support the newbies!

[bales 0]

I have read a couple of comments about how newbies are overly enthusiastic and are jumping into the sport to aggresively. wouldnt you agree that your first jumps were so raw and not hindred by any outside influence. It was all about your own experience and how wide open your mind seemed to be to new ideas and possibilities. That seems to be the difinitive point in every skydivers career is that first feeling of delight. then to turn around years later and act like you dont understand where they are coming from is beyond me.

[AggieDave 6]

You're assuming that as experienced jumpers we're trying to stall low timers and we don't understand whats going on.

If you spend some time in the sport you'll see the most excited students jump too much too hard too often and burn out very fast. Infact this thread made me think of a specific person who did a bit over 500 jumps her first year and didn't make it past the 2nd year without getting really burned out really fast.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

I have read a couple of comments about how newbies are overly enthusiastic and are jumping into the sport to aggresively.

Can you point those threads out? You did misunderstand my thread, I'm wondering if you are understand the advise that is being given to the newbies.

Quote

wouldnt you agree that your first jumps were so raw and not hindred by any outside influence

So movies like Point Break and seeing a skydiver in an advertisement isn't an outside influence? There are outside influences all around you before you make your first skydive.

Quote

then to turn around years later and act like you dont understand where they are coming from is beyond me.

I work with low timers, students, and newbies, and I love to see the excitement in their eyes. Heck, I'm excited every time I put my gear on. IMO, no matter how many jumps someone has, I think there is a level of excitement, or else they wouldn't continue in the sport.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[bales 0]

Its not that I think experienced jumpers like yourself are trying to stall newbies its the vibe a lot of people give to the new guy at the DZ. As for myself I only have 3 jumps but i have spent a lot of time at DZ's and found it to be more of a chore than anything to get some advice or even some kind of friendship. Dont get me wrong there are tons of people who are willing to talk with and I enjoy myself every time I go its the top dogs who have all the advice who are the ones that typically dont enjoy sharing it.

[AggieDave 6]

Well, that's too bad, but that's not the same at all DZs.

Folks who have visited Aggieland will tell you that you hang out for a bit and do a jump and you're welcomed into the skydiving family with open arms. We pride ourselves on the cool layed back attitude at the DZ, but having top notch instruction. Folks will tell you that the instructional staff and the "top jumpers" at the DZ are more then happy to answer your questions or help you find the answer to your question. (For instance, sometimes our answer to your question will be "what does the SIM say?" That way you learn to use a good resource like the SIM).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bales 0]

I mainly based my comment off personal experience and was more of a general reply and was not intentionally attacking thread. As far as outside influeces go I think that we are both misunderstanding eachother. Im not refering to movies ,advertisements etc.. adn what gets you to show up to the DZ and jump but to the actual skydive. My mind clears and i am barely aware of anything around me, my friend docked me and i couldnt remember it until the video. It just seems like (and I could be completely wrong since i am not there yet) the more jumps you get the more concentrated on turning points and making a world record some people forget why they do it in the fist place. I have been surfing my whole life and do contest and got pretty competitive so I know how it can be. well liosing my train of thought ! Looking foward to hearing from you.

[NWFlyer 2]

It takes a while to break into any community. Sure, people will be friendly and welcoming, but it takes seeing your face there week in and week out for a while till you become part of the landscape and part of the family. The turnover rate in the student population is pretty high (now, we could argue the cause/effect there - are people not going out of their way to be friendly because they know most won't stick around or are most not sticking around because people aren't going out of their way to be friendly?).

I jump at a small, very welcoming DZ, but it did take a while to feel like I was really part of things there. As a newly-licensed jumper I make a point of talking to students, even though I don't have much more advice to offer them than "good luck" and "have fun." I know a lot of the year-round regulars, but because I started jumping regularly after the summer was over, I'm still meeting a lot of the upjumpers who are just coming out of the woodwork for the spring. If I want to meet people, I make a point of saying hi and introducing myself and not waiting for them to come to me.

Sounds like you're making an effort to meet people, but recognize that dropzones are busy places and the "top dogs" you talk about may just be very busy with whatever it is that makes them a "top dog" (training, etc.). They may be more comfortable leaving the instructing to the instructional staff, especially this early in your skydiving career. Maybe they do have attitude problems, who knows. Find those that don't.

Be willing to just sit back and absorb at the DZ, too. There's something to be learned from everyone there, even if it's just what not to do!

Welcome to skydiving!

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Crater 0]

Quote

this thread made me think of a specific person who did a bit over 500 jumps her first year and didn't make it past the 2nd year without getting really burned out really fast.

Probably a stupid question but how do you burn out by skydiving?

I can understand that the stress will catch up if you're putting yourself under excess pressure to perform. Is that what you're referring to?

edit: crappy spelling

_________________________________________

"That's not flying ... That's falling with style!" - (Woody, Toy Story)

[DrewGPM 0]

some compete, others like world records and big ways. Some belly fly, others freefly, and crazy bastards do CRW! You find what you like and stick with it. Try new things, you never whether you'll like it if don't try.

I prefer 4-way. I compete but we never train or get too serious! I also choose 4-way for my fun jumps. I like working with newbies, and 4-way makes it easy. Other that you'll see me on the sunset load with cooler around my neck...so i can have snack on my cross country! You haven't lived until you've had a pulled pork sandwich at 12,000 feet! THAT IS WHY I'M IN THE SPORT!

Find your thing and go with it! I got two words for you
NAKED JUMP!!!!

Stick with it and have fun!

[AggieDave 6]

It can happen, I know its hard to believe, but it can happen very easily.

If you're doing 20 jumps a weekend every weekend and it takes over your life, its easy to get to the point where its a chore to go to the DZ and you don't feel like jumping.

I'm willing to bet in a few years you'll have feelings of burning out, I know I've gotten them before. Although when I start getting burned out I'll either take a day off of jumping or go to a boogie or visit another DZ and it energizes me again.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Crater 0]

I see. There were a couple of times during my AFF course where I went to the DZ and didn't have the energy to jump. When that happened I just hung around and chatted to people instead. Never thought of it as burnout but I know what you're getting at.

_________________________________________

"That's not flying ... That's falling with style!" - (Woody, Toy Story)

[sweep 0]

The morning after my course and first jump I was woken by the sun about 7am (I was camping). The hangar doors had been left open and leaves had blown in overnight. For want of anything better to do I went and found a broom and started to sweep them out.

Within two hours I had a nickname and a bunch of new friends

Let people know you are in it for the long haul and you're willing to put back as much as you get out and you'll very quickly become part of the group. I'm now one of the DZ controllers and I head up the manifest team, not quite two years later.

Or you can pay your money, make your jumps and go home and stay a customer.

Some prefer the first, others the second. It's your call, go the way that works for you.

Bringing beer always helps too People always try to get out of beer fines (how many times have you heard people talk about doing their "pre-second" something?) but they are a good way to get chatting to people about what you did to earn the fine.....

Sweep

----
Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho..

[bch7773 0]

I think a problem is that many experienced jumpers see hundreds of new skydivers all say "I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life! I will jump every day!", then never see that person at the DZ ever again. It makes many people jaded (if thats the word I'm looking for).

MB 3528, RB 1182

[skr 1]

Maybe there are just lots of different kinds
of people who are experienced jumpers.

Some are like lasers, they are going where
they are going and fend off side issues.

Others are generalists who see some bigger
picture from several different sides.

Some are using skydiving as a means of
self worth, and others are just shy and don't
talk much to anybody.


But I see adults who can't seem to remember
how it was to be a kid, or be too young to
have the experience to know how stuff works
all the time.

I have wondered about that myself, but it's
not unique to skydiving.


So maybe for you it's just a matter of feeling
around for the ones who are approachable
and letting the rest be whatever they are.

Skr

[GravityGirl 0]

Quote

Probably a stupid question but how do you burn out by skydiving?

Every spring more of your friends die. Some are maimed others crippled for life. You loose friends, lovers, children loose fathers and mothers. You watch young jumpers walking around with a complete diregard for safety as if none of that ever mattered.

It's just a guess. But maybe that's how some people burn out on skydiving.

But for others it's like th e"Hotel California", you can check out any time you like, but you can't never leave.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Probably a stupid question but how do you burn out by skydiving?

I've not been around that long... but have already lost two good friends to skydiving...I know someone that chose to bow of the sport because of it...

I've talked to people that had 250 or so jumps that decided to quit because environment at the DZ was potentially detrimental to they're employment (drug use was mentioned... I don't know what DZ the person was at... and I don't think it is a universal thing...)

If someone does too much too fast then they might very well burn out because they don't "feel" like they are learning anymore (this is part of the reason I haven't started freeflying yet... its something to look forward to...)

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[tdog 0]

Quote

Dont get me wrong there are tons of people who are willing to talk with and I enjoy myself every time I go its the top dogs who have all the advice who are the ones that typically dont enjoy sharing it.

The top dogs (assuming you mean the ones that can do the top dog things with their body in the air, not just jump numbers or age) will be pushing their own limits all the time... Their perspective is going to be hard-core and advanced... I know a few people like this who don’t have time for *me* because they are so focused on improving themselves. Ya it is self-centered, but you got to respect that they are working so hard on *them*.

The key is to find friends who are willing to share, who might not be the top dogs, but still are better than you... I have a friend who taught me 50% of what I know in skydiving, especially on the gear/equipment use side, including how to pack. Once I pushed his limits of knowledge on packing, then I started asking the riggers the more difficult "what if" questions... My friend had less than 250 jumps and less than 2 years in the sport at the time. I was his first "student" with his new coach rating. Who owes the beer on that one??? Me thinks we were even. My other friend who taught me the other 50% for my A card had thousands of jumps and just loves working with students… Notice how I refer to these coaches as my friends, because we are…

The best teachers are the ones who want to teach, not the ones that have all the info... You can look the info up or ask someone else, you can't look up how to have the desire to teach.

The best friends are the ones who want to jump with ya, not the ones who see you as a way to make money from their coaching...

That is my opinion. Don't expect

[Remster 24]

Quote

As for myself I only have 3 jumps but i have spent a lot of time at DZ's and found it to be more of a chore than anything to get some advice or even some kind of friendship.

Since you give little to no info in your profile, its hard to tell what you mean by "a lot of time", and where.

If you spend 3 full weeekends at a large DZ to do only 3 jumps (which may feel like a lot of time to you) you may well just fade in the background of the number of people there. Lets face it, and you know it yourself, 3 jumps isnt a lot, so even the instructors wont know you too well.

At the other end of the sprectrum, if you spend every weekend hanging around at the DZ, for a year, and only made 3 jumps, well, no offence, but unless we really hit it off in a chance meeting, I'll spend my time and energy getting to know the guys and gals who are jumping.

All I am trying to say if that its nice to meet people, but there are a lot of peopel to meet at a DZ: my priorities will be to get to know people who may stick around in the medium term (who the hells knows what happens in the long term).

Its one thing being nice to people and ask them how their jump was and how they liked it, its another to go out of your way to become best friends with every tandem passenger.

Remster

[360daysofsun 0]

I understand completely, and as it was mentioned, it’s not restricted to Skydiving. Every sport has a core base (frequent fliers), the middle group (those that do it every now and then) and the new group. The first two groups interact, while the new people can be easily overlooked.

Regardless of the sport, the key is seeking out the few who are willing to let you into their group. They are easy to find, since often they will find you. I’m new to skydiving, but I’ve been in other sports where I I’ve been part of the core (and still am). In those sports I make it a point to seek out the new faces, and introduce them to my group. In the end, it energizes the sport for everyone.

After I finished my training, I’ve made it a point to seek others who are in the same boat. New to the sport, and looking for others to fine tune their skills. This weekend we will be camping at the DZ, and I’m doing to approach the training staff to see if I can leave my name and number to be given to students earning their A lic. Do the same at your DZ.

Every sport looses its appeal if you’re all alone. Being part of a group makes a huge difference.

Todd .... "Life, figure it out."

[Remster 24]

PS: by getting to know people who jump vs. those who dont, just so I'm not misunderstood, I dont mean someone who has 100s of jumps. Someone going through their AFF or off student status is fair game too...

Remster

[Reginald 0]

Quote

As for myself I only have 3 jumps but i have spent a lot of time at DZ's

Sorry my eager friend, with 3 jumps your idea of spending a lot of time at the DZ and other peoples will differ. I’m a relative newbie to this sport but I’ve spent every weekend, rain or shine, at my DZ for almost 2 years. Some of the super old timers with 30 plus years in the sport are just beginning to accept me as someone that is worth their time to help. Others started adopting me AFTER I got my license. Honestly, at 3 jumps they are probably expecting you to learn from your instructors and they don’t want to interfere with what the instructors are teaching you. I’ve found I get back what I put in. If you show the dedication of being there every weekend, especially when the weather is bad, and you get your license I bet that the up jumpers will start noticing you and helping.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[yarpos 4]

"But for others it's like th e"Hotel California", you can check out any time you like, but you can't never leave..... "

that is so right....for me at least...stopped (or is that paused?) long ago...always wanted to be back in the sky....checking back in again now :-)

regards

Steve

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[Danger 0]

In one post you say you have 3 jumps and in another you say a friend with video is docking on you. Are you an experienced jumper or a student?

[thepollster 0]

Quote

found it to be more of a chore than anything to get some advice or even some kind of friendship

Well, I won't give you advice because I'm not your instructor, and anyone who isn't an instructor at your DZ shouldn't give advice to a student. As for the friendship, I may be friendly, but I'll expect you to quit skydiving soon, so getting to know you may have been effort wasted. Anyone who has been around a while sees so many students come and go.

But the bright side is, we have all been there, and if you go through the program, and get your license, and continue jumping (not just hanging out), you will start having more people to jump with. It just takes time, and for you to continue jumping.

[daveb 1]

Quote

My mind clears and i am barely aware of anything around me, my friend docked me and i couldnt remember it until the video.

Your mind is not cleared -- it's overloaded; most people's are. AFF jumpmasters might be friends, but at 3 jumps, they're not docking, they're holding you stable.

Quote

It just seems like (and I could be completely wrong since i am not there yet) the more jumps you get the more concentrated on turning points and making a world record some people forget why they do it in the fist place.

Hi, my name is Dave, and I have a problem. I like turning points and doing big ways. You do too? Let's go jump!

It's all a learning experience. Five years ago I had no idea I'd be doing what I am today, and I've only the most vague of notions about what the next five will bring my way. I do know that I'll think differently about the sport in five years' time, in the same manner that I jump for different reasons today than what brought me to my first jumps. So, in response to your statement, yes, I am far more concentrated on turning point and making world records than when I started, though not in exclusion to sharing what other more experienced jumpers have shared with me, and not without still feeling the sheer joy of freefall. That's not a bad thing.

If you ever see me acting like a skygod or snotting on the newbies, I deserve your disrespect and need a good bitch-slap. That's not who am I or who I want to become; the world has enough of those already.