TomSpoon 2 #1 February 8, 2004 After jumpingfarmers thread on sabres I thought I'd post some things that were said about this canopy. Listen to yourselves people. “Openings were problematic at first,” “A lot of people complain of hard openings,” “Lots of u guys out there r trying to blame your hard Sabre openings on the pack job...” “I have approximately 1,100 total jumps on sabre 150's and sabre 135's and have experienced a handful of rather brisk openings and 2 of them were excruciating and kept me from jumping for the rest of the day.” “Openings are not so great. In my opinion it would be one thing if it opened hard all the time or soft all the time but it does not. Some openings are good others are not” “Pack carefully, handle the wraped up slider as you would an atomic bomb - as thats what it is! Let the thing slip everywhere then shove in the bag; You will be sorry..” “but about 75% of the time, I get these opening that make me flinch and tighten up every muscle in my body in fear of the opening. Most Sunday nights, when I am driving home, my neck hurts like I was in a car accident, and I have bruises on the insides of my legs that just shouldn't be there... I have tried everything- rolling the nose 4-4, tight rolling the nose together, tight rolling the tail, stowing my lines tight, etc... Nothing helps, don't know what to say about the opening, but I can't wait until I get my PISA Hornet...” “Openings have been brisk, but I've never been slammed (although I lent my rig to a friend and she said she was).” “I've had a very bad opening about every two or three. No matter what I did, tens of rolls everywere or no rolls, spend 1 hour and a half packing it,use the tighest rubber bands ever, it used to hit me.” “I had an instant canopy that knocked the wind from my body. I was in such pain that all I wanted to do was land. After landing discovered the leg straps had grazed the skin from my inner thighs. The next day I was barely able to stand and the black bruising around my thighs meant I looked like I was still wearing my harness.” “I was wacked so hard that I had a compression fracture of T6 and a cracked T12 along with a neck sprain.” “in my 90 jumps on it, I had 3 soft openings. This thing was killing me. I had it relined by PD as soon as I bought it and no matter who's advice I took or what I did, I was constantly seeing stars. I tried rolling the nose tightly all to one side and going to the back, I tried nothing with the nose, I tried splitting the nose, I rolled the tail unbelievably tight and still the openings stunk. After an opening where the slider came down fast enough to rip the rubber stops and put a rip in the slider and wrap itself around my face, so all I saw was the orange slider (nice backdrop for the stars), I got rid of it and bought a spectre 150, and will never look back.” “I have had one extremely hard opening that about broke me in half,” “ ”Most of the openings on Sabres are ok, but it's those slammers! One in every 70 or so jumps, no matter how carefully you've packed, even if you've packed exactly the same as the last 70 pack jobs they can bite. I had one opening on my Sabre 135 that was so hard I thought I had broken a rib! I could give you plenty of examples of experiences friends of mine have had with bad Sabre openings... by and large the openings on the Sabre are fine but when they bite they're nasty!” “Used to fly a Sabre, and the openings where so bad I had no intentions of ever buying another one” “I jumped my 170 Sabre for about 40 times until I realized that my neck could handle about 50 more openings.” “harder than the saber i used to fly and that spanked me on a regular basis.” “This was welcome from the ever surprising Sabre slam that comes when you least expect it. “ “It just comes out of nowhere.Don't do anything different packing,and all the sudden your looking for the train....” “the sabre has a reputation for hard openings” “Any canopy that requires a modification to the slider to tame the openings has more than packing issues” ”i wouldn't wish one on my worst enemy....ok, maybe on my worst enemy, but nobody else...” “it is the lightly loaded sabre's that tend to be more violent openings. “ “I have been whacked a few times on the 150 and 107” “I've had a few harder openings,” “I had one that tried to kill me. Saw a Racer completely ripped apart by one.Met a girl from Virginia that has scars on her head from the halo head thingy after breaking her neck.All on 170s.” "Sabre 1 - reputation for hard openings - not all examples - can easily be tamed “ “My personal opinion is that the Sabre sucks. I can count the number of times I've been whacked under canopy on one hand and I think 4 out of the 5 whackers were under a Sabre.” ”I experienced the hard openings, still 'enjoying' one I had more than a month ago” “I'm getting a bit scared to pull: my poor back.” “best way to make a sabre open softer... Sell it.” “My Sabre 150 used to whack me every once in a while (bruised rib)” “Mine didn't slam me too badly until I had it relined” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #2 February 8, 2004 I think you may want to qualify how many of those comments were made about the original Sabre and how many were made about the Sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #3 February 8, 2004 QuoteI think you may want to qualify how many of those comments were made about the original Sabre and how many were made about the Sabre 2. The sabre is not a sabre 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #4 February 8, 2004 The Sabre is also no longer made...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #5 February 8, 2004 QuoteThe Sabre is also no longer made... But there are quite a few of them floating around on the used market, and probably will be for quite some time. It's also a canopy that PD swore up and down didn't have opening problems. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harksaw 0 #6 February 8, 2004 Quote It's also a canopy that PD swore up and down didn't have opening problems. - Jim Just out of curiosity, do you have a link to where they say this? I'd love a good laugh.__________________________________________________ I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JYorkster 0 #7 February 8, 2004 You left out those of us who said we have never been slammed by a Sabre. And those who have been slammed just a few times probably compare to most other canopies out there. I'm not doubting the folks who have been slammed...maybe it was a quality control issue, but that's hard to believe with PD. If you're looking to buy a used Sabre, ask the owner about the openings, and test jump it. IF it has a hard opening "every 70 or so jumps", it is much more likely that it is a packing error than a design flaw. Again, I have about 500 jumps on my Sabre and have only been slammed once when I packed it with the slider still collapsed. And I don't do anything special when packing--I don't even roll the nose. That's just my experience... Rock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #8 February 8, 2004 Makes no difference. It's all perception. I had two of the first Sabre 150's and put over 500 jumps on both and only one "spanking" when I failed to stow the slider correctly and had "slider sail" on the opening. My fault, not the canopy. Learn to pack and use your equipment. The next question is "Do you and your sabre still beat your wife?" Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #9 February 8, 2004 Read my post from this other thread, since I started packing for myself, I've never been slammed by my sabre. You just have to learn to pack it right! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=898128#898128 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #10 February 8, 2004 Quoteit is much more likely that it is a packing error than a design flaw. How come my packing errors don't slam me on other canopys?Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #11 February 8, 2004 Some canopies are defective, if every opening is exteamly hard, send it in to PD. When I did my demo program to downsize all I jumped were PD F111(300 to 210) then to PD Sabres (190 and down) and I can tell you, the Sabres are a hell of a lot softer opening than the PD F111 canopies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #12 February 8, 2004 On Jump 65 I got a demo 170,every thing was fine.On 102 got my new Sabre 170.By Jump 224 I had learned my lesson.Got rid of it.Once you really get your bell rung you don't you don't ever want to hear it again.159 openings were fine.Three really sucked.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #13 February 8, 2004 So what was different?James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #14 February 8, 2004 I couldn't figure it out.First time just shook it off. Second time I started with the rolling the nose fantasy and after the third one bought a Triathalon.PD claimed packing error,so I figured I should get something that wasn't as sensitive to packing. Go figure,now I have a Cobalt.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jejejelle 0 #15 February 8, 2004 i love my sabre... opening in 400 ft... had one slammer , but might have been because of packjob... slider not fully exposed maybe im just lucky... but even the slammer was not that hard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #16 February 8, 2004 If you do a search, you can find people that have had hard openings on almost every canopy ever designed. Have you tried pulling the slider out in front of the nose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #17 February 8, 2004 Its long gone.Keeping a canopy like that is like not chopping the mess over your head cause your afraid you won't find it.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #18 February 8, 2004 I have a Sabre1 150 and a Saphire2 139... Actually the hardest openings I had were with the Saphire. Broke a rib, saw stars... But I still love it. My Sabre now has a bigger pilot chute, so openings are a bit faster, but I prefer that with the wingsuit.---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #19 February 8, 2004 Dear scottjaco and Jejejeiie, With all due respect. With only about 150 jumps you guys do not have enough experience to comment on a canopy that whacks you once about every 70 jumps or so. From your posts I figure your hard opening rate is just slightly below average. Get back to us after a few hundred more jumps on your sabre and than let us know what you still think. Until then save this link. http://www.neckreference.com/anatomy.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aneblett 0 #20 February 8, 2004 You have opened a can of worms... But I agree with you.. Sabre owners for the most part are in denial. I come from a smaller DZ where for many years most had Sabres or Stilettos. And many still do.. So I have seen them broken (and still do) after a weekend of jumping hobbling back to their vehicles. yet they still say "it's a solid canopy" a solid opening canopy is more like it. I know others as well that have done many jumps and never been slammed. It is these folks that help other sabre owners remain in their state of denial. Some have avoided their slams by lending their canopies to others for the fateful slam openings. Perhaps the Sabre canopies are all possessed? Some like their masters and others don't. Thus the reason the slamming is inconsistent. More realistically I don't think it is a PD Quality control issue but there is some kind of stochastic variable in the design of this canopy. Did I mention I love my Stiletto? AgeS.E.X. party #2 ..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #21 February 8, 2004 Quote Perhaps the Sabre canopies are all possessed? Some like their masters and others don't. Thus the reason the slamming is inconsistent. More realistically I don't think it is a PD Quality control issue but there is some kind of stochastic variable in the design of this canopy. Finally, Aneblett gets to the bottom of this. The sabre opens hard because of a stochastic variable. Now we can finally close this thread. But first. Who's going to tell PD? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #22 February 8, 2004 Stochastic process- An indexed collection of random variables. Thought I'd save you guys from looking it up. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #23 February 9, 2004 So is this also a Sabre2 problem? I have a Sabre2 and have yet to be kicked in the head (knock on wood), but I only have 30 jumps on it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #24 February 9, 2004 A few comments: -Sabres underwent a design change around 93-94 to increase the slider size. The larger slider gives softer openings. I used a Sabre 190 slider on my 93 Sabre 150 with good results (although I don't recommend this.) -Many sabres are old and have old linesets. Old linesets can get out of trim and give hard openings. Often people don't want to spend $150 on a new lineset on a canopy that's only worth $250, so they live with hard openings. Amy just relined a Silhouette 150 and completely changed the opening characteristics. -Canopy openings are a random process; even traditionally well-behaved canopies like Spectres sometimes really whack you. Sabres are on the harder-opening side of the fence, and so the random hard opening events are even harder. -There are a lot of packing and rigging tricks that can slow down openings. If you like everything about a canopy except the opening there are ways to fix it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #25 February 9, 2004 200 + jumps on my Sabre 190. I roll and stuff the nose -- One hard opening to date. Roll and stuff. Can you say SNIVEL? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
