Unsafe setup!

[Foursprouts 0]

The weirdest thing happened to me today. I am still not sure what the f$%$ it really was. I disagreed with a senior staff member about the spot. First pass I was told to go around, second pass the senior jumpmaster gave me lights to fly away from the dropzone then jumped out I had turn turn back or last one out would be hosed. I landed to do a turn and was replaced by the other pilot, not my choice. About half an hour later I was given a random drug test (random?) and told I am on thin ice and could easily be replaced. I spoke to the other tandem masters on the plane and they thought the first pass was fine and didnt know what the F$@# was going on with the directions from the back on the second one. I guess that at the place I work you are not allowed to question the judgement of anyone in a senior possition or they will look for reasons to fire you. I think it is a very dangerouse message to put out to the other people who work there. Don't worry you wont be jumping where I work as you are not allowed. If anyone knows of a place that needs a pilot please let me know as I have had enough. 1500 Total time 700 jumpers 250 turboprop 160 multi CFI,CFII,MEI.

[nbblood 0]

Hhhmmmm......let me guess, casinos are readily available in that area.....

If I'm right, doesn't surprise me in the very least!

Blues,
Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[markbaur 0]

Your post isn't quite clear, so I'm guessing you're a jump pilot flying tandems in a Caravan or Otter.

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I disagreed with a senior staff member about the spot.

Sorry, the pilot doesn't get to choose the spot. You can make recommendations, but your job is to fly the altitude, direction, and speed the jumpmaster wants.

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[On the] second pass ... I had turn turn back or last one out would be hosed.

It is possible to hose tandems with a long enough spot, but tandems can usually pull a little higher to make it back. It is still the jumpmasters' responsibility to spot or ask for a go-around. Your job is still to fly the jump run they've asked for.

Mark

[Beerlight 0]

So I take it that you haven't been flying jump planes long?

If that's the case, who explained how to spot to you?

And last, this isn't the place to flame a DZ bro........

over,

[akjmpplt 0]

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Sorry, the pilot doesn't get to choose the spot. You can make recommendations, but your job is to fly the altitude, direction, and speed the jumpmaster wants.

This pilot does. I'm the one responsible, not the jumper. The jumper does have the option to stay in the airplane if they don't like the spot.

SmugMug

[Antithesis 0]

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This pilot does. I'm the one responsible, not the jumper. The jumper does have the option to stay in the airplane if they don't like the spot.

Get real! You pilots amaze me! Whenever theres something wrong with the spot it's never your responsibility, it's the jumpers. But now it's the pilots responsibility to spot for a jumper??? Over my dead body!!

I call bullshit on that one, If a pilot doesn't make the corrections that I ask for (and I'm not unreasonable) then I would not jump.. When I jump, I am the jumpmaster and I have to land my own wings.

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[Kris 0]

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This pilot does. I'm the one responsible, not the jumper. The jumper does have the option to stay in the airplane if they don't like the spot.

Then it looks like I won't be jumping out of your plane. You may be responsible for the passengers in your aircraft, but *I* am responsible for my own safety.

Granted, you've got some jumps under your belt, but if you're flying, you're not seeing the same picture that I'm seeing when I'm looking out the door. I don't just go when the GPS or pilot tells me to, that kind of goes hand-in-hand with being responsible for myself.

If I'm instructing students, I will make the decision as to where we get out. Your job is to get us there in a safe, professional manner, period.

As another example, if a pilot has never made a birdman jump or isn't familiar with how exit-planning / spotting is done for that type of jump then he will have to take his spotting cue's from me.

Anyone else have a problem with this?

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[billvon 2,476]

>If a pilot doesn't make the corrections that I ask for (and I'm
> unreasonable) then I would not jump..

No problem. He said you didn't have to jump.

>But now it's the pilots responsibility to spot for a jumper??? Over
>my dead body!!

Most DZ's now spot via GPS, which is operated by the pilot.

>When I jump, I am the jumpmaster and I have to land my own wings.

But no one will pull your ticket for punching a cloud - legally they can pull the pilot's. So he has a greater legal responsibility than you do.

[akjmpplt 0]

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Get real! You pilots amaze me! Whenever theres something wrong with the spot it's never your responsibility, it's the jumpers. But now it's the pilots responsibility to spot for a jumper??? Over my dead body!!

I call bullshit on that one, If a pilot doesn't make the corrections that I ask for (and I'm unreasonable) then I would not jump.. When I jump, I am the jumpmaster and I have to land my own wings.

I certainly don't blame others if I make a mistake....and once paid for a load that I mis-spotted.

To clarify, I don't drop jumpers like bombs. You get to pick your exit point along the jump run. I decide on where that jumprun is flown and where I open and close the door. If there is something special about the jump (CRW, wingsuit, whatever) we'll talk about it and make needed adjustments.

You might be amazed at the number of jumpers who really don't have a clue about spotting. On the other hand one of the local jumpers has my total trust on a spot. You know the guy, started jumping when parachutes were round and spots were much more critical.

Come jump my airplane, you'll like the spot, trust me.

SmugMug

[Antithesis 0]

We all know that there are so many pilots at all skill levels. There are some pilots that I am very comfortable with and others that I am more concerned about.

The bottom line for me is that we have to work togather. It may be his ticket, But, It's also my life, my safety and my gear.. That is where my responsibility lies. As well as the people often behind me. AKjmpilot is probably a great pilot. I lived in AK off and on for ten yrs and know that the bar for flying is raised there + He's a jumper.

I'm not talking about punching clouds, or avoiding them within peramiters. I'm talking about just plain BAD (pilot) spots , We all know that they happen from time to time for whatever reason

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[Antithesis 0]

Hey, I bet that I would be comfortably with you as a pilot.

Where are you flying in AK?

I've been working out of Dutch harbor For almost ten yrs. But lived and worked all over SE AK.

I'm A merchant mariner now but I still plan on being back to alaska in the future, I love that state.

Do you know a coastie chopper pilot named Dave morton and his wife Andrea that jumps in AK? The live in Kodiak.

oops, this should have been a pm

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[Foursprouts 0]

Ok, let me claruify. I do not spot, i just line up as best i can where i am told to when the winds are received three minuites prior. I can tell if i am way off but you are right I cannot see straight down. I always follow the jump lights if it is safe to do so. I am not a jumper and respect the directions of the jumpmasters. The problem that I had is that I was told to go around from a run that I know was ok, I did not argue I went around, the next run I was told to fly a crazy correction which I did. I then felt the guy spotting leave. When I landed I was replaced and drug tested. It was not my mistake and so fucking what if we had to go around, that is no reason to replace a pilot and drug test them for letting the guy in the back know you think he was being a bit difficult. I just think it is very unsafe to make people beleive that even if you dare to maybe dissagree with a senior member of staff they will try to get rid of you. I am not ragging on jumpers, I like most of you, I do not think I know more about spotting than experienced jumpers, I understand that it is you that are jumping not me, I am not a pilot who will say get the fuck out, I will allways go around for any reason or bring anyone back down who wants to. I am just saying how unbeleivably stupid it is to send out a message that if you question a senior staff member not only will they dismiss the idea that they could be wrong they will try to get rid of you and probly make your life hell untill they do, I havent found out about the last part yet. An air India 747 crashed a few years ago killing everyone on board because the captains attitude indicator tumbled on takeoff and he followed it into a mountain. There were three backups but no one dared question the captain. It is unsafe to be scared to question people senior to you and that is the message being put out at the place I work.

[Antithesis 0]

I sympathize with you and your predicament. Perhaps you have been treated unfairly. I'm not familiar with your DZ, the people who run the operation, their reasoning for giving you a UA. Perhaps it's not quite as bad as it seems and that there are other factors to consider and perhaps what you have is also a misunderstanding. I certainly hope so and also wish you the best of luck. you did say that the other jumpers on the load seemed to see no problem with your first run. What can you do but your job right.

I might add though that if you get more specific about your employer in this forum, you could put them in a situation that would only complicate the one you already have with them. I hope that you can find a way to talk with the people involved without sharing ill feelings.

Best of luck,
Blue Skies

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[slug 1]

Hi Four

I'm not a pilot.

IMO your hunch is correct, it's time to find a different plane to fly.
Requesting a UA was a not to subtle message about the DZO thought of your flying abilities/pecking order at the DZ.

[Unstable 8]

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Hhhmmmm......let me guess, casinos are readily available in that area.....

If I'm right, doesn't surprise me in the very least!

Hmm, that is the hunch I'm getting. Along with the "Random" drug tests, I think I know where you are coming from.
IMO, and from just what you have told me, seems like a poor operation for a pilot to be flying at. Many DZ's are in need of more pilots, work for an experienced Diver Driver shouldn't be hard to find..

=========Shaun ==========

[tattoojeff 0]

that sounds way fucked up and typical dz political bullshit with a side of egos. yes i believe my dz is in need of a pilot. we have caravans and otters. email me for more info if your serious.
jeff