Would you let a manufacturer assemble and pack your gear?

[MikeForsythe 0]

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And yet there are stories on this board about manufacturing mistakes, rigging mistakes and so on. Do you just not take any of that into account?

Yes I did.

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No it's not. When my car quits, I step out of it and call a tow truck.

Oh, please LOL. That would be like me saying that a missed zig zag on a corner could be fixed when I found it. Either one (car vs. containers) can and has killed people, or are you saying that no one ever dies from an auto defect?

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Point is, if it was missed in the QC process and the same person were packing the rig (as happens) or were supervising the pack job (as happens), it may not have been (and hasn't in some of the cases I've seen.)

QC is separate.

The bottom line is for every factory mistake you make claims of I could name a non-factory mistake. This has become nothing more than a silly argument.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[DanglesOZQld 0]

It's your ass on the line so I would want to pack the main myself and have a good look at the whole setup before jumping it. There are a lot of so called experts around but with the case of a main (not really the point of this post) I would re pack it myself.

I had a Bt series Pro 120 sent to me from a friend that I jumped that was a bloody hard opening. I know the guy and he would have packed it as per the manual to the letter.....have packed it very differently since and had ZERO bad openings.
ALSO have jumped the same canopy for nearly 2,000 jumps now and it has always opened on heading and been a great video canopy.
(Worst opening was 13 secs after filming a tandem - will send to anyone with broadband who is interested.)

FIRST reline was also 1,600 jumps....wel overdue though!

The canopy manufacturers would probably freak if I told them that the pack consisted of not Quartering at all and having the four outer cells rolled equally into the centre cell just like a lot of student canopies.......

A mate had a Stiletto having REALLY bad (Off heading) openings and we packed it the same way and all of a sudden they were cool. Don't go by just what the canopy manufacturer states in the manual : be prepared to play a little with the way it is packed but always seek advice from others with the same type of canopy as to what they do when packing their own.

The Blue Track in the PRO SERIES pre Springo was in fact known better as the BLUE SMACK as it was opening rather hard to some not used to varying the pack method. Since then Crossfire 2's have been coming onto the scene in a big way and damn they are nice canopies for outside video work (Soft long openings etc.....not many that open hard even with poor packing ;)

BSBD!! -Mark.

"A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!"

[Trae 1]

One of the worst feelings I've had re getting new gear is the feeling that some-one has already jumped it.

When I buy new I want brand fresh and new...straight from the manufacturers... not jumped by some 'test' pilot.

If it 's put together by the people who made it that's ok..... I'll be dumping both canopies and checking everything well before it gets anywhere near jumping.

I know some people who haven't been near a DZ sometimes make canopies ,hardware and containers.

Most people I know feel very similarly about this . It's such a pleasure to closely inspect the usually magnificent work done on modern equipment...every stitch if possible.

Cheers

[billvon 2,400]

> One of the worst feelings I've had re getting new gear is the feeling
>that some-one has already jumped it.

Hmm. Pre-jumped is pre-tested. And since most of the damage to any canopy is done by packing rather than jumping, there's not much difference between getting a packed but unjumped rig vs an unpacked and pre-jumped rig. But to each his own.

[hookitt 0]

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I know some people who haven't been near a DZ sometimes make canopies, hardware and containers.

Does that matter? Most production sewers aren't riggers anyway especially canopy builders.

Hardware is hardware. The people at DJ associates are metal workers.

Canopies are fabric cut out from a predetermined pattern then sewn in a specific manner. Containers are also cut out from a predetermined pattern and sewn together in a specific manner.

"Rosa from Salinas" can out sew almost every master rigger on the planet, so as long as the designer shows her how to put it together, you would never know that the person has never made a skydive.

Make sense?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Squeak 17]

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I love my Wings, and I trust Ankie. She had all my stuff put together and shipped to the location I would be using the gear for the first time.

Again, I trust Ankie, but I don't know who at her company packed my reserve, and I know and love my rigger (Yes, HooknSwoop is the best). After I jumped my new gear for a weekend and then headed back to my home state, I called Hook, and set up a time for him to repack my reserve. Naturally he didn't find anything wrong, but it was peace of mind for me.

That don't make much sense to me Mar, you don't trust the reserve pack but you jumped the rig anyway??

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Trae 1]

I suppose there is some benefit to having a brand new canopy pre-tensioned some-how. If highly experienced factory test jumpers did this by hopping and popping then it might not have the same undesirable feeling about it. Perhaps that would be a way to increase quality control .

Then again if manufacturing QC is up to scratch ....why?

Putting a brand new canopy together and kiting it is a distinct pleasure I'd prefer not to deny myself...and that first hop n pop is just such a buzz knowing you're the first to see it open and the first to fly it around.

I've known some places where the DZSO will insist on being the "1st" to jump a new type of canopy. This appears to be hoggin' others (paid for )pleasure to me ....a bit like some- one pre-testin your gal for you..

cheers

[hookitt 0]

Where do you come up with this stuff

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[flyangel2 2]

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I love my Wings, and I trust Ankie. She had all my stuff put together and shipped to the location I would be using the gear for the first time.

Again, I trust Ankie, but I don't know who at her company packed my reserve, and I know and love my rigger (Yes, HooknSwoop is the best). After I jumped my new gear for a weekend and then headed back to my home state, I called Hook, and set up a time for him to repack my reserve. Naturally he didn't find anything wrong, but it was peace of mind for me.

That don't make much sense to me Mar, you don't trust the reserve pack but you jumped the rig anyway??

Go back and re-read what I wrote. Where did it say that I didn't trust the pack job? I stated that I didn't know who packed the reserve, but that's not saying that I didn't trust them. My comfort level went way up once Derek re-packed it and gave it the okay. It was peace of mind for me that I was looking for.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Squeak 17]

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I love my Wings, and I trust Ankie. She had all my stuff put together and shipped to the location I would be using the gear for the first time.

Again, I trust Ankie, but I don't know who at her company packed my reserve, and I know and love my rigger (Yes, HooknSwoop is the best). After I jumped my new gear for a weekend and then headed back to my home state, I called Hook, and set up a time for him to repack my reserve. Naturally he didn't find anything wrong, but it was peace of mind for me.

That don't make much sense to me Mar, you don't trust the reserve pack but you jumped the rig anyway??

Go back and re-read what I wrote. Where did it say that I didn't trust the pack job? I stated that I didn't know who packed the reserve, but that's not saying that I didn't trust them. My comfort level went way up once Derek re-packed it and gave it the okay. It was peace of mind for me that I was looking for.

I read it correct the 1st timeIf you needed it repacked for your "peace of mind" why did you jump it in the 1st place,

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Eule 0]

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Would you let a manufacturer assemble and pack your gear?

MikeForsythe:
Yes, without hesitation. That is like saying would you let the car manufacture assemble your car?

I would submit that a new car is not exactly equivalent to new gear. If you had to go to the car factory
and drive the car off the end of the assembly line yourself, it would be closer. Most cars are driven by
a human off of the end of the assembly line, over a bumpy surface to check for rattles and loose parts,
and then parked. (An acquaintance had this job; he once drove a new pickup truck halfway down the
bumpy road, glanced iin the outside mirror, and noticed that the bed had turned about 90 degrees...
the bed bolts had been omitted.) A little later, someone drives the car onto a truck, train car, or even
a boat. If it goes by train or boat, someone else drives it from the train car or boat onto a truck. When
the truck gets to the dealer, someone drives the car off the truck and into the shop, where protective
stickers get removed, some exterior trim items are installed, etc - it's another chance for someone to
look over the car. While it's true that nobody has taken it up to 120 and slammed on the brakes, the
car has been "jumped" (driven) enough to expose any really bad problems with the brakes, steering, etc.

As you can see, I am a n00b and a completely new set of gear is probably a ways off for me. Having
read this thread and thought about it, I think that when I do buy new gear, I may ask for it to be
assembled, but not packed. The first reason is very simple: I want to make sure they didn't accidentally
give me a Teatowel 70 when I ordered a Bigboy 250! If the rig came packed, opening up the main to
verify it isn't a big deal, but opening up the reserve would incur a reserve repack. Against the cost of
a complete new rig, this isn't a lot of money, but why pay it if you don't have to? I would compare
the assembly with the available manuals, and inspect the stitching, lines, etc by myself, making a list of
questions. Then I'd take it to a rigger and let him or her inspect the assembly and the equipment - after
this, we'd go down my list of questions. Then I'd have the rigger pack it, and then I'd jump it.
If the only two options are "completely assembled and packed" and "completely unassembled", I'd still
inspect the components myself, but probably involve the rigger sooner to help with the assembly.

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Trae:
One of the worst feelings I've had re getting new gear is the feeling that some-one has already jumped it.
When I buy new I want brand fresh and new...straight from the manufacturers... not jumped by some
'test' pilot.

I recall reading a magazine article in the 286 era where the author had ordered a complete computer
system in parts. He was looking forward to being the first person to assemble it, and was mad when
the parts arrived and he found out the supplier had assembled and run them before shipping. Some of
this, I think, isn't even because you think the supplier might have done it wrong. It's just that it's _fun_
to take a pile of parts and assemble a working machine out of it - computer, parachute, whatever. It's
part of what you're buying when you buy something unassembled.

Eule

[RhondaLea 3]

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Well? Do you feel that confident or would you want an independant rigger to examine ther work done to ensure QC was doing their job?


Edit: Assume the gear is either brand new, or has been to the manufacturer for major repair/service.

I want to change my answer.

The best thing to do is take one's rig in all its myriad parts and give it to the rigger of your choice to put it together and pack it up for you. I think you should stay and get some education for yourself in the process--a complete review of the rig and other components, a lesson on how to inspect the rig after each jump, all that.

If, however, you're not going to bother to do all this, you might as well just leave it to the manufacturer as to have an independent rigger do the work.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[slotperfect 7]

This is certainly personal preference.

I have jumped a complete system assembled and packed, both main and reserve, with confidence because of my long history with that manufacturer.

When I ordered my last complete rig, I assembled and packed it myself. I found one small blemish in the nose of the reserve, no structural integrity issues, but the manufacturer replaced it right away without hesitation. That being said, my pre-assembly inspection provided one last quality control inspection.

For those of you on the fence, gather as much information as you can, then you can make an informed decision.

Arrive Safely

John

[FallingAngel 0]

At this point in my skydiving career I would not let a manufacturer assemble and pack my gear considering the fact that I am a rigger and qualified to do it myself. In the end, I am responsible for the gear and in this sport it doesn't hurt to double check things. Stuff happens, manufacturers can be busy and unfortunately might miss something and it takes nothing but my time to assemble it myself, and I like doing it, and then I have an extra sense of security. But even if I wasn't a rigger, I would still want one more check before it was all assembled. A side note, after I got my canopy relined from someone I trust, I still checked it myself before I packed it and jumped it.

IMO, while you should have trust in your rigger or the manufacturer since they are supposed to be the professionals and experts, you should still ask questions if something doesn't seem right to you. If asked in a constructive way, the rigger will mostlikely not mind explaining. If you don't ask, at best, nothing was wrong and now you're a little more educated, at worst, you might get hurt.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

About 20 yrs or so ago, Craig Fronk had a new rig arrive fully assembled by the Mfr. He was on some team or other and in a hurry to jump. Well, the main was on backward, but it did give him a lot of confidence in the reserve system that worked quite well.