What to do when you're flying backwards

[Synapse 0]

I've read in some threads on here about how bad it is to get pushed backwards by strong head winds, but I've never really gotten any instruction on exactly what to do when that happens. Lets assume that the spot is good and you can land on the DZ... what would be the correct way to land in that circumstance? Logic would say into the wind because if you were to go with the wind your ground speed would be waaay high, but is there something else that should be done? Possible using the front risers to try to penetrate the wind? Note: I know that asking my instructor is the best thing to do, but until I see him again I figured I would get dz.com's opinion.

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[chuteless 1]

I jumped at an air show with a Delta II parawing, which is like to large scoops open at the back of a triangular canopy. The wind was blowing so hard, I had a very hard time turning the canopy as the wind blew in the scoops and kept it going straight. Only when I got low to the ground could I pull a fast turn to prevent a downwind landing..close call.

[Amazon 7]

I jump a fairly large canopy so this might be an issue to me IF the wind speed picked up during the time I got on a load and when I got under canopy. The only time it has happened to me was with an approaching thunderstorm front with some outburst winds from miles away.
In that case I would front riser to increase forward speed a bit and try to land into the wind with a little bit of a crab..ie not directly into the wind. I have a LOT of round jumps and backing up under them was just a fact of life. Its always better to present a bit of an angle to the wind to get a really good PLF... I mean a really good one.. legs under you knees slightly bent and hit ALL the points of contact. The slightly off the windline will give you a far better landing than a typical backing up FEET-BUTT-HEAD ( aka PFL ) that I have seen many many times. I would also make sure my RSL was disconnected so I could chop the main to prevent being dragged if the wind is really severe and you can't collapse it by hauling in a togggle and keep pulling it till the canopy collapses completely as you would normally do and have probably been taught.

The best strategy is like I did at the Byron Boogie when they were limiting the jumpers to C and D licences on Sunday. My D is low enough to KNOW when its time to stay on the ground.

This is what I would do in that situation.. someone else may have a different procedure. You have to know what your canopy is capable of.. and you have to stay on top of changing conditions.

[ZoneRat 0]

Don't jump in high winds.

clicky

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[lewis321 0]

Hey Syn,
You are pretty much on track with your thinking. You should still try to land into the wind. You may not need as much flare however. Front risers may help you penetrate some. The only time I would turn downwind is if you cannot make a safe landing area upwind and are able to make one downwind.
Hope this made sense.

[FrogNog 1]

I would add to also avoid hazards, if you can do nothing else. Even if you can't avoid going backwards, you still have the ability to land more or less backwards, and to the left or right. If you are flying backwards and from way up high you see you might land in an electrical switching substation (or the state pen, or the local Rottweiler farm), I would make some changes to ensure that does not happen.

If you're open insanely high (like a premature opening at 10k), spirals to lose altitude can help you get down quickly to where the wind tends to be lower - nearer the ground - with less arm wear than front risering. (Please remember to stop spiralling well before you hit the ground, and optionally high enough to pick a safe spot to land.)

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[AggieDave 6]

Here ya go, since I do have experience with this. Happened to me with a tandem weekend before last. We went up and after we left, the winds started to really pick up. By the time I was undercanopy, I knew we were screwed.

Step 1: disconnect your RSL.

step 2: try your best to stay upwind of the landing area.

Step 3: Still flare to slow your vertical speed down (flaring just as much as you need to). Have your feet/knees together, let the wind pull you to your butt. Once your butt is on the ground, chop your canopy. Screw trying to fight it, you're already going backwards and will be sliding once your butt hits the ground, so chop it and retreive it in a bit.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Synapse 0]

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Don't jump in high winds.

Good point and I wasn't trying to say this was a situation I plan to put myself into on purpose by jumping in high winds, I just want to be prepared if something changes while we are climbing to altitude. In my other life I'm a pilot and I know that winds can change pretty quickly, so I would rather know how to deal with the situation if it shows up (just as when flying aircraft) rather than just remaining ignorant to it with the hope that weather conditions would never change.


Thanks for all of the advice everyone... knowledge is invaluable in this sport.

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[billvon 2,772]

If you will make the DZ even backing up, then back your canopy into the DZ. You can run downwind if you want, but if you even get over the DZ before you turn back, you won't make it. Keep a lookout behind you, but don't forget that any collision will still come from in front of you, so keep an eye out there too. You can disconnect your RSL if you want - that's a convenience issue, not a safety one. If you are otherwise occupied (like, say, trying to keep your canopy inflated) then don't bother.

Front risers generally don't help much, and make your canopy more susceptible to turbulence. Try them if you want, but release them if anything goes awry. Rear risers or brakes will just make things worse (unless you are far upwind and have to cover a lot of distance.)

Be prepared for turbulence. If your canopy begins to collapse, going to 1/4 to 1/2 brakes will help it reinflate before impact.

Make absolutely sure you are dead into the wind on landing. It will be obvious if you're not. Land with a very minor flare (just enough to slow your descent.) As soon as your feet touch down, turn to face the canopy, start running, and haul in on one brake line. If you fall and are getting dragged, cut away.

[ZoneRat 0]

Sigh... ok, then... well... here's a couple more snippets of info then...

When you land and you find yourself sorta runnin after your canopy, step on your p/c bridal. Once ya got that underfoot that canopy aint draggin ya nowheres. Then sorta walk up the bridal as you gather your lines. It will help the canopy deflate.

Also: Was talking to my instructor over a beer the other night. She mentioned something about the ever popular double front riser in high winds trick...

If you're hangin' on your front risers close to the ground and catch a burble.. you can possibly roll your nose over.. closing your end cells and partially or fully collapsing your canopy.

Here's a good one: Lets say you find yourself not clearing an obstacle you thought you'd clear... In high winds too low to turn. You can go into breaks increasing your backwards drift... essentially backing up from the obstacle rather than turning away from it. Once you backed into a clear place to land, resume full flight.

Really though... as you rightly understand... It's much better to be down here wishin' you were up there than up there wishin' you were down here.

Little fuck-ups become huge fuck-ups way fast in high winds.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[coffeejoe 0]

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When you land and you find yourself sorta runnin after your canopy, step on your p/c bridal. Once ya got that underfoot that canopy aint draggin ya nowheres. Then sorta walk up the bridal as you gather your lines. It will help the canopy deflate.

Ideally you won´t need this, but if you do, it´s extremely effective. The canopy balls up around the bridle attachment point and stops dragging you. I got quite a few brushes being dragged around a runway before I was taught that.

[Synapse 0]

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When you land and you find yourself sorta runnin after your canopy, step on your p/c bridal. Once ya got that underfoot that canopy aint draggin ya nowheres. Then sorta walk up the bridal as you gather your lines. It will help the canopy deflate.

Nice one, sounds like it could even save some trouble on days when the winds aren't really crazy.

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It's much better to be down here wishin' you were up there than up there wishin' you were down here.

Haha... nicely stated. Thanks for the tips Zone!

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[ZoneRat 0]

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It's much better to be down here wishin' you were up there than up there wishin' you were down here.

Haha... nicely stated. Thanks for the tips Zone!

-syn

[Amazon 7]

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As soon as your feet touch down, turn to face the canopy, start running, and haul in on one brake line. If you fall and are getting dragged, cut away.

Now Bill you know I am old and decrepit.. I cant run all that fast..tried that once already this year.... and the wind was not blowing all that hard... Plus if I face the canopy provided I am even on my feet... if it does inflate really hard it will pull me over and I will add even more character to my face that already has far too much character from years of abuse from wind and sun in the mountains and out at sea on my boat

[parachutesj 0]

I've only jumped one time in real high winds. It was about a year ago at a Dropzone close to the beach in Spain. There were about 15 people on the load. I did a two way FF and jumping a Sabre 2 at about 1:1.4. I noticed the strong winds early and stopped working at about 5500 and made it back to the landing area. On final, I backed up a bit and did not flare at all. I figured if I would flare, it would probably push me back fast... So, I would suggest, if you're backing up, don't flare and be prepared for a PLF.
One girl misjudged the winds and couldn't make it back to the DZ, she landed about 300 yards offshore but was rescued later without any injuries - but it was a close call though...

SJ

[councilman24 37]

The REASON people are telling you not to flare all the way, only enough to stop your decent maybe, is that if you do a normal flare, you'll accelerate backwards to the speed of the wind, maybe be held in the air, get dumped on you back eventually and go for a ride. So just enough (read little) flare.

A technique mentioned but not well described is turning your canopy into the ground. If you land, keep ahold of both toggles and try to fight it your liable to get pulled over. If you let go of both toggles a turn to face the canopy it will still be flying and trying to take you for a ride. When your feet are on the ground if you immediately release one toggle, hold the other one down and turn toward the toggle your holding you'll turn the canopy nose down into the ground and be facing the canopy to fight it. The bottom skin catching wind may still me enough to pull you ( a sure sign it was too windy to jump), but it won't be flying anymore.

This was mentioned above but I thought I'd describe it more. I do this routinely on landing to collapse my canopy. But, when you do this all the time the same way the steering line you hold on to twists up. Do remember to take out the twists.

I've got lots of backward landings too. The most embarasing was a demo onto a airport with a 10,000' runway in front of about 200,000 people where we not only back up all the way, but we missed the WHOLE airport, to the side, and landing in a vacant lot with several sets of power lines across it. We made it and Jack (not me) never spotted a demo again.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[ebbesen 0]

I always turn my canopy 180 degrees upon landing, and it is very effective. Just remember NOT to turn your canopy before you have actually stoped flying - that is, feet surely on the ground.
/Ren.

[kuwait_is_hell 0]

I had a nasty experience of landing in high wind at Empuriabrava in 2002. The wind had picked up after we took off but no-one cared to tell the poor suckers in the plane.

I was doing a two-way jump with my instructor. I opened at about 3000 feet and began my downwind leg. I realised the wind was strong as I was being blown backwards at about 1000 feet down to about 500 feet. The wind was gusting. As I came in to land I had no forward speed at all. I was jumping a semi-elliptical 190 main. I was frankly not experienced enough to land in these conditions and in the stress of the situation landed in the same direction as I had on the previous jump. But the wind had veered 45 degrees.

So I didn't land into the wind (mistake no. 1), flared fully (mistake no. 2), hit the ground like a sack of rocks, did PLF (thank God), failed to chop the canopy (mistake no. 3), got airborne again, landed some distance away on my shoulder (heard a snap, my shoulder joint) and got dragged across the runway.

So in the even that the wind does pick up, it is definitely worth knowing what to do. Even better, as someone stated, it's better not to get into the situation in the first place - but still it happens.

I can't thank the staff at Empuria enough for helping me out afterwards, and the British paras who helped me - tie my shoelaces, carry my stuff, get drunk with me, for the next few days!!!

[lazyfrog 0]

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I had a nasty experience of landing in high wind at Empuriabrava in 2002. The wind had picked up after we took off but no-one cared to tell the poor suckers in the plane.

they usually inform in the plane the new jump limits.. maybe the wind picked up while you were in fall ???

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Fumer tue, péter pue
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ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

[EDYDO 0]

In round days, backing up after opening was normal and expected on almost every jump. Holding down of your front risers while facing into the wind will help you penetrate more. Do not however, try to land with front risers, the rate of descent is too high. It is better to land in a flat glide (into the wind) backing up than to land in a steep descent.

Ed

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I've read in some threads on here about how bad it is to get pushed backwards by strong head winds, but I've never really gotten any instruction on exactly what to do when that happens. Lets assume that the spot is good and you can land on the DZ... what would be the correct way to land in that circumstance? Logic would say into the wind because if you were to go with the wind your ground speed would be waaay high, but is there something else that should be done? Possible using the front risers to try to penetrate the wind? Note: I know that asking my instructor is the best thing to do, but until I see him again I figured I would get dz.com's opinion.

-syn

[kuwait_is_hell 0]

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I had a nasty experience of landing in high wind at Empuriabrava in 2002. The wind had picked up after we took off but no-one cared to tell the poor suckers in the plane.

they usually inform in the plane the new jump limits.. maybe the wind picked up while you were in fall ???

This is possible. After my accident the jump limit went from 40 up to several hundred.

[christelsabine 1]

Few weeks ago, in Empuria had same story: went backwards in a permanent strong wind. Imposssible to proceed to any proper landing idea, so already checked for plan B. It finally was plan C.

With my pretty large canopy, I was forced to look for better landing area instead close to power lines, which suddenly were under my feet. In scary gusty winds, I approached small spot, did a PLF as ground was unclear. Never landed so far out! Never was so dirty! When walking towards Mike who picked me up with the car, around us was already landing next load, 7 - 8 jumpers, first jumpers of next plane. They enjoyeed the quick "shuttle service"! . upon arrival at manifest, the jump limit was already at stand-by. Wind situation in Empuria somehow is special.

I several times noticed informations from the pilot to stop exits of students, consolidation jumpers, jumpers below 100.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kuwait_is_hell 0]

Yes, the wind at Empuriabrava is something to be aware of. On my first jump there I landed outside the DZ at the western end of the runway. I think I was last out too.

Make a habit of that - on my first ever AFF jump at Pietermaritzberg I did the same thing.

[Darminion 0]

I had my first AFP jump today and had this happen. After pulling at 5500 I checked checked which direction I was going and I was going upwind, I did my controlability check and then looked down and saw I was in my holding area which was generally over a large radio tower. so I stayed facing into the wind but then realized I was getting no penetration into the wind. This was around 4000. by 2000 I had backtracked about a half mile from where I started. I kept into the wind and knew that I wouldn't make it back to the landing target so i picked an open sugar cane field ( thankfully harvest season is over and it's just empty rows ) to land in. This was around 1000 feet where I finally got below the higher winds and started some forward motion. I flared a little too high and came down kinda hard and did a PLF and I was fine.

On top of these conditions, which I believed changed after we were in freefall. The radio that they strapped to me so they could talk me through canopy control ripped on my chest strap during freefall so I had to do everything on my own.

Once I realized the radio was gone everything from ground school and everything I've been reading here on DZ.com for the past three weeks started clicking in my head about what to do and what not to do.

My instructor seemed quite proud of how I handled it.

Anvile Brother #59

[Synapse 0]

Hell yeah, good job man. I've read on here about a lot of students getting into similar situations and ending up with broken bones. Its good to hear that your training helped you make the best out of a bad situation. I wonder if the radio landed in someone's windshield?!

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin