Freefall stability

[etannenb 0]

Hi, I am not a skydiver, I have only done two tandems so far, but now I'm thinking of doing the AFF course. I have two questions, though:

(1) Is there an idiot-proof way for recovering from a spin? I have been told that solo skydiving is very different than tandem, and I was guaranteed that I will spin at some point in freefall. It seems like every year there's someone that dies because of an unstable freefall. I don't want that statistic to be me .

(2) Also, did anyone ever have family issues because of their decision to skydive? How did you get your family to come around?

Thanks,

Manny

[woodpecker 0]

1) yes....arch, relax, heal taps

2) Some family members never come around. They just see the news and know of the dangers. After you survive a number of jumps, they usually stop worrying as much....but not completely.

Since you havent done your first AFF jump yet, dont get too concerned with spins. Just get out of the plane and go through the drills your instructors want you to complete. You have plenty of time to get to turns/spins.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[etannenb 0]

Ok, thanks for the info. Have a great weekend

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[woodpecker 0]

Let us know how your progression comes along.



blue skies

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[etannenb 0]

Will do. I'm slated to do the AFF course at Paradive (near Haifa, Israel) at the end of December (I'm traveling in the U.S. for most of November, so that's the most convenient time). Hopefully my family will be accepting enough of it to not cause too many problems (keeping my fingers crossed
Stay safe and have fun,

Manny

[EvilLurker 2]

I had some spinning issues when I started and I'll tell you how I stopped the spin successfully:

(1) Go into a delta position until the spin stops
(2) Go get a session in a wind tunnel and learn how to maintain a heading

(2) is a lot better solution than repeating AFF jumps, it saves money and frustration.

Good luck, buddy.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have been told that solo skydiving is very different than tandem, and I was guaranteed that I will spin at some point in freefall.

That guarantee is false. Sure it's different, but I never spun up and I was far from a prodigy in the air.

don't go looking for problems before they're there.

[etannenb 0]

Thanks. That's actually very reassuring. In any case, I think I've read enough about the sport now that it's simply a matter for me to just go ahead and do the %$!@-ing course . The main obstacle (other than fear) is getting family understanding for this decision (although at 27, it is within my legal rights to simply not pay attention to them ).

Take care!

[Andy9o8 0]

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The main obstacle (other than fear) is getting family understanding for this decision

The fact that you express this concern so strongly tells me that they're not going to understand. Why is the understanding of family (other than spouse; that's an exception) a prerequisite to an adult skydiving? By being codependent upon your family's approval of your choice, you are simply setting yourself up to allow them to control you. That's no way for an adult to live - your family should not have a veto on your life's choices, whether by guilt, tantrum, financial blackmail or anything else. Do not consult with them, either before or after AFF. Go out and do it. Then, if you must, present them with an accomplished fact. Make it clear you are not seeking their approval or even opinion, you are merely informing them. If they start being negative, tell them - as the 27 year old adult you are - that the conversation is over - and stick to your guns on this. It may be difficult at first, but the rewards of cutting the apron strings will last a lifetime.

[etannenb 0]

Well now I feel a bit embarrassed. What you write is definitely correct, and I did not mean to make this a bigger point than it is. My main question (and probably that's the only one I should have asked) was regarding freefall stability in a solo skydive. Regarding family, my plan is to take them to the dropzone several times before I start the course, to hopefully alleviate some of their fears. The final decision to do the course rests with me.

[mattjw916 2]

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Regarding family, my plan is to take them to the dropzone several times before I start the course, to hopefully alleviate some of their fears.

I wouldn't even do that, it won't help. A lot of "adult" things happen at dropzones, things they might not approve of if they are conservative. What do you think they would say if someone hooked it in and broke a femur while they were watching? I've landed next to ambulances on the landing area twice in my short time in sport. If they want to come I say fine, but I wouldn't invite them unless they ask.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[etannenb 0]

I think I have to at least give it a try, and hope for the best. Anyway, the only two dropzones in Israel, Skykef and Paradive, seem pretty restrictive: Hook turns are forbidden and you can't jump without an AAD. Paradive, where I'm planning to take the course, was founded by an ex-Israeli-army parachuting/skydiving instructor, so I heard that there's somewhat of a "military" mentality there (whether this is just a gimmick or actually makes the place safer than the average dropzone, I have no idea).

As far as I know, there was one guy that almost got killed a few years ago at Paradive, but the incident report on their website shows that it was entirely preventable: He borrowed his son's rig which used a pull-out deployment method that he wasn't very familiar with. He was doing some relative work, lost altitude awareness, only pulled at 2700', dropped the grip on the handle (guess he was used to throw-out), so the pilot chute got caught in the burble. He then didn't do anything for several seconds, and finally pulled the reserve ripcord at 600' (right around when the AAD fired). He had a hard landing but survived.

[falxori 0]

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the only two dropzones in Israel, Skykef and Paradive, seem pretty restrictive: Hook turns are forbidden and you can't jump without an AAD

not restrictive, simply safe.

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was founded by an ex-Israeli-army parachuting/skydiving instructor, so I heard that there's somewhat of a "military" mentality there

actually a F-16 pilot, but the mentality is not miletaristic at all. some of the instructors were also army JM, but that was only their entry point to the sport.
safety is a priority there and they do look after you a bit more than you would find in some other DZs.
just come and have fun. and you can bring the family, most of us do at some point...
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Mike111 0]

Family are cool with it, but as woodpecker said, arching and relaxing definately works.

Have fun on your course!!

[woodpecker 0]

And lets not forget to just have fun.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[Mike111 0]

Exactly, and of course, not forget to pull!!

[azureriders 0]

Search my posts and you will see that I have went through exactly what you are worried about. Four tandem progresion jumps, then an AFF with one instructor who was not able to give me a release in the air but released me to the next level. On to the second AFF jump, everything looked perfect, gave the instructor a nod for the release so I could do some turns and went into an immediate spin which became flat very quickly. WHAT NOW?? That was simple, keep your head and remember your training. You are taught to deal with these situations. The instructor attacked the spin, knocked me out of it briefly but was not able to redock at that time. I started to turn again but before I could get up any speed I deployed my main, looked up for the line twist (that some how were not there) and enjoyed a long canopy ride down from 10,000ft with a broke suspension line and sore legs.

The point is, I spun, I lived, and I am still jumping, and I love it. I have only had a chance to make two jumps since then, because of katrina, but their is alot of improvement and I can't wait to get up again.

Put your fears to rest and pay atention to your instructors, they will prepare you for what you need to know.

Arch, relax, and TOE taps. Not argueing with someone with more jumps than me, but I was taught that you can drop your knees and still do heal taps, but when you point your toes in for a toe tap you actually lift your knees, which is better.

[Jackpunx 0]

My buddy gave me some advise.. Im an over thinker.. if you don’t let your head get in the way.. our bodies already know how to fly.. Just relax and it will happen..
I’m new.. and go over and over again in my head what I needed to do to get through each level.. and EP's and this and that and what if..
as your going through AFF they teach us the stuff repeatedly that hopefully becomes seconded nature..
When I shut my head off.. I thought left.. and there I went.. I thought right.. there I went.. I just had to slow my head..
I only have a few solo's under my belt now.. but something happened when I stopped trying so hard..
its all about relaxing, smiling and listening to your instructor's
I was able to get through aff with out any repeats.. but.. I would have been ok if it hadn’t worked out like that..
Another thing I did was the wind tunnel.. I did it between level 3-4..
level 4 was a trip.. but level 5 is when I was able to turn off my brain and really enjoy the jumps.. every jump gets better and better..

[etannenb 0]

Wow, thanks for all the helpful advice guys. You're a pretty cool group of people

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[bob.dino 0]

Just so you know, the Search Posts link near the top of this page is really handy. There's a wealth of information in the archives of these forums - even on how to deal with recaltraint family

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[rj2163 0]

check out the jump number (I know shit at this point)....but I'm bored and bumbed out at the weeks of bad weather here so.....

solo jump - At my DZ we do 4 tandems before starting the AFF. There are lots of little overlapping bits on the Tandems so I found the transition to AFF first jump pretty seamless.

1. on one of my tandems the instructor had me "go big" immediately on exit and I think I was more stable off exit on my solo because I'd already experienced it. But that's totally at the discretion of your DZ and instructor.

2. I did my last tandem the same day as my first AFF jump (I did the ground school the night before) and just focused on relaxing and arching on the tandem so it was comfy for the solo.

3. My instructor always would say "you do in the air what you do on the ground". I was nervous so I'd mental image things a lot prior to jumping so on the plane I was mostly relaxing. Sometimes just before the door would open I'd think I was going to go blank but when the door opened things would just kick in and do exactly what I'd rehersed - I was really surprised.

But like the other said the whole trick is relax, arch and have fun - your body will follow. Talk about any concerns with your instructors, spins, if your nervous - whatever - they WILL prepare you. Don't get yourself worked up.

family - If you love it just do it and probably the best you can hope is that they tolerate it. If they don't, do it anyway but I wouldn't be in their face with it as I doubt they will change their mind. I agree with Matt, I don't know if dragging people out to the dz is a good idea if they are not into it.

I'm older than you and I don't know if it has anything to do with age. My family has really never given me a hard time about the things I've done for fun over the years but they sure were never enthusicastic. I do whatever and often tell them after the fact if an opportunity comes up. LOL - My parents thought my tandem video looked fun so I showed them one from a few weeks ago doing flips, rolls, tracking and stuff. My dad said absolutely nothing and my mom paused and said "well, thanks for sharing". WTF!? They just did't know what to say! Too funny! The rest of my family and friends are half and half.

they are just concerned and if they do ask questions I answer as directly and truthfully as i can and there are lots of threads on this site that deal with these types of questions.

[ctalk24 0]

Regarding family, it all depends on your relationship with them. Do you value their opinion so much that it alters your own? Are you scared that they will be mad at you and perhaps stop talking to you? Are you looking for ways to blame others for not taking the course because perhaps you don't really want to do it yourself? Do you simply desire everything to be on the up and up? I guess these are some questions to ask yourself, because it sucks having regrets in life, so make sure that you yourself are dying to do this (no pun intended) and then if you really want it, you will find a way to make it work, family or no family.

[VampireGirl 0]

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I have been told that solo skydiving is very different than tandem, and I was guaranteed that I will spin at some point in freefall.

That guarantee is false. Sure it's different, but I never spun up and I was far from a prodigy in the air.

don't go looking for problems before they're there.

I can agree with this one too! I never had spinning issues, and I'm not superwoman! How you perform in the air is directly related to what you think is going to happen. Get rid of negative thoughts, start AFF with an open mind and just enjoy it!

www.sneale-create.com

[ntrprnr 0]

Mom actually told me she couldn't support something that I could kill myself doing. Then she came out and watched my first tip-toe landing, gave me the biggest hug in the world, and smiled.

She still doesn't love it, but she accepts it. And she tells all her friends about it.

Dad sided with mom on this one, but secretly, I think he loves that I do it. :)

Photo: Mom hugging me after my landing.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[VampireGirl 0]

Such a gorgeous picture!

My Mom watched me do my very first tippy toe landing (jump 3) and she loved it too! She has always been supportive, but I never gave her any option to be otherwise, it's my life, my money and my decision.

Been trying to get my family to come and watch at the DZ for ages. Every summer I set up a weekend for them, but they never come. I suppose it would be boring for them, but I suppose they wouldn't really want to be there and witness it if something went wrong.

www.sneale-create.com