Specific exit order question

[skydivegirl 0]

I know there are a million exit order threads but I did a search & couldn't find a specific answer to this question.

Anyhoo, say you have a load with a 4-way rw, 4-way freefly, a solo bellyfly pulling at 4,500, and tandem.

Where would you put the solo bellyflier in relation to the freefliers?

On one hand:
4-way RW
solo bellyfly (pulling at 4,500)
4-way freefly
tandem

~the bellyflier is the smallest bellyflier group and should exit before the freefliers. If you have horizontal separation, it shouldn't matter what the pull altitude is.

On the other hand:
4-way RW
4-way freefly
solo bellyfly (pulling at 4,500)
tandem

~The solo is pulling higher than the freefliers. Plus, the solo belly can be more aware of his surroundings and would know if he is getting too close to another group.

Which way is better & why?

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[piisfish 136]

Quote

On one hand:
4-way RW
solo bellyfly (pulling at 4,500)
4-way freefly
tandem
On the other hand:
4-way RW
solo bellyfly (pulling at 4,500)
4-way freefly
tandem

that seems the same to me...
I would say the solo belly exits last (before the tandem though)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[karenmeal 0]

Umm.. both hands are the same option..

I would put the 4 way belly fly, freefly, solo and then the tandem. The order of 4 way belly before 4 way freefly is pretty accepted. Also, the freefliers are probably going to have a much higher wingloading than the solo belly guy who is pulling high. Rather have that guy out of the way and less of an obstacle. Also.. in my experiences belly fliers seem to generally pull a bit lower than freefliers, so its a good order for that reason too.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[skydivegirl 0]

Quote

that seems the same to me...

D'oh!!! Fixed

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[Adriandavies 0]

This will stick the cat among the pigeons.

In the UK FF generally go first meaning in your example FF 4 way, belly 4 way, solo, then tandem. There are plenty of arguments on these pages about FF v belly and which order to exit.

[skydivegirl 0]

At my home dz, belly exits before FF.

My question is specifically about where the higher pulling solo bellyflier goes.

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I would prefer to put the solo belly 4500' high puller out before the freefliers as the solo belly flier is still going to drift more horizontally than the freefliers. And it's my understanding that the best seperation is horizontal, not vertical.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Ron 7]

4 way RW
4 way freefly
Solo pulling high.
Tandem.

The 4way RW will drift more and GAIN seperation from the 4way FF (provided that the jumprun is not downwind).

The reason I say the FF before the Solo RW...
The 4way FF will fall away from the Solo and be at pull altitude way before the solo guy. I would have the solo guy give a few extra seconds to ensure Horizontal seperation.

The tandem should be last. they are pulling the highest.

You have to take into account pull altitudes. Lowest pullers should go first, highest last.

Seperation between groups can be done by just waiting longer in the door between groups.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,476]

To me it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. The rule we use in normal jump runs is freeflyers out first. If someone is pulling _significantly_ higher than everyone else he gets moved back. If the average pull altitude at this DZ was 2000 feet and the new jumper was pulling at 4500 I'd put him out last. This runs the risk of him having a total and taking 15 seconds to deal with it (thus putting him in the middle of the previous group) but under normal conditions provides better separation. This is the same logic we use with AFF and tandems out last.

If average pull altitudes at this DZ are 3500+ then I'd put him in the RW groups. 1000 feet isn't enough vertical separation to ensure safety; with sniveling canopys and inaccurate altimeters, you could easily lose that 1000 feet.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

The 4way FF will fall away from the Solo and be at pull altitude way before the solo guy.

This is fine and dandy is everything goes as it's supposed to. But what happens if the solo belly high puller has a malfunction and cuts away. If the solo has drifted, there's the potential that they could fall right in on top of these opened FF canopies.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Ron 7]

Quote

This is fine and dandy is everything goes as it's supposed to. But what happens if the solo belly high puller has a malfunction and cuts away.

With malfuntion rates at around 1 in 600 its a small chance that the guy will drift over AND have a mal..It COULD happen.
Which is why.......

Quote

If the solo has drifted, there's the potential that they could fall right in on top of these opened FF canopies.

Which is why I said to give the FF group more time before the solo leaves. If I was going to give 5 seconds after following a Flat group..I give 7-8 if I follow a FF group. He is pulling higher so he can afford to wait a few extra seconds...And the Tandem will be pulling even higher still.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

Quote

This is fine and dandy is everything goes as it's supposed to. But what happens if the solo belly high puller has a malfunction and cuts away.

With malfuntion rates at around 1 in 600 its a small chance that the guy will drift over AND have a mal..It COULD happen.
Which is why.......

Quote

If the solo has drifted, there's the potential that they could fall right in on top of these opened FF canopies.

Which is why I said to give the FF group more time before the solo leaves. If I was going to give 5 seconds after following a Flat group..I give 7-8 if I follow a FF group. He is pulling higher so he can afford to wait a few extra seconds...And the Tandem will be pulling even higher still.

8 isn't enough if there's any headwind.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.