Does AFF-I rating make skydiving a job?

[Icon134 0]

So down the road I intend to get my Coach and AFF rating... (I'm already working on the coach rating...)

But I've seen many people stress the importance of seperating the Job of skydiving from the recreation of skydiving (since for me it is a recreational activity and I want to keep it that way...)

How many people out there have AFF-I ratings and still don't consider skydiving a "Job"? Oh, and How do you manage to do that? I'm not sure I want to be a full time Tandem Videographer either.

Scott

btw: I don't think I want my TI rating because of seperating the two as well.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[Remster 24]

I got my PFF rating last year (PFF is the Canadian version of AFF). I took it for 2 main reasons: I wanted a challenge and I love instructing/coaching.

I really dont see my jumps as a PFFI as work tough... I really enjoy them, and the breifing/debreifins too.

A bit like you, TI ratings attracts me less. I may go for it next year, but I'd rather concentrate on PFF.

Remster

[chopchop 0]

I do tandem vids and AFF at our dz.. Sometimes the tandem vids feel like work. AFF seldom if ever feels like work. I don't do as much fun-jumping as I used to and sometimes I miss it but overall I jump alot more, I feel like I am accomplishing something and my hobby that used to cost me $5k a year now makes me a little lunch money.

I am not interested in getting a TI rating. The 2 things I do allow me to feed off the energy of the first-timers and still fly my own parachute.

So.. with that said, everyone is different.. You'll probably notice it's the jumpers that don't do work jumps that say it sucks..

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[Deuce 1]

It depends.

On an AFF jumpe where the light goes on for the student and they progress and experience joy, it's like stealing.

When they try to kill you (I mean make serious unintentional errors that put their lives and the instructor's at risk) it's not so fun.

ChopChop? I doubt you were experiencing much joy when that recent student injured himself on landing.

Icon, even when the instructor does everything right sometimes the student doesn't or can't learn, and that's frustrating.

It can also be frustrating to be dependent on the instructors who came before you having taught everything that the previous levels require, only to find out they were glossed over.

I love doing all of it, tandems, AFF, and video.

JP

[chopchop 0]

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ChopChop? I doubt you were experiencing much joy when that recent student injured himself on landing.

Oh.. yeah.. there is that.. it's no fun when your student screams in pain and gets taken away in an ambulance.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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You'll probably notice it's the jumpers that don't do work jumps that say it sucks.

I wouldn't even be able to count all the fingers on one hand the number of professional skydivers that work at the DZ where I do most of my jumps that can be seen doing anything other than paid jumps. Far too many of these people only jump when it is a paid jump. Oh and once the tandem and AFF traffic has gone home, these professional skydivers can also be seen going home as well leaving only the diehards left to try and fill loads. Whatever happened to the notion that experienced skydivers should jump with the inexperienced. Too often the only time I see them jump is when the inexperienced person is paying the experienced person's way. Is this something to look forward too? Shoulds like a shitty deal to me.

So I guess you're right, those of us who aren't privelaged enough (or liked enough) to get paid to skydive think this sucks. I hope I never turn into one of those people who only jump when they get paid to jump.

PS: I'm not counting packers in this group of people who only jump when they get paid. I'm only referring to the TMs, AFFIs and video people.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[chopchop 0]

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I wouldn't even be able to count all the fingers on one hand the number of professional skydivers that work at the DZ where I do most of my jumps that can be seen doing anything other than paid jumps.

That's too bad.. We usually fill a King Air staff sunset load at Byron. We may have been doing work jumps most of the day but when the work is done, most of us still love to skydive.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[slotperfect 7]

My favorite skydives are (in order of priority):

1) Tandems
2) AFF
3) 16 way RW & larger
4) Sunrise HAHOs (cross-country jumps)

I joined the Army 21 years ago for other reasons than skydiving, but I chose my career specialty (Parachute Rigger) because of a recruiting film I saw about Airborne Paratroopers. I fell in love with jumping out of airplanes because of that film. I chose to be a Rigger because I could jump my entire career. 21 years later I have never been off jump status.

That being said, I make the skydives I do because 1) I love the experiences, 2) the knowledge and experience I gain from those types of jumps boosts both my civilian and military proficiency, and 3) it pays me a little money every month. I am really not in this for the money - I have a career for that.

Most days I leave when the students are all gone - not because I don't like jumping with low-timers, etc. I go home because I am blessed to still be married to my best friend after 17 years, and I am the father of a teenage son and 11 year old daughter. I get to have my hobby and my family too.

People skydive for different reasons, and they get into teaching for different reasons as well. I respect others who do what I do strictly for the money or other reasons that differ from mine. Since I don't judge them I am able to have great relationships with them and on occasion share a skydive with them as well.

I do a lot of freebie tandems and AFF for friends, and my fellow staff members do the same for me. Most times the value I get out of a skydive goes way beyond the money I get paid for it.

Arrive Safely

John

[Deuce 1]

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I wouldn't even be able to count all the fingers on one hand the number of professional skydivers that work at the DZ where I do most of my jumps that can be seen doing anything other than paid jumps.

That's too bad.. We usually fill a King Air staff sunset load at Byron. We may have been doing work jumps most of the day but when the work is done, most of us still love to skydive.

I think we're lucky like that at Byron, Roy. At most other places I've seen, the pro staff doesn't mix with the upjumpers because the "school" for AFF and tandem is removed from where everybody else is.

Honestly, I can only think of a couple of Tandem, AFF and video people at Byron who split when the work is done. We're really lucky like that. The number of students anywhere else that have been on a 14 way sunset jump when they had 28 jumps is probably statistically zero.

Steve, the love of the sport is something that has to be worked at. It's funny. After 10 tandems I can be pretty whooped and ready to go home, but a hybrid or speed star to end the day really recharges the batteries for fun jumping.

Slotperfect? Agreed on all points. During the summer I often don't make sunset load, cause it puts me home too late. It's funny to look forward to the end of Daylight Savings because it means I get to do sunset loads and still be home in time for dinner.

[Skyflyer1 0]

For me Skydiving is not a job and it never will be. I've had my aff rating for 2 years now. For me its just something on the side. I am first and formost a 4way Formation Skydiver. I like to be on teams that are commited to doing 200-300 training jumps/ year. Thats ussually 1-2 training camps per month. During the other weekends I might be found doing some AFF if I choose, but I'm not on any rotation at any dropzone. Sometimes a DZ calls and ask if I can come and help out and if I can and am free, I ussually do. However I'm just as likely to say "No, I've got plans this weekend but thanks for the offer". Some weekends i go and do nothing but Hop N Pops.

The other advantage I have is my regular job allows me the freedom to not be tied to making income from skydiving. In addition I often bring my own students to the DZ and just work with them during the day (GT Skydiving Club) and donate my pay back to the student to reduce their cost.

So I would say AFF is what you make. If you want to be doing it every weekend all weekend long as your JOB then yes its a job. If its just something you enjoy while helping to subsidize no revenue jumps then it will never be a job, because you don't have to do it.

Jonathan Bartlett
AFFI

[Icon134 0]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone I have a long way to go but I also don't see why I can't keep it from becoming a job.

Mostly I want to get a coach/aff rating to bring an element of teaching into my sport (helping newbies like me... ) but I've seen at least one person have what started as a fun aspect become more of a job... and I don't want to become that person.

Scott

btw: Jonathan, thanks for the weight belt loan at the last GSL...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[Ultimateflite 0]

I couldn't help but notice that most of the replies were from people who have, and I appologise, low jump numbers.
I've been in the sport for 8 years and have over 4000 jumps. I've been a skydiving coach for 7 years and an AFF-I for, lets see Ahh! 4 years. I have nothing but pure pleasure from watching skydivers learn and improve. It's what teaches you to be better. Correct! I love it! Oh! And after doing 10-15 jumps a day we get tired and yes we do go home after jumping.

All limitations are self imposed

[Deuce 1]

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I couldn't help but notice that most of the replies were from people who have, and I appologise, low jump numbers.

Hmmm. Looked like every instructor had over 1000 jumps.

The total number of skydivers with your numbers is statistically about zero. The number with over 1000 jumps is probably the 99th percentile.

When you got your AFF rating 4 years ago, and your coaches rating after your first year, did you think you had low jump numbers? What amount of jumps entitles an instructor to an opinion? 2000? 3000? You must really feel like you are hanging out with the short-bus skydivers when you jump with folks with less than 500!

I'll have to think about quitting if getting to 4000 jumps is going to make me seem so condescending.

If I missed your point, I apologize. If your point is that me, Remi, Roy, JB, and John don't have enough experience to profer advice, then I fart in your general direction.

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[bob.dino 0]

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If your point is that me, Remi, Roy, JB, and John don't have enough experience to profer advice, then I fart in your general direction.

I read Latitia's message as being "you guys probably haven't been instructors long enough to have burned out".

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I couldn't help but notice that most of the replies were from people who have, and I appologise, low jump numbers.

Good god, everyone except the person who started this thread has at least 1000+ jumps. I know I haven't been in this sport all that long, and I definitely know that I still have tons to learn in it and shouldn't be confused as one of the sports more experienced characters. But to call us all low-timers just goes to show what sort of ego you likely have of yourself. I can't wait to grow up to be cool like you. In the meantime I will continue to jump, continue to learn, hopefully I'll continue to have a lot of fun along the way and not mess myself up.

I have a question for you. Do you only teach students or do you jump with low-timers as well. And if you do jump with low-timers, do you pay your own way or do you expect them to pay for your jump. If you do indeed jump with low-timers and pay your own way, then my hat goes off to you. But if you only jump with people when they pay your way, then you're exactly the type of person I'm referring to. I call them selfish. Whatever happened to giving back to the sport and jumping with people off of student status but who still need help?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[km7 0]

Hi. I appologise about my english i will try my bst, please I would like to know how weigh does a ball to jump with has to have? i want to jump with the ball and make relative work not head down.

can you unser me please

regards from bolivia

Blue sky
gabriel

Bolivia??? Skydive there??? let´s do it!!!!

[tfelber 0]

From the few posts on this subject I read I see people classifying it more in the realm of does it seem like work or not. I have very relevant experience with whether or not something you enjoy becomes a job if you need more background.

I look at skydiving as something I do for enjoyment. Meaning if it's not enjoyable than I don't do it. If I was working as a AFFI, TI, or videographer and I made a jump in the morning but decided I would rather drink beer the rest of the day instead of jump I believe my job would be in danger. After all, the DZO is relying on me for whatever job I am doing to satisfy the demands of the customer.

However, if I'm a fun jumper and decide after a couple of jumps I want to go home and spend some time with my son or start drinking becase I'm tired of waiting on the weather, than so be it... No one to answer to. Also, if I wake up and don't feel like going to the DZ or feel like sleeping later I'm not going to bitched slapped when I do get to the DZ.

That's the reason I haven't pursued making money skydiving. Being around new jumpers is really cool, but right now it's not something I choose to do.

[DanglesOZQld 0]

QUOTE - "So I guess you're right, those of us who aren't privelaged enough (or liked enough) to get paid to skydive think this sucks. I hope I never turn into one of those people who only jump when they get paid to jump"

-Firstly, before committing to jumping for a career full time get as many skills as possible. Basically this includes AFF, Outside video and Tandem with Handcam as an absolute minimum in most countries.

-Also re the quote above those who do work full time at skydiving often cannot AFFORD to do fun jumps with others as much as those with a "real" job who mostly only turn up on the weekends.

I personally do not treat my position as "just a job" and try to give back more than what the sport has given me but often that is just not possible. I still fun jump as my dropzone offers fun jumps for staff at a discounted rate.

THERE ARE A LOT MORE REASONS THAN PEOPLE THINK OTHER THAN JUST FULL TIMERS BEING SNOBS OR ONLY WANTING TO JUMP FOR MONEY NOT FOR FUN. BSBD! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"