Slow down free fall speed

[Kerozene 0]

Hi people,

Before posting this, I've searched for an equivalent post in the forum, without success. So excuse me if this is a pretty common post.

Here's the prob:

My freefall speed (on belly) is usually between 120 mph to 130 mph. This year (due to 5 added pounds of dear fat), I tend to fall at 130 mph. While coaches don't have any problem following me and working amusing RW stuff, a bit more than half of my collegues have problems following me. In reality, they can follow, but their body position is usually quite altered and their ability to do RW moves is hindered.

I try slowing down as I've been teached, but without much success (can't get really lower than 115 mph).

Solutions?

Of course, I'll start loosing the extra weight .

Would adding "sleeves" to my forearms really slow me down? How many mph could I expect ?
My jumpsuit is a Tony Suit "swoop suit with a little bit of slack (not totally tight) but spandex arms (stupid move during ordering). Height 5'11', weight 190 lb.

Coaches usually find my freefall speed ok. Is it normal that novices like myself and some friends are more sensible to weight/projected area differences?

"That makes me angry, and when Dr. Evil gets angry, Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset. And when Mr. Bigglesworth gets upset....people DIE!!!"

[AggieDave 6]

First of all, dress for success, you need a jumpsuit that is designed to help you achieve what you need to acheive. Be it to speed up, or slow down your normal relaxed body position.

Secondly, find a coach that will actually work with you, instead of giving you bullshit answers. After you have the right jumpsuit its all about technique.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Tonto 1]

I don't think 130 MPH on your belly is very fast.

Most of my AFF students are between 120 and 125 when they complete the program. As they learn to relax more, they're closer to
130 by the time they finish ISP. This includes the 115 lb, 5'10 female
students in similar suits to yours.

115 I would consider to be a very slow fallrate. My range, flat, in Birdman Pantz and a long sleeve T is between 100 and 145ish. If I need to go faster than that - it's onto my feet or my head to get there.

I'm 165lbs and 5'11.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[kingbunky 3]

i'm a n00b at rw stuff (and skydiving in general) but i would think that unless you're jumping with a bunch of real lightweights, 115 - 120 is an average rw freefall speed. it sounds like you're fine at that range, the others will have to learn to arch!

someone please correct me if i'm wrong here.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

115 I would consider to be a very slow fallrate.

Most RW jumps I've been on that have had more then 4 people 115 was the average and 111 was more the norm when it got a little slow. This is with very experienced RW people.

If his absolute slowlest ability is 115 then he's going to be hosed for a lot of RW work, especially since he'll be at his limit and not able to fly. 130 is kinda fast for a lot of RW except for maybe some 2-4 way stuff in which folks will keep the fall rate cranking for that extra power in their turns and such.

For me, in my experience I strive to be able to maintain the ability to do 110 on the slow end and average 115 on my belly. Beyond that, if I just relax into a nice body position I'm usually doing 130-135, but that's so rare for me to be able to do its not even funny.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Beyond that, if I just relax into a nice body position I'm usually doing 130-135, but that's so rare for me to be able to do its not even funny.

Hell, lets try that in a couple weeks when I'm at SDA... I know I can hit 125-135 without any strain...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zep 0]

This Is not directed at you Dave, I just happend to answer to the last posted.

I have noted that over the years RW is getting slower, an this is wrong,
In my opinion RW should be done at 120 +/- If people have a neutral fall speed of 110 or below
they need to speed up,
A good base flyers will speed up or slow down the formation according to the fallrate of the fastest person (within reason)
( I'm talking 4-8 way)
People with more years in the sport will remember taking a formation down to a low person (again within reason)
now it dosen't happen, if your down an dirty you are out in the cold, which according to experience levels can be a hazzard

I feel that jumpsuit manafactures are making people lazy by relying too much on the jumpsuit and not enough on technique


My opinion.

Gone fishing

[Zep 0]

I wish I could jump more in the States with you big guys My neutral is 135

I basically took up freefly as the Europeans are all to skinny.

Gone fishing

[sundevil777 94]

Sleeves will help a little, but I think you should get another suit, the swoop suit is not appropriate for you. Did the people at Tony Suit advise you on your choice for what version to buy? The slower falling suit version, simply called the 'Tony suit' is baggier, will have a little bit of wing, and made with heavier fabric, which has more drag.

In my experience, you must be able to slow down to 110, and fly comfortably at 115 to be able to play with the rest of us. That speed is SAS, were you quoting your SAS or TAS speed?

After you lose the weight, you will have 2 suits for different jobs.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Remster 26]

Quote

After you lose the weight, you will have 2 suits for different jobs.

And you'll need those. us fatties (no offence! ) need multiple suits. I have 4, with 2 I jump all the time.

The skinny folks have it easy finacially: all the need is lead (typically). But I would much rather wear cotton then 15 lbs of lead! lol

Remster

[darrenspooner 0]

Yes, I do have this problem exactly. If I want to slow down and hug the barrell then I can't get around much in the sky. And ditto in reverse. I think to really get your skills up you need to carry on jumping with very experienced people. I jumped with an experienced chap today and he was able to compensate for my inadequacy and stay on the same level such that we turned a few points, for the first time in my life. I tried loads of jumps with people of the same experience level, who are equally desperate to get some FS experience, and they all sucked (including me!).

[billvon 2,478]

>I have noted that over the years RW is getting slower . . .

The opposite is happening. Balloon suits for bigways were not so long ago, and when I started, no one had nylon suits. Speeds overall have been going up over the years.

>In my opinion RW should be done at 120 +/- If people have a
>neutral fall speed of 110 or below they need to speed up . . .

Everyone needs to match whatever fall rate the rest of the dive is going at. I've done wingsuit formation flights at 60mph, RW (well, AFF level 4) at 95mph and 4-way at 125mph. One world record I was on averaged around 112; another averaged around 124. Everyone on the dive - and that means up to 360 people - matched the fall rate in both cases. It's not hard to do. It just takes a combination of skill, judgement and equipment.

>A good base flyers will speed up or slow down the formation
> according to the fallrate of the fastest person . . .

A good base will choose a fallrate, then set (and maintain) that fallrate. Sucking an entire dive down to one person is not a recipie for success.

[Tonto 1]

Maybe being at a surface elevation of 5000 ft AMSL means the air is thinner and people here fall faster. Anyone from high altitude DZ's have any numbers?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[billvon 2,478]

>Would adding "sleeves" to my forearms really slow me down? How
> many mph could I expect ?

Depends on the sleeves. Big ones with a lot of fabric could give you 4 mph depending on how you use them.

Long sleeve T-shirts and sweatshirts work as well. I used a sweatshirt on the 2002 world record to stay with the amazingly slow base. You can cut 8mph with a baggy sweatshirt. Make sure the shirt will not cover your handles.

Swoop cords work well and can be 'retracted' to give you a wider fallrate range.

Booties can give you more range once you get used to them - BUT - many novices do not use them well, and they can do more harm than good.

Webbed gloves are good as well, and help a _lot_ in conjunction with booties due to the distribution of drag on a typical skydiver.

Suit material makes a difference as well. Nylon is fastest. Cordura is pretty slow. I've even seen corduroy suits that are designed for maximum drag.

Suit cut makes a big difference. I have two suits that give me a 12mph difference in the tunnel in terms of my minimum speed (when swoop cords are used in the slow one.)

>Is it normal that novices like myself and some friends are more
>sensible to weight/projected area differences?

Yes, novices generally have more trouble compensating for someone with a drastically different fallrate than their natural one. It's important to get good at adjusting fallrate first, then get a jumpsuit that puts you in the middle of your range for the jumping you are doing. That way you're flying the suit instead of the other way around.

[GQ_jumper 4]

take a look at my jump numbers before you read my post here

it's probably not the answer you're lookin for but like a few other people in here have mentioned, learn to adjust the fall rate without the help of a suit. i wear a close fitting rw suit made out of nylon, and weigh 235 out the door, according to a pro track i've dropped to 95 before while still bein able to manuver. once you can start adjusting fall rate then get a suit that makes it easier to get to the fall rate you want so the skill is still there when you need to use it.

i also jump at a dz that 5500' MSL so for me learning fall rate control was a necessity and i put a lot of jumps right after i got my a license into just fall rate control. i'm still far from having it down but learning to fly with scrawny people wearing freefly suits while i'm in a rw suit hsas definitely sped up the learning curve!!

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

Maybe being at a surface elevation of 5000 ft AMSL means the air is thinner and people here fall faster. Anyone from high altitude DZ's have any numbers?

t

About 2% faster per 1,000 ft of density altitude.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.