time, and they have a 750-foot hotel there, which you can pay $5 to go to the top of (or free if you're a hotel guest). I paid $5 and spent 4 hours at the top of this building, looking at the ground. Getting an idea of what 750 feet looks like. I guess I wanted to see what it looks like if I ever have a CYPRES fire. You can do the same under canopy, I suppose, but it's only for a few seconds at a time. I have no idea if that's a good way to teach yourself to learn various heights, but it makes sense. I'll follow up on this if I ever have a CYPRES fire (I hope not ) and let you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #24 December 12, 2003 I've done the same thing with skyscrapers in Denver and Chicago. I think its a good way to get a basic judgement on different heights... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airman210 0 #25 December 12, 2003 Here'e some advice... Be careful who you get advice from. A large number of the folks posting here have less then one hundred jumps. Get professional coaching. A truly professional coach would not put you down for attempting to fly and land safely. The money you spend in coaching may just save what you would spend in, jump tickets and E.R. visits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
