Contradiction for money?

[Praetorian 1]

I’ve noticed that we (skydiving as a whole) talk about the risks among ourselves, show some distain for jumpers who claim skydiving is “safe” always strive to make the sport safer. We each accept that there are risks, and we discuss these freely to reduce them …
EXCEPT
When it comes to Tandems.. I can’t count the number of times I’ve overheard 1st time jumpers talking about how safe it was, how they were convinced (by the training/jumpmaster) despite the waiver, (which most pay only slightly more attention to then paying for their jump) that it was as safe as riding a bicycle. Is this something people do intentionally? Is it a conflict of interest? Tandems keep jump prices low; keep the planes flying etc .. or is it about introducing people to the sport? Getting our friends/family to understand what we do? … or am I wrong and in most cases first time tandem jumpers are by and large well informed about the risks both before and after their jump??

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[JohnMitchell 14]

I never tell them it's as safe as riding a bicycle. If they ask, I tell them I can't guarantee either parachute will open. There are a lot of risks, and we work hard to manage those risks. Tandems rarely lose track of altitude, rarely collide while freeflying or under canopy, and don't do a lot of stupid low hook turns. This eliminates about 90% of the stupid stuff that kills fun jumpers. I don't know for sure, but it may be safer than regular skydiving. Anyone got the stats for that? I triple check my gear every jump, and have a hundred dollar bill waiting for anyone who ever catches me on the plane with my chest strap not done up right.

Some people say we are advertising Disneyland but delivering Death Valley. I say we're pretty up front about the fact that you can get killed. The passengers that want say "it's sooo safe", well, I let them tell themselves whatever they want until they take the FJC.

[TALONSKY 0]

Most first time tandem students are scared. It is the tandem instructors job to help them through being scared and get them into the air safely. I do not personally use the term skydiving is safer than " " but I do let them know it is safe. I also let them know in my 917 skydives I have never use my reserve and have always landed safely. If the student is more calm at exit it makes for an overall easier skydive
Kirk

[AggieDave 6]

I never tell my students that it is "safe" or that "we'll be fine" or anything else along those lines.

I do tell them that at my DZ we do guaruntee a landing with every single jump...

Ok, that's a joke I use, but I do tell the ones that say its "safe" that it's not safe, anything can happen and explain it to them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Flyer2Diver 0]

Tandem jumps are statistically safer than sport jumps.

reference: Tom Buchanan's excellent article on skydiving risk.

_______________________________
30005KT 10SM SKC 23/05 A3006

[billvon 2,400]

>I can’t count the number of times I’ve overheard 1st time jumpers talking about how safe it was . . .

I'm a tandem master and AFF-I, and I never say that. When I start off an FJC or a tandem briefing, I usually start with "Skydiving is a dangerous sport. You can get hurt and you can even get killed. To help make sure that doesn't happen, you have to listen as I go over X, Y and Z." It both lets them know it's dangerous and reminds them they have to listen. (although it does annoy some DZO's when I say that . . .)

[Morcyk 0]

I wouldn't say that I felt necessarily safe on my tandems, but it was rather comforting to know there was someone back there that knew what they were doing. One thing I didn't like though, is that while they taught us about body position and when to pull the cord before the first jump, what if something happened to the instructor (black out or whatever) and there was a mal? I would have no idea what to do. I know it would be a very rare instance to have both happen at the same time, but I still would have preferred to know more about this stuff just in case.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

Tandem jumps are statistically safer than sport jumps.

reference: Tom Buchanan's excellent article on skydiving risk.

Thanks for the link. Those are exactly the kind of stats I was looking for. Looks like tandems aren't so bad after all.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

I never tell my students that it is "safe" or that "we'll be fine" or anything else along those lines.

I do tell them that at my DZ we do guaruntee a landing with every single jump...

Ok, that's a joke I use, but I do tell the ones that say its "safe" that it's not safe, anything can happen and explain it to them.

But is it the safest area of skydiving?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[BETO74 0]

I agree with you thats what you should say to all passangers.
First, the passanger is looking for an adrenalin rush, why sugar coat?.
second, everybodys first jump is a miles stone, whether you make one jump or 10,000 jumps after that, in that jump was when you realize what you where capable of, if the tandem master minimazes the importance or risk factor you're both taking we/you are also minimizing that sense of acomplishement the passanger will get after the jump.

Just my two cts

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[Auryn 0]

Quote

I wouldn't say that I felt necessarily safe on my tandems, but it was rather comforting to know there was someone back there that knew what they were doing. One thing I didn't like though, is that while they taught us about body position and when to pull the cord before the first jump, what if something happened to the instructor (black out or whatever) and there was a mal? I would have no idea what to do. I know it would be a very rare instance to have both happen at the same time, but I still would have preferred to know more about this stuff just in case.

That's exactly what the cypres is there for. If the extremely rare scenario of an instructor blacking out right after a partial main mal that slows you down below cypres speed, then it just really is not your day. As far as I know this has never happened.

Tandem cypres' are also built specifically for tandems and have separate specifications.

Blue Ones

[davelepka 4]

Your jumps would be alot safer if you did the same thing every time. From gear up, to the plane ride, gear checks, in freefall, and under canopy, TM's have a routine they repeat over and over again.

How often do you check your handles in freefall? TM's are supposed to do it every jump.

What is your WL, and how many jumps do you have? TM's are always jumping at a lower WL (around 1 to 1 or so) and have at least 500 jumps, most of them with experience on sport canopies at higher WL's.

How high do you pull? TM's are up above 5k. That gives them extra time to deal with problems (on lightly loaded canopies), and extra alt. to help minnimize off field landings, even after a cutaway.

If sport jumpers worked within the same confines as a TM with regards to the above points, skydiving would be safer.

[StevePhelps 0]

As the vidiot, I tell the tandem student, "Remember, whatever happens to you two, I'll be okay!"