i was shocked

[WrongWay 0]

Dude, aside from bashing you as you have been this whole thread, and with decently good reason in my opinion (yes i said the o word the111!! ), I'm choosing not to take the harsh route, and will do my best to simply try to talk some sense into you. I was a cocky little bastard when I started out. I said a lot of stupid shit, did a lot of stupid shit, and I'm sure a lot of people still think very poorly of me because of it, and looking back, I don't blame them one bit. I started freeflying at jump 17, WAAAAAAAAY too early, completely unsafe, and stupid as fuck. I started jumping a camera at around 300 jumps, though it may seem like a lot to you, I still think that was very early, and I'm sure a lot of people here will agree with me. Vectorboy was not giving you a 200 jump limit, nor was he supporting that 200 jumps was okay for a camera. He was simply saying it's common, but that doesn't make it right. I personally have seen people jump cameras at sub-100 jumps, and that scares the living hell out of me, because I don't want to see my friends hurt or worse. Sure, you say "but I have 200 jumps" but that's not the point here. The point here is being safe in all you do, and to be safe, you need to lose the attitude of "I'm young and invincible". Take it from a guy who's been there and thrown that attitude into people's faces and regrets it now. It may be the camera that kills you, or it may be a canopy thats too fast for you, or a body position too unstable for you, but the thing that leads to all of these things is an unsafe attitude. Though I don't agree with Dave's idea of you quitting the sport over this, I do agree with the way he stated it simply because I believe perhaps he hoped to give you a much needed harsh reality check to wake you up a bit. Just know that you have all the time in the world to learn to fly your ass off, jump cameras, do big ways, jump spaceballs, have sex with twins in freefall, and everything else that comes in the sport. Just be patient, it will come to you if you give it time to.

Just remember this. People who focus on safety and are patient jump for 50 years. People who do not, do not, and it's not because they get bored.

Edited to add: By the way, I found it in poor taste for you to bash on Dave here in public. You should have kept that to PM's. Dave's a good guy who has worked his ass off to get where he is in the sport today, and he's knows what he's talking about. He at least deserves that respect.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[piisfish 135]

Quote

have sex with twins in freefall

with 402 jumps do I have enough jumps ??

I wanted to start video at 200 (which is basically the minimum in Switz)... didn't have my helmet ready by that time.. waited till around 250... no regrets... got good advice, to think about flying safely, not about bringing back some cool footage. Think about my position on openings etc etc ... My instructors and other cameraflyers would then watch what I filmed, try and explain me the good and bad things I did... Still not always filming like I'd like, so sometimes I drop the camera and improve my flying skills to get better results.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[WrongWay 0]

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I drop the camera and improve my flying skills to get better results.

Me too, I rarely jump a camera these days.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[talon1206 0]

Wow! This thred has really helped me make the choice not to start flying camera for a few more jumps (like 100). I deffinatly need better flying skills with only 100 jumps.
And yes the lurkers do take a lot of info and advice from the forums

"Pilots without Maintainers are just pedestrians with cool jackets and sunglasses"

[Hondo 0]

Good choice Talon!

----------
I used to think skydiving would be cheaper then smoking crack!

[Unstable 8]

I've been watching these threads like a hawk, and I want to say thank you to WrongWay for Stating what needed to be said in a Non-condescending and mature manner. Look people, the second you begin to talk down to someone, they stop listening. This little rule just isn't for teenagers or kiddies, if you think about it, it applies to all of us to some extent. If somebody came up to you and the first thing they said was "You know what Pisses me off about you..." (For example only) then you will probably be defensive for the rest of the conversation and not as receptive to good advice.

I see this on these forums ALL THE TIME, and It's sad that I can remember a time when it wasn't like this. If somebody needs advice and or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, say it in a manner that will keep their ears open and help keep them safe.

Just my opinion

This post was edited for grammer only...

=========Shaun ==========

[MULTIS 0]

In Reply To
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Not everyone that skydives is a collage graduate, and no one deserves that kind of response.

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I won't comment on your grammar or spelling, but I will point out that people should be literate LONG before college. I'm pretty sure I'm as literate now as I was at 12 years old.


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celebrate life's impermanence1






People like you we call "pricks"

[scottjaco 0]

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Look people, the second you begin to talk down to someone, they stop listening.

Well said.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I have to agree with Dave. I have well over a thousand jumps with a camera. I didnt put it on untill I had 500. There is no need to rush in this sport, by doing that you will be rushing out of it.

Jack has a great point there - and if you listen to the other camera jumpers, the ones that do it for a living....you will find they all say the same thing. The average jump number tossed about is 500 jumps....I have been told by Tom Sanders, Mike McGowan, Ron Olson, Norm Kent, et all that you should no longer have to think about how to fly in the air because all of your concentration will be on getting the shot. Watch the footage on the "Good Stuff" DVD of Joe Jennings filming Rob Harris....he is flying HARD just to keep the shot.

I am not flying a camera because I know I cannot fly like that and get the shot, so for now I will keep working on my flying skills.

Now, ask yourself and try to come up with a very good reason why you want to add a camera to your jumps already? Do you think you will be safe and be able to handle an emergency with it on? I know off hand of two professional camera jumpers that died due to a snag on their helmet. I've seen at least a dozen other videos of lines, risers, swoop cords, etc getting stuck on the camera.....I think there are some lessons to be learned from these folk.....

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Paige 0]

Your responses would be in better form if they were not so negative and belittling. I think people would heed your advice with a different tone. If you truely care about these people's safety, it needs to be conveyed with a tone of urgency, importance, but a little on the softer side.

That being said, I am not experienced but do agree with what you are saying about rushing into things. I think it would have been more beneficial in a different light and tone.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Unstable 8]

Well, In Kings Defense, I think that about 75% of jumpers out there have been told to Slow down at some point in their career or another.
As for Myself, I to was once going too fast, I did a Mr. Bill with an Instructor when I had around 100 jumps - I'm damn lucky I walked away from it. People Still accuse me of going to fast on some things - You're not alone dude...

=========Shaun ==========

[scottjaco 0]

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I know off hand of two professional camera jumpers that died due to a snag on their helmet.

What about this helmet?.....
http://www.dropzone.com/gear/Detailed/409.html

I've seen a lot of jumpers with these and I don't see any snag points. How is this dangerous?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

I don't know anything about that camera helmet - and I do not know enough about camera helmets to judge the safety level of it. And this is coming from someone that has jumped camera helmets without cameras just to get the feel of them. If I feel my experience level isn't good enough yet, why is yours?

Just because you may see other people with almost the same amount of jumps as you with a camera on their head doesn't mean you should follow their unsafe lead.

You never answered my question. Why do you want to jump with a camera so bad?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[scottjaco 0]

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Why do you want to jump with a camera so bad?

I don't! Couldn't afford it anyway.

I think you mean KingCloud.

[apoil 0]

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The point I am trying to make is This, One of the things that I love so much about this sport is the people. There is no reason for anyone to cut someone down for the way they look, spell or how they fly, We should all do our very best to be helpful every chance we get. And there are ways to get your point across without taking shots at how a person spells.
It's not like anyone could not understand what this person was trying to say.

Read it again.

I wasn't cutting him down at all. I specifically said he's NOT stupid, and NOT illiterate, probably just careless and hasty.

And that can easily give the impression that he brings the same lack of care to his skydiving.

[flynhigh 0]

I seriously couldn't agree more.....I, since I started in the sport wanted to do freestye, get my AFF and fly camera....now after almost 800 jumps I accomplished competing in freestyle and only just 120 jumps ago started flying camera. I'm currently trying to focus on my flying skills for AFF......there is absolutely no need to rush.....you should feel confident (as you can be) on your abilities before you take on something new.....there are so many more variables with a camera on your head....it's scary to think of what 100 jump wonders with very little experience (sorry - no offense meant) would do with a mal and a camera on their head........we all want to skydive for LIFE, right??? Take it slowly....it's all good!

Dare to dream and then make it happen!

[GotAttitude 0]

??? Oh well.

thanks

Say hello to the hand.

[WrongWay 0]

Quote

Quote

I know off hand of two professional camera jumpers that died due to a snag on their helmet.

What about this helmet?.....
http://www.dropzone.com/gear/Detailed/409.html

I've seen a lot of jumpers with these and I don't see any snag points. How is this dangerous?

I'm a dealer for this company and have a lot of experience dealing with the FF2, so I'll go ahead and throw this on here. Yes, the helmet it virtually snagproof. (VIRTUALLY) However, there is never a 100% infalability no matter how good of a design it may be.

Let's say something happened like he had his head turned on opening and a line caught his lens (which unless you're using a diamond .3 or similar, it does stick out a little), that could easily snap his neck. More commonly with less experienced jumpers, let's say he gets too concentrated on what's in front of his camera and not who is flying around him, what happens then?

The helmet is as safe as they can possibly make it, but that doesn't protect the wearer from his own errors or lack of flying skills. I don't care how safe a particular piece of equipment can be on its own, if you're not ready for it, you're not ready for it. It's as simple as that.

I could buy a 79 Velocity and lay it on the ground, even pack it in my rig, and it'd be safe on its own, but as soon as I'm flying under it, I could easily kill myself, not because there's a flaw in the canopy, but because I'm nowhere near good enough of a pilot to fly and land the thing. Enough said.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.