Jumping Restrictions near Denver

[DickMcMahon 0]

Fort Morgan Times
Council prohibits skydiving at airport
By REBECCA DUDLEY

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 -

Brush City Council issued a cease and desist order to the principals at Denver Skydivers during a special meeting Wednesday.

The order was a preemptive strike after rumors of a large weekend jump reached the ears of council members.

According to observers, while several jumpers were seen on the airport property packing parachutes over the weekend, and several planes flew in and out, no jumpers were spotted on city land. However, some jumpers were seen drifting down south of Highway 71, landing on privately owned property.

Council, noting its responsibility on behalf of city taxpayers who are the owners of the Brush Municipal Airport, issued the order prohibiting all skydiving operations, including the operation of any jump plane and the landing of jumpers, exterior storage of automobiles, recreational vehicles and other items and the discharging of any firearms.

The order was issued, specifically, to include Air Brush Inc., Denver Skydivers, Colorado Sky Sports, Fortner Enterprises, Fuel Odyssey Inc., Fluid Odyssey Inc., Randall Fortner, Ralph Williams, Karen Fortner and any other subsidiary or affiliated entity or person, individual or guest.

Fortner and Williams are former partners in Air Brush, which was the fixed base operator for the Brush airport, and in Denver Skydivers. However, because the operations agreement they held with the city was terminated June 6 when Williams and Fortner were unable to produce proof of liability insurance as was required in the agreement, their only tie to the airport is now as leaseholder on a hangar.

Council also instructed Assistant City Administrator Karen Schwinke to notify Denver Flight Service of the new order prohibiting skydiving at the Brush Municipal Airport and to report any violations of the order.
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Website: Dick’s Stuff

The reason skydivers party so much at the end
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[diverds 0]

Sounds like a possible access issue. I wonder if they have contacted USPA? They have a fund for that.

-Dave

Skydive Radio

[justinb138 0]

I belive there is already a discussion on this somewhere on here...

[mjosparky 3]

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However, because the operations agreement they held with the city was terminated June 6 when Williams and Fortner were unable to produce proof of liability insurance as was required in the agreement, their only tie to the airport is now as leaseholder on a hangar.

If this liability insurance is required of all tenets of the airport then it sounds like the City was within their rights to prohibit the operations.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mgw 0]

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Sounds like a possible access issue. I wonder if they have contacted USPA? They have a fund for that.

Very interesting that you said that. The uspa regional director UNKNOWN called To talk about the reopening of Our DZ. She Was asked what was going on and she mentioned the cease and desist order was given and that it would be putting our Group membership at risk. Now really Shouldn't they be helping us javascript:%20addTag('crazy') Just so we all know there are always rumors and truth and lie's but this Kind of Bureaucracy is something we have dealt with all winter and summer. We just want our DZ back

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[diablopilot 2]

If that operation can't meet the requirements of the airport governing agency, they can't operate. Seems simple.


Now as to other incidents at that local, well if one is trying to operate under the radar, they probably should reigh in the outragious behavior of some of their customers.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Now really Shouldn't they be helping us javascript:%20addTag('crazy') Just so we all know there are always rumors and truth and lie's but this Kind of Bureaucracy is something we have dealt with all winter and summer. We just want our DZ back

Isn't this the same DZ that wanted to know: "Anyone know how to rescend a Regional Director? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1482831;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;?

So let me get this right. You get caught using BASE rigs out of the jump plane, get mad that the RD investigates and now are mad that they aren't doing something about getting the DZ re-opened? If I was her, I wouldn't want to help get the DZ that caused me so many headaches back open.

Like JP, if the DZ is meeting the airport's requirements, then there should be no problem opening the DZ. Do you want the RD to meet the airport's requirements for you?

Derek

[kelpdiver 2]

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issued the order prohibiting all skydiving operations, including the operation of any jump plane and the landing of jumpers, exterior storage of automobiles, recreational vehicles and other items and the discharging of any firearms.

how did guns enter the equation?! WTF have you guys been doing out there?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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WTF have you guys been doing out there?

Anything they want, which seems to come back to haunt them.

Derek

[diablopilot 2]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1830402#1830402

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kelpdiver 2]

trap/skeet sounds like a fun thing during cloud holds. Otherwise I'm not sure where it fits into the beer light timeline.

[flyangel2 2]

Years ago I was a very strong supporter of Denver Skydivers.

Over the years things have changed out there. I am sad to say that I won't be supporting them. It seems they think they are untouchable and can do anything they want. I don't know the facts, but it's looking like once again they have been shut down.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[PhreeZone 15]

Skeet/Trap does not fit into the operational design of a public airport though. I can't think of another airport in the US that allows you to pop up a shooting range when ever there is a layer of clouds...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riddler 0]

This is not an airport access issue. The airport has required airport insurance since the beginning of the DZ, and beginning with last year, they were unable to get insurance. So the airport has requested that they not open. The two owners of Denver Skydivers (Williams and Fortner) have parted ways more than a year ago, and one owner (Fortner) started Colorado Sky Sports in Canon City.

Colorado Sky Sports held an event there last weekend, and apparently, there is still some issue with insurance, which caused the city to react and cease and desist skydiving operations.

I'm not directly involved, so I can't testify that any of the above is true and accurate.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[kelpdiver 2]

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Skeet/Trap does not fit into the operational design of a public airport though. I can't think of another airport in the US that allows you to pop up a shooting range when ever there is a layer of clouds...

Seems to work out ok at Skydance, which uses Yolo County Airport. In between the main landing field and the student oriented 'Barn' landing field a half mile to the north is a large gun range, complete with ponds and trees. Non swoopers go overhead on final approach if the wind is blowing to the north.

[flyangel2 2]

I've been to Skydance, I didn't think the gun range was located on the airport property.

I've been to the DZ in question in the past and have seen weapons being fired while on airport property.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[kelpdiver 2]

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I've been to Skydance, I didn't think the gun range was located on the airport property.

No, I think it's owned by the gun club. But the distance from it to airport property is a two lane road. Or less if the LZ is part of airport property. Then it's separated only by a fence.

There are some ducks there that better not ever migrate again. The sound of gunfire doesn't faze them in the least.

[flyangel2 2]

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I've been to Skydance, I didn't think the gun range was located on the airport property.

No, I think it's owned by the gun club. But the distance from it to airport property is a two lane road. Or less if the LZ is part of airport property. Then it's separated only by a fence.

There are some ducks there that better not ever migrate again. The sound of gunfire doesn't faze them in the least.

But it's not on airport property. I think this is where the questions come up out at Brush. Can you fire weapons on airport property?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[diablopilot 2]

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Skeet/Trap does not fit into the operational design of a public airport though. I can't think of another airport in the US that allows you to pop up a shooting range when ever there is a layer of clouds...

Seems to work out ok at Skydance, which uses Yolo County Airport. In between the main landing field and the student oriented 'Barn' landing field a half mile to the north is a large gun range, complete with ponds and trees. Non swoopers go overhead on final approach if the wind is blowing to the north.

You got a bit of a point. However the Yolo Sportsman's Club is not acctually on airport property, and is well removed from the airstrip.

It's also designed well as a proper shooting range with burms, and the orientation of the ranges. Just don't land there.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Spizzzarko 0]

It all starts several years back with the Bandits out at Canon City Co. There were several DZ's in the state at the time. Mile Hi, Brush, Calhan, and the bandits at Canon. The Bandits always had a "We do what we want" attitude. They even printed up t-shirts advocating this cavalier attitude. Back to the history lesson. There was a division of jumpers at Calhan, and a seperate DZ was started out at Canon city. Calhan eventually shut down, and the two dz's at Canon began battling it out. Two of the bandits at Canon bought out Brush from it's owners and a lot of the bandits moved up there. There was still a small contingency of bandits at Canon, but Skydive the Rockies began to reign supreme out there. Everything settled down for awhile, and then the two business partners (bandits) who ran Brush had a rather nasty falling out with each other, and split. One of them continued to run the DZ for awhile, but Brush finally shut down, and moved back to the original bandit dZ back at canon city. The owner that left Brush first started working at Skydive the rockies, and the other was at Skip's (Skip owns the original bandit dz out at Canon. Skip didn't earn the knick names "Skip the stupid pilot" "Skip the stupid A&P" or "Skip the stupid rigger" by not trying to be stupid, he's just that way. Skip always seems to survive his tragedies. I can just imagine after the Nuclear hollocaust, that there is going to be cock roaches, rats and Skip, but all of this is a different story. PM me if you want to here some of his dumber exploits.). Now Randy Fortner is trying to get back into Brush, but it loks like they pissed the city off by "Doing what they wanted". They must have done some pretty heinous stuff because the city of Brush is a shit hole farming community. It has a general smell of cow shit because of stock yards around the DZ (you can smell it in freefall). So this is your history lesson for the day. I hope you enjoyed it.

[mikieB 0]

First of all the cease and desist order was filed by a city committee, not a court of law, which makes the point mute. Secondly the question of insurance is non-existent seeing how the lease agreement makes no stipulations about that specific policy. Thirdly we are the only people on that airport, located in the county of Brush, which makes it totally legal to shoot trap and skeet and other firearms if we so desire (as long as the firearm is being discharge in a safe direction away from persons or property). The sheriff has told us on numerous occasions that the shotguns are ok. I wonder why so many people, that have never even set foot in Brush care so much about the inner workings of our operation. Lastly I wish you could just shut up for a few minutes derek, Im sorry that you don't jump anymore, nor do you agree with ANYTHING, EVER But it is really not my problem they everyone at Brush hated you. So don't take it too hard when nobody cares what you have to say.
The problem I have is the USPA butting in on tennant issues and threatening action when their very reason for existance, the reason we all pay membership is for them to help us out, not fight us. Its not our fault we work in a town with dumb hicks, that can't even read a lease agreement, running our city
If we could just get our feet on the ground for two minutes without being attacked by the city and our regional director we could have a pretty sweet place to jump. But until people can mind their own business it can't happen very soon.

confucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot.

[mattjw916 2]

So is Brush open again? I didn't get a chance to jump there in the winter before it closed. I've jumped at Skip's out of Randy's KA and had a great time! Sure you probably won't make 10 jumps a day (even if Skip wakes you up with his cutting edge static line instruction at 8am ) but it was certainly fun and they and everyone there was totally cool and down-to-earth, not a skygod in sight. I wish it was closer so I go there more often to break-up the monotony.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[flyangel2 2]

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But it is really not my problem they everyone at Brush hated you. So don't take it too hard when nobody cares what you have to say.

I use to jump at Brush, and I still like Derek.

For all your sake, I really do hope that Randy works it out with the city of Brush.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mikieB 0]

And YES it is legal to discharge firearms in the county of Brush, which includes the The Brush Municipal Airport. The Lease agreement names Denver Skydivers the FBO (fixed Base operator) of the airport. Basically what that means is when you lease property it becomes "private" property in a way. That means that on that property that you lease you can partake in any activity that is not illegal. The city has a headache about the guns because the local farmer mcnasty is such a pain in their ass that they would just wish we dont shoot. THE CITY HOWEVER COULD CARE LESS THAT HE HOSTS TRAP SHOOTS WHERE THE TARGETS AND SHOT LANDS IN OUR LANDING AREA.

PS Oh and mary, I thank god every day that you do NOT support us. If one good thing has come out of this, it is that.

confucious say: he who stands on top of toilet gets high on pot.

[coloradosky 0]

Okay I think its finally time to add a few facts to the discussion.

First off, on the access issues, the city intitially revoked an operating agreement due to a percieved deficiency in the DZ's insurance coverage. However, instead of having meetings to discuss the language of the lease with the DZ management, the city cut off all communication (inappropriately) with the existing DZO at the behest of the former partner. It has taken several months, some court decisions, and many city meetings to get to the point we are at now, which is essentially that the DZ is in compliance with all the terms of its lease and operating agreement. The city is dragging its feet in response. The cease and dissist order was issued by the city council in order to attempt to delay the reopening while they searched for possible venues to establish "rules" in regards to the airport. It is not a lawful order because it was not issued by a court. The PD and Sheriffs department are in agreement that the order is unenforceable. What would you do if your landlord told you that you were evicted but could not provide court documents and then told you that you were still responsible for your lease? We will continue to operate until we are served with actual court papers, at which time we will gladly argue our case. We look forward to our day in court.

As far as firearms go, recreational shooting has always been allowed on airport property. It is completely lawful, and no one has ever been charged for any firearms violations. The sherriffs department has encouraged us to reposition some of our shooting areas for noise purposes and we were in the process of making range improvements (berms, backstops, steel targets,etc) last winter when we were forced to leave. We also made an agreement to notify them ahead of time when we fire our canon (its smoothbore and muzzleloading therefore not subject to NFA regulations).

With regards to the USPA, we have never asked them for any help, and aren't expecting any. In a perfect world this is the kind of thing the USPA would be good for but thats not the case. Any alleged BSR violations are a completely seperate issue and if you don't know the internal detail of the handling of the matter, you should refrain from making any assumption.

Denver Skydiver/ Colorado Skysports has long held the position that skydivers are a brotherhood. We support skydiving and all the DZ's in the state. We wouldn't want to see any of them close down because that would only reduce the number of choices we have as skydivers. I don't know why it is so difficult to jump out of an airplane at a deserted airport in the middle of no where Colorado, but apparently there are a few skydivers who just don't share that view. Sorry the town sometimes smells like shit, but we like it and so do a lot of other people. Its a free country, if you don't like the smell, or the atmosphere, or anything else you don't have to come, but as skydivers we should all be supportive of any place that offers people the chance to jump out of an airplane.