legal jump aircraft

[Misternatural 0]

What constitutes a legal jump from a legal aircraft in the US. Often I have wanted to ask a local pilot for a lift up to altitude at a nearby airport(un controlled, nice landing areas & lots of outs)whenever I see a plane that has a good exit door, pilot willing. Do I file a notam? call the command tower? Im sure this is a common question but I'm new here,and sometimes I just want to get some jumps in without having to drive for hours to a drop zone.....not that theres anything wrong with that.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[AndyMan 7]

The nutshell is that the aircraft must be certified for flight with the door removed. I believe there is still a list of such aircraft at the back of the SIM.

Often times the door becomes an integral part of the frame of the plane in flight, and you can not safely open or remove the door, except on the ground.

Once you found an aircraft that's able to fly safely and legally with the door open, then you would have to get permission of the owner of the intended landing area, and file a NOTAM. Your jump would also have to take place in Class 'D' or 'E' airspace, I believe- but I'm sure I'm about to be corrected.

The jump would likely be off a USPA DZ, so you wouldn't have the USPA third party insurance if you damaged something on landing. That may hinder your getting permission from the landowner.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

What constitutes a legal jump from a legal aircraft in the US. Often I have wanted to ask a local pilot for a lift up to altitude at a nearby airport(un controlled, nice landing areas & lots of outs)whenever I see a plane that has a good exit door, pilot willing. Do I file a notam? call the command tower? Im sure this is a common question but I'm new here,and sometimes I just want to get some jumps in without having to drive for hours to a drop zone.....not that theres anything wrong with that.

So is it the jump ship you are worried about being legal or all the surrounding issues?

Yes, you need to file a notam. You need to have permission from the airport manager if you are jumping over an airport. The pilot and you need to follow FAR 105 for jump ops. It's not impossible to get a friend to fly you now and again but there are a lot of things you should consider before doing it.

Is the plane rated for flying with the door removed? (I'm assuming you are not constructing an inflight door) Have you considered the potential snag points while climbing out? Is the pilot going to wear an emergency bailout rig?

The list can go on.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

The jump would likely be off a USPA DZ, so you wouldn't have the USPA third party insurance if you damaged something on landing. That may hinder your getting permission from the landowner.

_Am

Wait... USPA members aren't covered by third party liability if they jump at say Lodi? You sure about that? It's not a USPA GM. So what's the scoop?

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Wait... USPA members aren't covered by third party liability if they jump at say Lodi? You sure about that? It's not a USPA GM. So what's the scoop?

Good question. Dunno. No, I'm not sure of that...

I guess the insurance would be there if all the BSR's were followed in the jump, including landing area size restrictions.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[pilotdave 0]

On top of FARs and BSRs and all that, there can be state and local laws you need to comply with. Dunno about Vermont, but CT and MA have some very specific rules about skydiving and so do many towns in them.

Dave

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

On top of FARs and BSRs and all that, there can be state and local laws you need to comply with. Dunno about Vermont, but CT and MA have some very specific rules about skydiving and so do many towns in them.

Dave

Good points!

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Wait... USPA members aren't covered by third party liability if they jump at say Lodi? You sure about that? It's not a USPA GM. So what's the scoop?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good question. Dunno. No, I'm not sure of that...

My understanding is that the 3rd party insurance covers your skydives for everything but actual demos. That includes jumps done at non-USPA GM DZs. That's also why (I believe) that some non-USPA GM DZs require a USPA membership.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[velvetjo 0]

You'll need permission from the land owner of your intended landing site, even if it's not an airport. Also, the pilot needs to be in contact with the appropriate ATC facility working that airspace.

The best bet is to find a DZO, jump pilot, CFI, or some combination of those folks who are familiar with your area and jump regulations. It can be done pretty easily, but there are a lot of little steps involved in keeping it legal and relatively safe. The SIM and FAR's are good references.

Don't forget to go through the entire jump plan & exit procedure physically on the ground with your prospective jump pilot and fully brief the jump run & spotting signals. You'll want to find out if the particular AC you're using has any peculiarities too (will you need 1 notch of flaps to help prevent a tail strike?). Ethically, it's a good idea to talk to the pilot about the implications of jumping on their insurance policy if something does go wrong. Have fun & hope you pull it off.

Lance

[riggerrob 561]

Most of the single-engined Cessnas can be quickly converted for jumping, all you have to do is remove a door. Usually the pilot's operating handbook includes airpseed limitations when doors are removed.
I have jumped:
Cessna 172, 180, 182, 185, 205, 206, 207, 208 and 210.
I have also seen people jump from radial-engined Cessna 190 and 195.
Two-seater Cessnas (120, 140, 150 and 152) can be jumped, but they are far from economical, and you better be skinny.
Hee!
Hee!
For that matter, most of the high-wing, tube and rag airplanes are jumpable: Aeronca Champ, Citabria, Funk, Interstate Cadet, Luscombe, Piper Cub, etc.
Only a few low-wing airplanes are safe for jumping: i.e. Piper Cherokee Six.
Don't waste your time trying to get FAA approval to remove a door from a pressurized airplane (Piper Malibu/Mirage and later Cessna 210), because the paperwork will exceed the gross weight of the airplane!
Evil laughter!!!!

[freakflyer9999 1]

Quote

Your jump would also have to take place in Class 'D' or 'E' airspace, I believe- but I'm sure I'm about to be corrected.

Skydive Cowtown northwest of Fort Worth is located under Class B airspace and conducts jumps through the Class B airspace. There is additional paperwork involved, but it is possible.

[mjosparky 3]

Attached is a list of approved aircraft.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Eule 0]

Quote

The nutshell is that the aircraft must be certified for flight with the door removed. I believe
there is still a list of such aircraft at the back of the SIM.

There is in the 2005 edition. Page 209 (paper) or 227 (PDF). This is a reprint of Appendix 2 of
FAA Advisory Circular 105-2C. If you want to see the original, go to
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet,
and punch "105-2C" into the search box. On the front page, it is dated 1991 - maybe a few more
planes have been certified to operate without a door since then?

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[Misternatural 0]

Thanks Y'all, as expected great info and tips!! I'm gonna pass this stuff on to the pilots at my local flying club, hopefully I will someday be able to land in my back yard which is large enough for safe approaches and landings.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

The nutshell is that the aircraft must be certified for flight with the door removed. I believe there is still a list of such aircraft at the back of the SIM.

I'm pretty sure that is not a requirement to jump an aircraft legaly.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,466]

>I'm pretty sure that is not a requirement to jump an aircraft legaly.

It's not. You can jump a GA Tiger or Porter even if you don't remove the 'door.'

[pilotdave 0]

A tiger is a stretch...legally anyway. Canopy can only be opened about 12" in flight. I'm sure it flies fine with the canopy open all the way, but the flight manual restricts it.

Is there anything that legally prevents opening a cessna 152's or 172's door in flight?

Dave

[billvon 2,466]

>Is there anything that legally prevents opening a cessna 152's or
>172's door in flight?

I doubt it. The flight manual discusses what to do if it happens in flight, and how it's not a safety issue.

[headoverheels 292]

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A tiger is a stretch...legally anyway. Canopy can only be opened about 12" in flight. I'm sure it flies fine with the canopy open all the way, but the flight manual restricts it.

Is there anything that legally prevents opening a cessna 152's or 172's door in flight?


Dave

I've jumped a Seneca with the door on -- demo jump into an airshow with FAA inspector on site.
I've also seen a C-152 jumped with the door on.

And bandito Grumman Tiger/Cheetah jumps.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

A tiger is a stretch...legally anyway. Canopy can only be opened about 12" in flight. I'm sure it flies fine with the canopy open all the way, but the flight manual restricts it.

Is there anything that legally prevents opening a cessna 152's or 172's door in flight?

Dave

Many years ago I jumped a Tiger over Taft. It does not fly for shit with the canopy open enough to climb out. Pilot said he was losing almost a 1000 fpm until he closed it again.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[docjohn 0]

I used to jump my Cherokee 140 regularly and legally. We had to:

1). Post a placard on the panel which stated SEE POH FOR FLIGHT WITH DOOR REMOVED (something like that).

2). File a NOTAM for parachute jumping (location, altitutude, times, radio frequency)

3). Have the pilot wear a parachute



.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

>I'm pretty sure that is not a requirement to jump an aircraft legaly.

It's not. You can jump a GA Tiger or Porter even if you don't remove the 'door.'

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Door removal is not always required. Even on a Bonanza "V" tail.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[pjc 0]

Quote

I used to jump my Cherokee 140 regularly and legally. We had to:

1). Post a placard on the panel which stated SEE POH FOR FLIGHT WITH DOOR REMOVED (something like that).

2). File a NOTAM for parachute jumping (location, altitutude, times, radio frequency)

3). Have the pilot wear a parachute

I am interested in how you did this. Did you use any flap? Did you climb out onto the wing first or just dive down behind it? There is not much room between the back of the wing and the elevator on a 140. I have an Arrow 1 which has a similar fuselage and have often thought how I would go about jumping it!!

[kallend 1,673]

Quote

I used to jump my Cherokee 140 regularly and legally. We had to:

1). Post a placard on the panel which stated SEE POH FOR FLIGHT WITH DOOR REMOVED (something like that).

2). File a NOTAM for parachute jumping (location, altitutude, times, radio frequency)

3). Have the pilot wear a parachute



.

I've looked at my Mooney the same way, and decided that, on the whole, I'd prefer not to jump from it nor fly it while anyone else jumped!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[EDYDO 0]

Quote

I used to jump my Cherokee 140 regularly and legally. We had to:

1). Post a placard on the panel which stated SEE POH FOR FLIGHT WITH DOOR REMOVED (something like that).

2). File a NOTAM for parachute jumping (location, altitutude, times, radio frequency)

3). Have the pilot wear a parachute



.

The part about the pilot wearing the parachute, is that a part of the regs?

Ed