Vigil...

[skymedic 0]

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Perhaps the Vigil's self test is much more complete than the Cypres', but I don't think so.

why dont you think so? Just curious.

know something that we dont?? or is that more of a guestimate? or uneducated guess?

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[hipgnosis 0]

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Perhaps the Vigil's self test is much more complete than the Cypres', but I don't think so.

why dont you think so? Just curious.

A self test tests the components at whatever conditions exist when the unit turns on. At the factory they can test for that and for all the different conditions that can exist in it's operational parameters (min/max temperature and humidity, RF exposure, varying power levels from the battery, etc.)


Bill

[sundevil777 99]

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Perhaps the Vigil's self test is much more complete than the Cypres', but I don't think so.

why dont you think so? Just curious.

know something that we dont?? or is that more of a guestimate? or uneducated guess?

It is my uneducated guess that the self test cannot simulate a jump (simulate the pressures on the transducer) to test the entire system, it just is a check of the health of the electronics.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[madeyebiohazard 0]

I havn't been to the new web site yet BUT I have personally seen VIGIl in action at the WFFC when it fired prematurly on a friends rig leaving him with two canopies out. Also I don't need anything hanging out of my rig the vVigil system to me is nothing more than a FXC on Crack. My life is worth any amount of money and I believe I will go with a company that is tested and proven as well as consciences enough to place mandetory maintance checks on there equipment. why wait for a couple of skydivers to burn in before you decide that you made a mistake. I will stick with cypress remeber if your going to be dumb you have to be tough

You must be fast cause you were flying when I past you

[Hooknswoop 19]

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BUT I have personally seen VIGIl in action at the WFFC when it fired prematurly on a friends rig leaving him with two canopies out.

At what altitude did your friend deploy his main? How much altitude does it normally take for your friends main to open?

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Also I don't need anything hanging out of my rig the vVigil system to me is nothing more than a FXC on Crack

Sounds like you are thinking of an Astra, not a Vigil. The Astra is made by FXC and has the control head on the outside of the rigs. The Vigil isn't made by FXC and is completely internal, like a Cypres.

Derek

[madeyebiohazard 0]

Roger your rite i did cofuse the mounting sytem. deployed at 3000 in the saddle at 2200 reserved fired at 1800 main was stable flight when AAD fired

You must be fast cause you were flying when I past you

[John4455 0]

So which one was it, Vigil or Astra?

How do ya like it Johnny?

[kimgriffin 0]

Yes, are you speaking of Vigil or FXC? As someone stated above, if the AAD was mounted on the outside of the rig, it was NOT a Vigil. The Vigil is internal and fits in to a Cypres set up.

I was at this year's WFFC with a Vigil booth and think I would have heard if there was a Vigil fire.

Secondly, no matter the AAD type, be careful in stating that 2 canopies out means a misfire. There may be another reason that the AAD fired that you are not aware of.

Whether you're speaking of FXC or the Vigil, you might want to make sure your facts are clear and 100% certain before you go slamming a company on a public forum.

Things at Vigil have been going very well actually.

Thanks,
Kim Griffin
Vigil USA
DeLand Florida

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I am going to concur with Kim on this one. Unless you have ALL of the facts, you seriously need to refrain from posting derogatory information about gear; particularly lifesaving devices.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

[madeyebiohazard 0]

well excuse me yes your rite as far as the the differance between astra and vigil mounting and yes I am human and did make a mistake but that doesn't change the facts of the premature deployment price is not always everything on this matter performance in my opion is more important and the fact that vigil does a self test is irrelevant sevral AAD do self test when turned on. I have witnessed FXC, VIGIl, and astra's fire prematurely. I have not seen or heard of this in ref. to cypress further more I have been present when the airborne test board tested cypress for military use on sport rigs within the military. the performance of the cypress was levels above any other AAD I find in such a unforgiving sport that I will will learn from past expierance of other and not be the one who made it into a magazine do to be cheap

You must be fast cause you were flying when I past you

[Hooknswoop 19]

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and did make a mistake but that doesn't change the facts

It does change the facts that you said a Vigil Misfired when it wasn't a Vigil, it was an Astra. A little research before posting would have prevented the mnistake. Instead you pulled the trigger without aiming.

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I have not seen or heard of this in ref. to cypress

Again, some research would educate you. Cypres's had the same electrostatic issues as the Vigil did when it was new. The reason the Vigil got hammered for it so bad is the lesson had already been learned and then re-learned on the Vigil.

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further more I have been present when the airborne test board tested cypress for military use on sport rigs within the military. the performance of the cypress was levels above any other AAD

I don't doubt that when the Cypres was tested by the military (I'm guessing circa 1991-1992), it was the best AAD on the market. Now it has a competitor. Time will tell which is the best unit.

To make such simple mistakes shows you do't care enough to do a little research. If you want to 'learn from past experiences of others', then you should do the research, ask questions, etc, and do exactly that, learn from past experiences. So far, it is obvious you are not doing that.

Derek

[PhreeZone 15]

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I don't doubt that when the Cypres was tested by the military (I'm guessing circa 1991-1992), it was the best AAD on the market.

I know of military testing beyond then (late 90's/early '00's) that had them using the Cypres from a pressurised airplane that they depressurised for the jump at altitude. The Military Cypres has functionality well beyond those on the civilian cypres. My understanding is since they need dual pins cutters their cutters are pair match tested so specs above the civilian level.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Scott, who was it that had the premature at Rantoul? Was it this year or last? Was it one of my dad's group? I don't know anyone at Skydive Opelika that jumps a Vigil so that's the reason I am asking.

Chuck

[Hooknswoop 19]

My point is, at the time, it wasn't tested against anything else in it's class, like the Vigil. Scott was saying that it is the best because it was the best when the Army tested it. Now there is a new competetor.

Chucky- I think he sort of admitted he was confused about what type of AAD had the misfire. It was an Astra.

Derek

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I worked in the S3 shop of the Battalion that "owns" the MFF school in Yuma for my last five years in the Army. I was there when everyone was jumping the FF2 timer, then for the disastrous (financially and comon-sensically) move to the AR2. I was there for the moving around of the pocket on the MC4/5 rigs because of premature deployments and misfires of that unit, and I was there when the Navy told the rest of the military to "screw you" and ditched the AR2 and installed military CYPRES's in their rigs. I was there when the Army moved the unit from the reserve to the main and sometimes back to the reserve. I sat in on most of the meetings (after all the AR2 misfirings) where everyone and their brother begged to ditch the AR2 contract and just buy the military CYPRES.

It takes forever for a product to pass testing and get purchased and then ultimately put into use in the military. Back when the replacement for the FF2 was sought, there simply was no such a thing as a military CYPRES. Still, by the time we had to retrofit every single rig in the military inventory with AR2's, the CYPRES had long since proved itself as the best thing on the market (at the time). Too bad; we had already bought AR2's. Oddly, even though the miltary CYPRES had already been put to use by more than a couple of military units, the airborne and special operations test board still had to "test" the unit before it could be put to use in anything other than an instructor rig (without a waiver anyway). Such is the nature of the military logistics procurement system.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

[sundevil777 99]

What is an AR2 and FF2?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[madeyebiohazard 0]

well once again i see that instead off acknowledging that I did recant the mistake made in ref to the mounting of the device you took a purely personal stance as if my statements were a personal attack. the fact is the equipment i was refering to was a vigil, in your own statment you proved my post, if a company such as vigil can't do the simple things like eleminate flaws that have allready been identified it tells me that there testing and development program is flawed and as a company they would rather rush an inferior product to the market. this is so prevelant the first 4 post on this forum refer to the disfunction of there web sight come on were is the quality control you want people to trust a company who is using micro chip technology that is supposed to never need maintance when the same company can't even do something monumentally simpler like establish a functioning web page. Lets not forget this is an open forum that people use to learn of other peoples' opions/expierances in this sport and the gear used. I am an independant skydiver and I don't use this sight to pimp my sponsor's it's amazing how many times I have seen someone tell a skydiver how awsome some new equipment is only to find out later that they are getting paid to make these comments further more once the sponsorship runs out the same individual is meraculessly not flying that inferior equipment that he/she stuck other people with. in closing there is a big differance between negative performance and derogatory statements don't lose you perspective if an eye witness account to the failure of a peice of equipment upsets some people then maybe they shuold look for a new sponsor

You must be fast cause you were flying when I past you

[madeyebiohazard 0]

No it was not someone from your dad's drop zone . it was a friend of mine from florida.

You must be fast cause you were flying when I past you

[Hooknswoop 19]

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well once again i see that instead off acknowledging that I did recant the mistake made in ref to the mounting of the device you took a purely personal stance as if my statements were a personal attack.

Not at all. You made a big deal of learning from others mistakes and made one yourself because you didn't do exactly what you said you are doing, research.

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the fact is the equipment i was refering to was a vigil, in your own statment you proved my post, if a company such as vigil can't do the simple things like eleminate flaws that have allready been identified it tells me that there testing and development program is flawed and as a company they would rather rush an inferior product to the market. this is so prevelant the first 4 post on this forum refer to the disfunction of there web sight come on were is the quality control you want people to trust a company who is using micro chip technology that is supposed to never need maintance when the same company can't even do something monumentally simpler like establish a functioning web page.

I agree there should have never been a static electricity problem with the Vigil. I personally wouldn't jump one. I think they have a ways to go to prove themselves against a proven AAD. But it seems as though they have fixed the problem and there haven't been any problems with them for awhile, which is encouraging.

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Lets not forget this is an open forum that people use to learn of other peoples' opions/expierances in this sport and the gear used. I am an independant skydiver and I don't use this sight to pimp my sponsor's it's amazing how many times I have seen someone tell a skydiver how awsome some new equipment is only to find out later that they are getting paid to make these comments further more once the sponsorship runs out the same individual is meraculessly not flying that inferior equipment that he/she stuck other people with.

I am not sponsored by anyone. I agree and discount sponsored jumpers opinions. I think if a jumper is sponsoered, their opinion is almost worthless. If the person had offers from several different gear manufacturers that had the some compensation and they made their choice based on which gear was best, then I would put stock in sponsored jumper's opinions. But that isn't usually the case.

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in closing there is a big differance between negative performance and derogatory statements don't lose you perspective if an eye witness account to the failure of a peice of equipment upsets some people then maybe they shuold look for a new sponsor

Your post would have been recieved better if you had been clear and had your facts straight. You made a very simple mistake and lost credibility because of it. I misunderstood your post about the mounting of the unit to mean it wasn't a Vigil, because it wasn't very clear.

So now that Vigil has the static electricity issue fixed, what issues to you have with the Vigil? Remember, that the Cypres had the same issues and have had misfires. And if you haven't heard of this, you haven't done your research as the information is readily available.

I'm curious, what are the differences and simularities between the Cypres and Vigil, in your opinion?

Derek

[riggerrob 615]

Oddly, even though the military CYPRES had already been put to use by more than a couple of military units, the airborne and special operations test board still had to "test" the unit before it could be put to use in anything other than an instructor rig (without a waiver anyway). Such is the nature of the military logistics procurement system.

[riggerrob 615]

It is amusing to watch the definition of "mis-fire" change over the years.

Back when I started instructing (1981) we only said that an FXC 8000 "mis-fired" if it fired above 3,000 feet.
Nowadays, student jumpers try to blame FXC 12000s firing at 2,000 feet as "mis-fires."
Why is any student jumper still in freefall below 3,000 feet?
No sympathy.

I also remember 3 women bringing fired Cypreses into the Elsinore loft in 1994. All 3 were humbled and grudgingly admitted that they were still freefalling through 1,000 feet.
Nowadays, skydivers complain about Cypres "mis-fires" at 1,000 feet.
What the ^&*&! is anyone doing freefalling through 1,000 feet?
No sympathy here either!

The moral of the story is: the popular definition of "mis-fire" has been pushed down to 1,000 feet and I have no sympathy for anyone who freefalls through 1,000 feet.

Signed,

Grumpy old-school rigger

[matthewcline 0]

PLease PM the details of the "mis-fire". You need not send the name of the jumper if you want to keep him or her out of the discussion.

I ask so that I can add this info to the research I am doing for my team as we need to look at replacing the aging Cypress' we have.

I have recived a lot of info from a foreign Airborne and Special Operations Freefall School and they have nothing but good things to say about the device.

They put the Cypress and Vigil side by side in a lengthy test and found them perfoming near identicle.

The features they liked where;

versatility (1 unit can be used in 3 different modes),

Lower maintanence cost

Less batteries used over a 48 month period

Lower initial cost (about a $250 difference in the US)

Compatability with all current Eurpoeanand US rigs (Yes, just like the cypress)

Thank You,
Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[heidihagen 0]

i think he's talking about the ones that were recalled (static electricity fix)... those were vigils. but from what I understand, that was earlier last year & the problem has been fixed.
popovitch, do a search-- you'll get a lot of opinions from previous posts. one called "vigil vs. cypres" or something like that... lot of good feedback!

i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce

[redknight 0]

***
The features they liked where;

versatility (1 unit can be used in 3 different modes),
Lower maintanence cost
Less batteries used over a 48 month period
Lower initial cost (about a $250 difference in the US)
Compatability with all current Eurpoeanand US rigs (Yes, just like the cypress)

Thank You,
Matt

[kimgriffin 0]

Being the fluent english speaking person on the Vigil team (me being with Vigil USA - and the mfg in Belgium), I realized that "no maintenance" wasn't the best wording since changing your battery is technically maintenance. So, we changed the wording to no scheduled maintenance. We didn't want that slogan to seem deceiving since you or your rigger (depending on the country) will have to change the battery in a minimum of 4 yrs or 700 jumps.

So, no, it is NOT a careful approach towards imposing a mandatory check. Just making sure our semantics are correct.

There's some pictures of the Vigil booth on their website under what's new... a bunch more to come under photo gallery.

I'm just home from PIA... a bit of a headache from the final banquet. Opps!