mikew02 0 #1 November 26, 2005 Hi everyone, I have become aware of a situation where an instructor has been teaching AFF with an expired USPA rating. I also suspect he has no 3rd party insurance and regularly jumps parachute equipment over reserve pack dates. Does anyone know what the ultimate consequences of this are in terms of the USPA? Do you all agree with me that as an Instructor you are meant to set an example to students that this sport is dangerous if not taken seriously? Do we need people like this in our sport? Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 November 26, 2005 I mostly care about student safety, and those issues do not necessarily compromise student safety. They are, however, a little tacky, if true. Is the DZO aware? If so, then I put most of the blame on the DZO. I doubt I'd decide to become the policeman for USPA, unless safety was compromised, then I might. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #3 November 26, 2005 If he wants to claim to be an AFF-I he needs to be a current AFF-I. IMO he is neither if his AFF-I rating is expired. Now if he was in the US and was no longer a USPA member, teaching and not claiming to be an AFF-I it is legal to do so. In your neck of the world is there National rules to consider?An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #4 November 26, 2005 QuoteHi everyone, I have become aware of a situation where an instructor has been teaching AFF with an expired USPA rating. --------------------------------------------------------- Is he unsafe ? Is he teaching poorly? Are you the USPA cops ? Just because a rating has expired does not change the quality of an instructor. A good USPA instructor will still be a good instructor although his rating has expired. bozo bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikew02 0 #5 November 26, 2005 No Bozo I am not the USPA cops. I just think that if someone is not responsible enough to keep their rating current how can you trust them to check a student's gear if they are that lax? We have a system for a reason and if you break it and that is deemed to be ok then what's the point in having a system in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites barrymaple 0 #6 November 26, 2005 How long was the instructor with out a rating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,651 #7 November 26, 2005 QuoteNo Bozo I am not the USPA cops. I just think that if someone is not responsible enough to keep their rating current how can you trust them to check a student's gear if they are that lax? We have a system for a reason and if you break it and that is deemed to be ok then what's the point in having a system in the first place? If you have proof that he violates the FARs then turn him in. All else is optional. I agree with bozo , letting a piece of paper expire does not change one's abilities.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikew02 0 #8 November 26, 2005 I believe he has been without a rating since feb 2004. I understand Bozo's point but never the less, the rules we have in this sport are here for a reason. Lets play safe hey? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #9 November 26, 2005 Is he instructing at a USPA DZ?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikew02 0 #10 November 26, 2005 He was at a USPA associated DZ, but not in the USA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #11 November 26, 2005 Quote No Bozo I am not the USPA cops. I just think that if someone is not responsible enough to keep their rating current how can you trust them to check a student's gear if they are that lax? Do you know why he let his official rating lapse? Perhaps it's an issue of finance, or even more likely, an issue of principal. Not sending his rating renewal FEE to the USPA doesn't make him a bad instructor, it doesn't automatically strip him of his skydiving ability, teaching skills, or safety awareness. Does it? Evaulate the instructor on his ability, not whether or not he sent his dues to the USPA. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flynskydive 0 #12 November 26, 2005 If he's jumping past the reserve repack date, and something were to happen, the pilot of the aircraft could potentially lose his license. That's FAA stuff, but a definite concern. USPA Strong T-I, AFF-I, Coach, Videographer/photographer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #13 November 26, 2005 I'll hazard a guess you and he are not the closest of friends. Is this really a safety issue first and foremost, or is it DZ politics that's lighting a candle under your butt? I suppose only you and he are in the best position to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE1036 0 #14 November 26, 2005 QuoteHe was at a USPA associated DZ, but not in the USA What if any is the repack cycle in the country that he is in? I spent two years abroad and did not pack my reserve even once.(sat aircondidtioned for almost 9 months of that time while I was using my BASE rig) The reserve pack cycle was designed when reserves were made with materials other than ripstop nylon. Besides from what I read USPA is petitioning the FAA for a waiver to the packcycle for UPSA members anyway, to research the validity of the current pack cycle.Daniel Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones Tasers - Pepper Spray - Stun Guns and more! www.dallassecuritysupply.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GoatBoy 0 #15 November 26, 2005 Following USPA guidelines is not manditory, it is up to the DZ if they want to be USPA members. The only thing that could be a problem with him not having a current rating is for his and the DZ's membership to the USPA. There is no federal regulation that regulates instructors. However, on the matter of the repack, that is breaking an FAR, there can be action taken on that. Flying Hellfish #31 "I'm not allowed to talk about it till after the trial" www.SkydiveTecumseh.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydog 2 #16 November 26, 2005 If it upsets you that much then why not name names? Reading DZ.com I also suspect this may be a long running dispute with the former AFF school that was at Lillo, and this post is a not too subtle attempt to discredit them. Or I may be wrong....... As a side note. I see on your web site that you claim to have BPA Instructors on staff, but according to your staff page, none hold any BPA Instructional ratings (FS Coach is not an Instructional rating in the sense you cannot sign anyone up according to the ops manual). So, unless you are going to do something formal about a lapsed rating and have documented proof of out of date kit, then people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And If you are wondering who I am, well no one of any import, just someone who can sometimes read between the lines. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 November 26, 2005 QuoteThe reserve pack cycle was designed when reserves were made with materials other than ripstop nylon. Actually it was made when reserves were made of nylon. It used to be 60-days before that. As for the original question, you have to understnad that this is skydiving. People don't really care about the rules, and by bringing this sort of thing up, you alienate yourself from the 'group'. Nothing is going to happen to them, people do AFF in the US without ever having had an AFFI rating everyday. Let it go, you'll be better off. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites redramdriver 0 #18 November 26, 2005 I think that the only way safety would be compromised would be a situation where it would be to late!So, you bring your beer? Its 5 o'clock somewhere POPS #9344 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #19 November 27, 2005 Quote*** As for the original question, you have to understnad that this is skydiving. People don't really care about the rules Some of us do, and I think that your comment is a reasonably silly statement Quote people do AFF in the US without ever having had an AFFI rating everyday. Let it go, you'll be better off. Derek I wonder how the people in the states go about maintaining consistant quality in instruction and equipment maintenance. It sounds like if you are not USPA affiliated you can do prety much what ever you want. That sounds scary to meYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 0 #20 November 27, 2005 He's in Spain. Is there a reason he would need a USPA rating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #21 November 27, 2005 QuoteIt sounds like if you are not USPA affiliated you can do prety much what ever you want. You can do pretty much what you want even if you are USPA affiliated. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikew02 0 #22 November 27, 2005 Take it easy skydog. I updated the page earlier. I guess I got my answer from the discussion above, thanks guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spoons 0 #23 November 27, 2005 i'm not sure, if it's a USPA affiliated dropzone then surely you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #24 November 27, 2005 QuoteI have become aware of a situation where an instructor has been teaching AFF with an expired USPA rating. I also suspect he has no 3rd party insurance and regularly jumps parachute equipment over reserve pack dates. If this is true, then the PIC should not take him up on loads providing he/she is aware of the situation. QuoteDoes anyone know what the ultimate consequences of this are in terms of the USPA? One could lose their USPA ratings for this type of alleged offense. QuoteDo you all agree with me that as an Instructor you are meant to set an example to students that this sport is dangerous if not taken seriously? Well of course we all agree with that. QuoteDo we need people like this in our sport? Mike Unfortunately, yes. I've seen a lot of off the wall stuff go on since i've been sky diving. Sometimes it's best to let the DZO and the S&TA do their jobs and have fun jumping. You could've discussed this situation with the alleged offender instead of dragging it in here. You would have gotten a warmer response than i expect you'll get now. Good Luck and Take Care.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bozo 0 #25 November 27, 2005 QuoteI believe he has been without a rating since feb 2004. I understand Bozo's point but never the less, the rules we have in this sport are here for a reason. Lreply] Some of the "rules" in this sport are money generating engines for USPA. I held a tandem rating for 15 years.......and an instructor rating for longer that that. Does the fact that I no longer chose to pay USPA their increasingly growing fees make me any less of a TM.....or an instructor? As for his repack cycles on his reserve....that is almost laughable. If you had any idea how many jumpers pencilpack reserves i'm afraid you would be shocked. bozzo bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mikew02 0 #5 November 26, 2005 No Bozo I am not the USPA cops. I just think that if someone is not responsible enough to keep their rating current how can you trust them to check a student's gear if they are that lax? We have a system for a reason and if you break it and that is deemed to be ok then what's the point in having a system in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barrymaple 0 #6 November 26, 2005 How long was the instructor with out a rating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #7 November 26, 2005 QuoteNo Bozo I am not the USPA cops. I just think that if someone is not responsible enough to keep their rating current how can you trust them to check a student's gear if they are that lax? We have a system for a reason and if you break it and that is deemed to be ok then what's the point in having a system in the first place? If you have proof that he violates the FARs then turn him in. All else is optional. I agree with bozo , letting a piece of paper expire does not change one's abilities.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikew02 0 #8 November 26, 2005 I believe he has been without a rating since feb 2004. I understand Bozo's point but never the less, the rules we have in this sport are here for a reason. Lets play safe hey? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #9 November 26, 2005 Is he instructing at a USPA DZ?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikew02 0 #10 November 26, 2005 He was at a USPA associated DZ, but not in the USA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #11 November 26, 2005 Quote No Bozo I am not the USPA cops. I just think that if someone is not responsible enough to keep their rating current how can you trust them to check a student's gear if they are that lax? Do you know why he let his official rating lapse? Perhaps it's an issue of finance, or even more likely, an issue of principal. Not sending his rating renewal FEE to the USPA doesn't make him a bad instructor, it doesn't automatically strip him of his skydiving ability, teaching skills, or safety awareness. Does it? Evaulate the instructor on his ability, not whether or not he sent his dues to the USPA. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flynskydive 0 #12 November 26, 2005 If he's jumping past the reserve repack date, and something were to happen, the pilot of the aircraft could potentially lose his license. That's FAA stuff, but a definite concern. USPA Strong T-I, AFF-I, Coach, Videographer/photographer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #13 November 26, 2005 I'll hazard a guess you and he are not the closest of friends. Is this really a safety issue first and foremost, or is it DZ politics that's lighting a candle under your butt? I suppose only you and he are in the best position to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE1036 0 #14 November 26, 2005 QuoteHe was at a USPA associated DZ, but not in the USA What if any is the repack cycle in the country that he is in? I spent two years abroad and did not pack my reserve even once.(sat aircondidtioned for almost 9 months of that time while I was using my BASE rig) The reserve pack cycle was designed when reserves were made with materials other than ripstop nylon. Besides from what I read USPA is petitioning the FAA for a waiver to the packcycle for UPSA members anyway, to research the validity of the current pack cycle.Daniel Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones Tasers - Pepper Spray - Stun Guns and more! www.dallassecuritysupply.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoatBoy 0 #15 November 26, 2005 Following USPA guidelines is not manditory, it is up to the DZ if they want to be USPA members. The only thing that could be a problem with him not having a current rating is for his and the DZ's membership to the USPA. There is no federal regulation that regulates instructors. However, on the matter of the repack, that is breaking an FAR, there can be action taken on that. Flying Hellfish #31 "I'm not allowed to talk about it till after the trial" www.SkydiveTecumseh.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #16 November 26, 2005 If it upsets you that much then why not name names? Reading DZ.com I also suspect this may be a long running dispute with the former AFF school that was at Lillo, and this post is a not too subtle attempt to discredit them. Or I may be wrong....... As a side note. I see on your web site that you claim to have BPA Instructors on staff, but according to your staff page, none hold any BPA Instructional ratings (FS Coach is not an Instructional rating in the sense you cannot sign anyone up according to the ops manual). So, unless you are going to do something formal about a lapsed rating and have documented proof of out of date kit, then people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And If you are wondering who I am, well no one of any import, just someone who can sometimes read between the lines. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #17 November 26, 2005 QuoteThe reserve pack cycle was designed when reserves were made with materials other than ripstop nylon. Actually it was made when reserves were made of nylon. It used to be 60-days before that. As for the original question, you have to understnad that this is skydiving. People don't really care about the rules, and by bringing this sort of thing up, you alienate yourself from the 'group'. Nothing is going to happen to them, people do AFF in the US without ever having had an AFFI rating everyday. Let it go, you'll be better off. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redramdriver 0 #18 November 26, 2005 I think that the only way safety would be compromised would be a situation where it would be to late!So, you bring your beer? Its 5 o'clock somewhere POPS #9344 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #19 November 27, 2005 Quote*** As for the original question, you have to understnad that this is skydiving. People don't really care about the rules Some of us do, and I think that your comment is a reasonably silly statement Quote people do AFF in the US without ever having had an AFFI rating everyday. Let it go, you'll be better off. Derek I wonder how the people in the states go about maintaining consistant quality in instruction and equipment maintenance. It sounds like if you are not USPA affiliated you can do prety much what ever you want. That sounds scary to meYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #20 November 27, 2005 He's in Spain. Is there a reason he would need a USPA rating? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #21 November 27, 2005 QuoteIt sounds like if you are not USPA affiliated you can do prety much what ever you want. You can do pretty much what you want even if you are USPA affiliated. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikew02 0 #22 November 27, 2005 Take it easy skydog. I updated the page earlier. I guess I got my answer from the discussion above, thanks guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #23 November 27, 2005 i'm not sure, if it's a USPA affiliated dropzone then surely you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #24 November 27, 2005 QuoteI have become aware of a situation where an instructor has been teaching AFF with an expired USPA rating. I also suspect he has no 3rd party insurance and regularly jumps parachute equipment over reserve pack dates. If this is true, then the PIC should not take him up on loads providing he/she is aware of the situation. QuoteDoes anyone know what the ultimate consequences of this are in terms of the USPA? One could lose their USPA ratings for this type of alleged offense. QuoteDo you all agree with me that as an Instructor you are meant to set an example to students that this sport is dangerous if not taken seriously? Well of course we all agree with that. QuoteDo we need people like this in our sport? Mike Unfortunately, yes. I've seen a lot of off the wall stuff go on since i've been sky diving. Sometimes it's best to let the DZO and the S&TA do their jobs and have fun jumping. You could've discussed this situation with the alleged offender instead of dragging it in here. You would have gotten a warmer response than i expect you'll get now. Good Luck and Take Care.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #25 November 27, 2005 QuoteI believe he has been without a rating since feb 2004. I understand Bozo's point but never the less, the rules we have in this sport are here for a reason. Lreply] Some of the "rules" in this sport are money generating engines for USPA. I held a tandem rating for 15 years.......and an instructor rating for longer that that. Does the fact that I no longer chose to pay USPA their increasingly growing fees make me any less of a TM.....or an instructor? As for his repack cycles on his reserve....that is almost laughable. If you had any idea how many jumpers pencilpack reserves i'm afraid you would be shocked. bozzo bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
