They say that any skydive you walk away from...

[Remster 24]

... is a good skydive.

Well, I had a good one on Sunday.

I did the landing I always do: front riser 90 deg to double front as I'd rather turn on the higer side then on the lower side. When I let go of the risers, my right hand toggle slipped from my hand.

At that point, I was going fast, but no where in the corner, so my speed was mostly horizontal. I had time to reach for the rear riser and was about to start pulling them appart to slow down when I hit the ground.

I guess if the double blindman (as in 2 full line twists in the lines) hasnt been officially recognized as a freestyle move, it should be, coz according to the people on the groud, it was nice! lol

My knees and thighs too the worse of the impact, but excpet for quite a bit of bruising, some swelling, a couple fo small scrapes and quite a few acke and pains, I dont have any other injuries.

I think 2 things made this a lesser accident then it could have been: the fact that I was really not in any corner and having very little vertical speed; And the fact that my bones are huge.

Having had quicker reflexes in reaching and pulling the rears would have of course been better, but so woul dhave no letting the toggle slip!

Leason learn: I'll re-evaluate how I hold my toggles. Any suggestion from swoopers?


Technical details:
Sam 136 loaded at 1.8
gloves, tackified newmans (always wear them)

rig and other stuff not too relevant IMO.

Remster

[lisamariewillbe 1]

not a swooper and to new to give a suggestion , but just like to say congrats on not dying and glad you are okay.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Brains 2]

How do you hold your toggles now, and do you normally use your rears for landing (risers that is not landing on your rear.)

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Oh Remi! So glad that you are ok!
Damn it man!
Oh and feel free to use your rear bumper anytime, I do if it means saving my feet that are not well protected with the type of shoe I wear for freestyle.
Tis better to walk 5 miles than crawl five feet
As to toggle holding, I've seen lots of dropped toggles using the "two finger" method. I'll keep mine secure course I am not a swooper

[Remster 24]

Probably not in the best way! lol

Its the way I've always held them. I put 3 fingers in the toggle (not the pinky) as I found that my whole hand (4 fingers) felt wierd when I tried it before. I use the top 2 fingers for the risers and leave my ring fingers to secure the toggles.

I dont use rears for landings. It was my plan B as I was not trying to find that toggle with 5-10 feet left...

Remster

[Remster 24]

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rear bumper anytime

I Think I used most of my flat and bumpy surfaces!

Remster

[LouDiamond 1]

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I'll re-evaluate how I hold my toggles

Good idea. Stick your hand in them. The only digit not in the loop should be the thumb.Glad to hear you're alright. So did ya leave a divot or did ya plow the field?

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And the fact that my bones are huge

We won't make fun of your deformity other than you being Canadian.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[jerm 0]

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Leason learn: I'll re-evaluate how I hold my toggles. Any suggestion from swoopers?

Technical details:
Sam 136 loaded at 1.8
gloves, tackified newmans (always wear them)

rig and other stuff not too relevant IMO.

Glad yer ok dude...

I always have my whole hand through the togges and use only 2-3 fingers on the fronts but make the srip with my whole hand so that my pinky keeps the toggle in place. Letting go of the front riser then involves only a few fingers and not an entire opening of my hand. Gripping the dive-loop with 4 fingers means you have to let go with 4 fingers and if your toggle happens move forward on your hand... well.. you were lucky.

I'm no pro swooper, so i can't speak to 'proper technique', but it feels very solid and has kept me safe so far. I'm not worried about having to flare with jsut my pinky(though i imagine i could), as it's not there to actually takje the load of the toggle, jsut keep it from slipping to the wrong place on my hand.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[Brains 2]

I hold mine the same way only i run the steering line between my index finger and my middle finger. I feel the line there and i feel like i know it isn't going anywhere very easily. Practice some rear riser stuff to get the switch from fronts to rears down. With your canopy and loading, you will be amazed at the difference it makes when you start using them to plane out instead of toggles. Glad you are ok.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Remster 24]

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Practice some rear riser stuff to get the switch from fronts to rears down

Righ now, I'm gonna find a better way to hold on to the toggles, and then parctice that and only taht for a few jumps.

Then, I'll go back to 90 front risers to toggle flares... Maybe long term I'll start playing with rears, but, its not in my goals right now...

Remster

[jerm 0]

one other thing.. how tacky are your gloves? Too tacky of a glove might make you need to let go more agressively than normal to release the loop and risk you letting go of more than you should

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[Remster 24]

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how tacky are your gloves

They are 1 1/2 year old, so not very tacky anymore.

Remster

[mattsplat 0]

PLF..........................

[Tonto 1]

Glad you're OK.
Again, I'm no swoop god, but after 1000's of toggle spanks, I made the change to riser swoops.

My greatest fear in this change was toggle loss. An example I chose since he had the same number of jumps and was jumping the same canopy I was. Of course, he's Canadian...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=449617;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

After thinking about it and trying stuff for about a year, I settled on.

1. Whole hand in the toggle
2. Bottom 2 fingers ALWAYS locked.
3. Dive loops only with top 2 fingers.
4. Build habit of only releasing top two while leaving the rest locked.

I always wear gloves, also tackified Newmans.

Rear riser flare is more than a "go further" technique. It may save you from injury in this kind of situation.

It's the year of the Pig.

[Remster 24]

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It may save you from injury in this kind of situation.

That was the plan... I have practiced up higher with this new Canopy as a back up.

But, I see your point... By being more confortable with the technique, I may have transitioned to rears quicker after loosing the toggle. May have. I really reacall making the transition as soon as I felt the toggle slip, but didnt have time to pull them appart...

Remster

[diablopilot 2]

My thoughts.

All 4 fingers in the toggle.

Use 2 or 3 for the front riser dive loop.

Practice rear riser flares.

Don't wear ANYTHING on your hand for landing. I remove all gloves, swoop cords, ect. as it is a distraction to have anything on my hand.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mjosparky 3]

I have no advise to offer, just glad to hear you won the battle. Would hate to lose a fellow zipper racer.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Remster 24]

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Don't wear ANYTHING on your hand for landing

You remove your gloves after opening?

Remster

[jdfreefly 1]

I did the exact same thing a year before you, to the day...the coincidence would be cooler if my mistake had not cost me 6 months with no skydiving! And I still don't walk right...

I don't know that changing the way you hold the toggles is the solution.

I think you may want to re-evaluate how you pull on the front risers, and also, the way you use those fronts.

As far as the way you use them:
You need to have a transitional period, where you are on neither your fronts nor your rears or toggles. When you allow yourself to be in a situation where you have to immediately transition from fronts to rears or brakes, you are decreasing an already narrow margin for error.

I think we are going to see an increase in this, as low turn awareness increases and coming out of turns too high becomes the new problem.

On how you hold things:
I used 4 fingers through the toggle (with the toggle across the palm of my hand) and the same four fingers through the dive loops.

Now, I still use the 4 finger thorugh the toggle, but I only put two fingers through the dive loops.

If you are going to change the way you hold something, change the thing that is less vital to a safe landing.

More info - At the time of losing the toggle, how high was the riser pressure? Did you release the fronts, or did the pressure get so high that they were basically ripped from your hands?

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[Remster 24]

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how high was the riser pressure

Highish, but not that high. It was a release of the front loops, they didnt just pop out.

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When you allow yourself to be in a situation where you have to immediately transition from fronts to rears or brakes, you are decreasing an already narrow margin for error.

It was more a case of I went to the rears as soon as I felt the toggle slip. Its not something I do on landings usually, so my reaction may have been slower then it could have been.

That being said, point taken about the transition period, but from eyewitnesses, I was quite planned out when I made contact.

Remster

[jdfreefly 1]

My toggle drop was on a Velocity 111, so perhaps our situations were more different then I gave them credit for. Sounds like yours was more of an "oops" where as mine was more of a, "holy shit, how the hell am I going to survive this? Our father who art....."

Try what I(and Jerm) said about using only two or three fingers in the dive loops. If you don't like it, you can try some new ways to hold the toggles.

Personally, I would rather change the way I grab the dive loops.

PS - that bit about having a more defined transition period was given to me from a former world champion of swooping, where as the stuff about only grabbing the dive loop with 2 or three fingers was something I came up with on my own...just an fyi

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[flyangel2 2]

I'm glad you are okay.

I keep all four fingers in my toggles, but I'm not a swooper. Oh, and I keep my gloves on, ya never know when you are going to have a bad landing out in some sticker covered field.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[foxyroxtail 0]

Glad you're (mostly) OK, Remi!

We have a friend here in NC who can't jump anymore due to loosing toggles at flair on a high-performance landing. He was doing double-front straight-in approachs and had two fingers in the toggles - one slipped right out. He didn't realize it when he went to flair.

I was in the air above my hubby when a similar thing happened to him, only he knew before the flair, so he just didn't. (No time for rears - he went straight to protect mode) His fingers were all in the toggles, but he didn't keep any locked on the toggles as he released the fronts. He PLF'd at impact and had only bruises and a thigh blow-out on his jumpsuit.

Good luck in your bang 'em up healing, and with your new technique work!!

Pam

________________________________________

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Glad you're okay Remi. A couple of years ago I came close to dropping a toggle after doing a 90 degree front riser dive in the winter while wearing warm but somewhat slippery fleece gloves. I'll never jump with those gloves again.

The entire toggle goes through my hand, I pull down on my risers with three fingers and wrap my pinkie fingers around the toggles when I swoop which lately is virtually every jump (unless I'm jumping off of fixed objects).

Once again, I'm glad you had the experience to go to your rears. Today I can easily land with my rears as virtually every jump I make I'm on them when I swoop, but I wonder if I would have gone to them a couple of years ago when I came close to dropping my toggle.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Deuce 1]

Our loading is about the same, and your describe your landings as being similar in procedure and "reason why" as mine as well. I enjoy flying my canopy aggresively, but don't want every landing to be death-defying.

Remy, I really think you should get the whole hand in there (minus the thumb) and just use fingers 1-3 on the front risers, depending on how much effort it takes to fly them. I use risers to dive and turn on to final, and brakes only to flare. I make all my final course corrections on risers.

I use 3/4 gloves (at least) on every skydive. Particularly with tandems, after a day of wrestling them (two sets of toggles per side to land) my hands just aren't up to doing that without gloves. With the 3/4's I have good fingertip dexterity with protection for the rest of my hands.

I'm really glad you aren't to much the worse for wear, and I'm envious of your huge French bone-structure. I got the fragile French bone structure gene, and I would've been in a body cast if I had had that landing.