mjosparky 3 #1 July 15, 2003 This is an email I received for a friend tonight. Sparky Heads up guys, had my reserve opened this weekend for a re-pack and it's full of holes....Looks like someone did some probing with a long sharp diamond shaped thing, small ones, like a number 7 needle, it's got like 200 holes in it, with most of'em in the top three center cells and through the rib/cell dividers and not as many in the bottom skin. Most will close up when you pull around on the material, but quite a few had snagged going in or coming out. They all line up with the packing creases so it had to be done when it was packed and at an angle, looks like they went down through the reserve risers as they used what looks like a screw driver to jab down in there to poke around. There are no holes in the container flaps. The reserve riser tabs/protector covers (it's a javelin) have a screw driver looking gouge on one side. The rigger hadn't looked at the free bag yet when we talked this morning, he had taken it to show it to a couple other riggers as he'd never seen anything like it, he's going to check it when he gets back home for whats it's worth., it would have worked no problem but my guy wouldn't repack it like that of course. It'll probably need three cells and ribs replaced, it's a 92 mfg date so I don't know if it'll be worth it. I had it completley gone through just before we went to Georgia, I had my cypres serviced and new batties put in and it was fine, so... there have been a couple airports we've gone through since then. Those are the only times my rig has ever been out of my sight. Just thought you'd like to know. Guess it'll be a carry on from now on........So Heads Up, the collective opinion by 4 different riggers that have looked at it is must have been airport security....Got a new PD160R from Ralph coming UPS, $875.00......My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #2 July 15, 2003 scary that they would do that. even scarier that they'll do it without letting the owner know... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #3 July 15, 2003 Its scary, very scary, to think that if if they suspect a package/device, they go blindly poking about with a needle, screwdriver, etc..... Makes a good case for getting hard luggage to ship your rig if it has to go in the hold.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #4 July 15, 2003 QuoteIts scary, very scary, to think that if if they suspect a package/device, they go blindly poking about with a needle, screwdriver, etc..... Makes a good case for getting hard luggage to ship your rig if it has to go in the hold. His rig was in hard luggage, they just opened it! SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #5 July 15, 2003 QuoteMakes a good case for getting hard luggage to ship your rig if it has to go in the hold. Not really, they're still going to open the hard case same as they would to unzip a soft side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #6 July 15, 2003 Has he reported it to USPA? They are supposed to be in touch with TSA on issues like this.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #7 July 15, 2003 QuoteHas he reported it to USPA? They are supposed to be in touch with TSA on issues like this. like NOW! that is insanely assine, the phrase 'reckless endangerment' comes to mind, if it were me and i could pin it down more firmly as to where it could have happened you can bet i'd have a good lawyer if any airports are doing this as part of regular parachute inspections somebody better be on it...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cwn 0 #8 July 15, 2003 There is claim form for damaged items and a hot line (1-866-289-9673) on the TSA web site. http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=87&content=564 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #9 July 15, 2003 Just hung up after waiting 17 minutes to talk to someone at TSA. Bottem line (from this person) was that sport parachutes aren't approaved or disapproved. It's up to the screener at the departure airport as to if you can check or carry on your sport parachute. Once you check it, if it's damaged you can file a claim but they have the right to do whatever they want to "check" the rig. My local airport (Tallahasse Fla) says "nope" no carry on. Three others say "okay" jeez I just want to skydiveKevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #10 July 15, 2003 QuoteBottem line (from this person) was that sport parachutes aren't approaved or disapproved. That's a nice non-answer you got there. If that's really the case, then the USPA needs to continue working with the TSA to see to it that our expensive, legitimate, and life saving equipment is not tampered with, or in this case, destroyed. What are the FAA regulations about tampering with a container sealed by an FAA certified rigger? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #11 July 15, 2003 Your tax dollars at work. You're not supposed to be skydiving anyway, you're supposed to be sitting home following instructions on your TV for what to buy, who to vote for, and which of your kids you will send to the next war. They can do whatever you can't stop them from doing. You might be able to stop them if you'd carry your rig with you. Or ship it FED EX or UPS insured. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #12 July 15, 2003 Wow. Another non-answer! I realize it's my tax dollars at work, and as a tax payer I'll vote against the TSA everytime; I've also let my representatives know how I feel. Have you? As a skydiver, I have the USPA to represent me to the TSA. I would expect that the USPA should be able to effect some change at the TSA. I hope that the USPA can get parachute rigs specifically mentioned in the TSA book as a 'hands off' and 'harmless' item. USPA, are you listening? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #13 July 15, 2003 Jims right, This is one case where the USPA should be getting something DONE. The decision to allow or not allow a sport parachute should not be left in the hands of each screener, at each airport. If they must be checked than a "standard" for inspection should be written. The TSA employee I spoke with was very typical. Quote the rule (or non-rule). She did offer that if my rig was damaged I could file a claim. When I told her that getting killed due to someone "checking" my rig would really ruin my trip she just sat there. USAP what are you doing for us??Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #14 July 15, 2003 QuoteThere is claim form for damaged items and a hot line (1-866-289-9673) on the TSA web site. http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=87&content=564 That's not really the point, is it? What if he'd had a reserve ride and it malfunctioned due to this government-sanctioned damage?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #15 July 16, 2003 Having traveled from the Mid-West to FL twice since the first of the year, one to Tampa and one to Datona. I called both airports and the TSA offices. Arrived early and contacted the supervisor at both departure airports. I explained my equipment and my concerns and educated both on what they were looking at. I had no problem. Most TSA employees are generally good people who just don't understand. Why waste your time posting your complaints here? CAll USPA with Specifics not general complaints and help them help us! Call your Senator, Representative, and the TSA General office. Put your efforts into something positive! It is real easy to sit down on a key board and complain........ Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
julius 0 #16 July 16, 2003 My wife and I have flown to Arizona, Z-Hills, and CrossKeys in the last few months. We carried our rigs onboard everytime. We were asked about her weights, but the parachutes were a non-issue. Parachutes are NOT on the list of items that cannot be carried onboard. For safety sake and presence of mind CARRY YOUR RIGS ONBOARD! It is not illegal! Your life is at stake here! The last Parachitist and Skydiving mags have a horror story about two rigs that were checked as baggage. We flew out of SFO, TPA, PHX, and PHL with no problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #17 July 16, 2003 My purpose was not to complain, but to inform. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #18 July 16, 2003 QuoteParachutes are NOT on the list of items that cannot be carried onboard. You're right, but until they are on the list of items that CAN be carried on board we're going to experience trouble from misinformed security staff. I want my representatives at the USPA to see to it that skydiving gear is specifically allowed as carry on. I want my USPA representatives to see to it that the TSA is informed about skydiving gear and the potential impact of one of their invasive inspections. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WFFC 1 #19 July 16, 2003 QuoteParachutes are NOT on the list of items that cannot be carried onboard. OK...Only to interject this. My uncle is a TSA guy in a moderately busy airport in the midwest. In their office is an additional handwritten list of banned items. Sport parachutes are one of the handwritten items. I've personally been through PIA, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Denver, St Louis among a few others without issue this year. The rules are different at each airport so it's a crap shoot whether you'll have a problem or not. USPA needs to keep working with the TSA to get some reasonable expectations in place. Rule #1 though is not to lose your cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JamesNahikian 0 #20 July 16, 2003 If you're referring to Midway or O'Hare, they didn't trouble me, and I've flown with my gear through both airports during the past 60 days. (LAX and Denver too, for that matter.) D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WFFC 1 #21 July 16, 2003 QuoteIf you're referring to Midway or O'Hare, they didn't trouble me, and I've flown with my gear through both airports during the past 60 days. (LAX and Denver too, for that matter.) D. James Nahikian CHICAGO OK fine...Twist my arm - Louisville, KY...I've been through ORD, but not Midway too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sducoach 0 #22 July 16, 2003 Not directed at you dude, sorry. Just posted off yours as it was the end of the thread when I logged on. You have my apology. It is just such a waste to carry on these kind of threads. I simply wish people would put the efforts into doing something instead of complaining about what someone else is doing. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #23 July 16, 2003 actually it isnt a waste at all. it adds continued visibility to a growing problem and lets people vent about related experiences. now if this is all your doing and you expect it to change then your SOL...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #24 July 16, 2003 FYI...ran across this info in an article linked in another thread: QuoteAccording to the TSA, FAA, and Homeland Security websites and guidebooks that they allow the public to view, no one is allowed to inspect your baggage without you being present in the event that you ask to be present. Many airports will not allow you to be present unless you ask. Many aren't set up with areas that you can watch the process. Asking to be present at airports that don't provide areas for you to be present, simply tells the TSA, "Hey, this person wants to be trouble." Tough. Be there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakyrat 1 #25 July 17, 2003 Furst Off Louisville KY is served by Southwest Airlines, an airline that worked very hard in getting the Cypres declared as non-dangerous goods by the DOT and specifically addrsses this in their baggage policy. What you all need to do is go to the their counter during a non-busy time and ask for a supervisor. Get him to print out a copy of this and take it to the TSA Security Director for Louisville. A pencilled in policy is about as worthless as a pencil packed reserve. TSA was already suppose to have guidelines in place for skydiving gear it seems like all the work that USPA did with them has resulted in a sporadic eduacation program where some airports know about gear and others don't or just don't care to be educated. I personally stood my ground very politely in Palm Springs last January, got through with my rig and sent a large letter to the TSA Director for that airport with support documents from Cypres and USPA and he wrote back and said that he would make sure his screener staff got the mesaage. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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mjosparky 3 #17 July 16, 2003 My purpose was not to complain, but to inform. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #18 July 16, 2003 QuoteParachutes are NOT on the list of items that cannot be carried onboard. You're right, but until they are on the list of items that CAN be carried on board we're going to experience trouble from misinformed security staff. I want my representatives at the USPA to see to it that skydiving gear is specifically allowed as carry on. I want my USPA representatives to see to it that the TSA is informed about skydiving gear and the potential impact of one of their invasive inspections. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #19 July 16, 2003 QuoteParachutes are NOT on the list of items that cannot be carried onboard. OK...Only to interject this. My uncle is a TSA guy in a moderately busy airport in the midwest. In their office is an additional handwritten list of banned items. Sport parachutes are one of the handwritten items. I've personally been through PIA, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Denver, St Louis among a few others without issue this year. The rules are different at each airport so it's a crap shoot whether you'll have a problem or not. USPA needs to keep working with the TSA to get some reasonable expectations in place. Rule #1 though is not to lose your cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamesNahikian 0 #20 July 16, 2003 If you're referring to Midway or O'Hare, they didn't trouble me, and I've flown with my gear through both airports during the past 60 days. (LAX and Denver too, for that matter.) D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #21 July 16, 2003 QuoteIf you're referring to Midway or O'Hare, they didn't trouble me, and I've flown with my gear through both airports during the past 60 days. (LAX and Denver too, for that matter.) D. James Nahikian CHICAGO OK fine...Twist my arm - Louisville, KY...I've been through ORD, but not Midway too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #22 July 16, 2003 Not directed at you dude, sorry. Just posted off yours as it was the end of the thread when I logged on. You have my apology. It is just such a waste to carry on these kind of threads. I simply wish people would put the efforts into doing something instead of complaining about what someone else is doing. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #23 July 16, 2003 actually it isnt a waste at all. it adds continued visibility to a growing problem and lets people vent about related experiences. now if this is all your doing and you expect it to change then your SOL...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 July 16, 2003 FYI...ran across this info in an article linked in another thread: QuoteAccording to the TSA, FAA, and Homeland Security websites and guidebooks that they allow the public to view, no one is allowed to inspect your baggage without you being present in the event that you ask to be present. Many airports will not allow you to be present unless you ask. Many aren't set up with areas that you can watch the process. Asking to be present at airports that don't provide areas for you to be present, simply tells the TSA, "Hey, this person wants to be trouble." Tough. Be there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #25 July 17, 2003 Furst Off Louisville KY is served by Southwest Airlines, an airline that worked very hard in getting the Cypres declared as non-dangerous goods by the DOT and specifically addrsses this in their baggage policy. What you all need to do is go to the their counter during a non-busy time and ask for a supervisor. Get him to print out a copy of this and take it to the TSA Security Director for Louisville. A pencilled in policy is about as worthless as a pencil packed reserve. TSA was already suppose to have guidelines in place for skydiving gear it seems like all the work that USPA did with them has resulted in a sporadic eduacation program where some airports know about gear and others don't or just don't care to be educated. I personally stood my ground very politely in Palm Springs last January, got through with my rig and sent a large letter to the TSA Director for that airport with support documents from Cypres and USPA and he wrote back and said that he would make sure his screener staff got the mesaage. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
