bazelos 0 #1 February 20, 2006 As I am student I will be jumping with rsl, so if theres a need to cutaway, the reserve will be deployed right away. In that case, do I still pull the reserve? As in, look, locate, peel, cutaway, arch? Or do I pull the reserve anyway?He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spanky39154 0 #2 February 20, 2006 First - GO speack to an instructor at your DZ. second - Go speak to an instructor at your DZ. You'll get opinions from jumps at various level with various opinions here that you can't vouch your life on!! So stick to what you were taught.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large Groups!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #3 February 20, 2006 Firstly, dont worry yourself before your jump although anxiety is normal. Assuming your using normal seperate cutaway handle and reserve handle then YES! The RSL is a backup. It might work, it might not. Be sure to pull your reserve handle if required. I furthur suggest that you should speak to your instructors as a matter of urgency before you go to jump. These sort of questions should have been covered in ground school. I know I had to do about 20 demonstrations in mock harness on the ground and then 3 in a suspended harness to show I was familiar with the emergancy procedures. If you have any doubts, ask to try out procedures in the harness. I think every DZ has to have one as a BPA requirement for training. May be wrong but I think thats the case Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #4 February 20, 2006 Pull your reserve ripcord! Talk to your instructor.... -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinwhelan 0 #5 February 20, 2006 I read in another of your posts that you have done the FJC but not yet jumped. Please before you do jump have your EPs fixed in your mind. Talk to your instructors and drill your EPs as they instruct. Even if the extra training means you miss the jump again and have to wait another week. Hanging under a spinning mal is not the time to try to reinvent your EPs. BTW I cant think of any situation where not pulling your reserve after a cutaway would help. Can you? "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #6 February 20, 2006 QuoteAs I am student I will be jumping with rsl, so if theres a need to cutaway, the reserve will be deployed right away.the reserve shouldbe deployed right away. EP's are EP's, do as you're trained.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bazelos 0 #7 February 20, 2006 We had two mock-up harnesses, a suspended one and another one where you just stand up and do the drill, I did the drill with bare hands and gloves, and I was ok at it, my thumb goes trhrough the reserve handle, peeling was ok (I was peeling upwards and not downwards) as was cutaway, I was just thinking about this as I was walking to town today, I was going to ask my instructor when I get to the dz but I wanted to ask you guys as well. Not that I am not going to pull the reserve in malfunction! Simply wondering...don't be too harsh on meHe who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #8 February 20, 2006 At your level, always do exactly as you are taught. Talk to your instructors, whoever that is. They will basically tell you what it does, and what happens when you chop, but they will tell you not to try and make up your own EPs. People have gone in thinking they have an RSL when they havent. Ive also heard of students being grounded/severely bollocked for NOT pulling the reserve handle because they were relying on the RSL. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #9 February 20, 2006 As others have said talk to you're instructors... but... here's what I tell students (During First Jump Courses) The RSL is designed to deploy the reserve when the risers are released but like any system it can fail. (a good example of this is the Scott Lutz story, above and beyond other problems occuring during his skydive his RSL didn't manage to deploy his resesrve.) So, given that it can fail you should probably go ahead and pull your reserve ripcord yourself during your emergency procedures.Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #10 February 20, 2006 plus if you dont pull your reserve and rely on the rsl, one day when u buy your own or use a hire rig that might not have one your muscle memory might cause you to not pull the reserve fast enough, just pull the thing, it certainly wont do any harm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #11 February 20, 2006 QuoteAs I am student I will be jumping with rsl, so if theres a need to cutaway, the reserve will be deployed right away. In that case, do I still pull the reserve? As in, look, locate, peel, cutaway, arch? Or do I pull the reserve anyway? I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #12 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs I am student I will be jumping with rsl, so if theres a need to cutaway, the reserve will be deployed right away. In that case, do I still pull the reserve? As in, look, locate, peel, cutaway, arch? Or do I pull the reserve anyway? I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again. I agree. Bazelos, I have seen you post a number of questions on here that are good questions - and I commend your enthusiasm - but they have been the sort of questions that you should ask your instructors. You haven't even made your first jump yet! No way should you be getting your basic student instruction over the internet. No way. I also agree you should sit in on another first jump course. Then ask your instructor plenty of questions. Then reinforce what you've (hopefully) learned by making your first jump ASAP before the lesson gets stale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LawnDart21 0 #13 February 20, 2006 QuoteSo, given that it can fail you should probably go ahead and pull your reserve ripcord yourself during your emergency procedures. Are you serious? Your a coach, and from your post, also teaching the non-method specific portion of FJCs, I ask you in all seriousness, do you teach that your RSL wearing students should probably pull thier own reserve handle while executing EPs? When did we change from "pull all your handles", to "you should probably pull all your handles?" In any emergency situation that requires a cutaway & reserve deployment, you should ALWAYS pull your own reserve handle. NEVER trust your RSL (or any other device) to do it for you. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dontbounce 0 #14 February 20, 2006 Do not take what I say as "advice", it is just my "opinion". Take notice of the fact that I have three jumps, one of which was a tandem. Your instructore are the best people to ask. They are usually a great bunch of folks that are glad to help you... With that said... I was told DO NOT rely on a peice of equipment, and that even though the RSL will probably get your reserve out out the bag before you even have your hand on the reserve handle (99.5% of the time), the other 0.5% of the time you will feel like a real genius/pimp for pulling the reserve handle... I was taught the Emergency procedures as if I didn't even have an RSL. If you think about it, the upside of pulling the reserve handle is that if your rsl fails, then you save your own butt. The downside is... If your rsl works, then you will pull your reserve handle for nothing... Seems worth it.. make sense? I am all about erring on the side of caution, esp at terminal velocity with a malfunctioning main... Now, theoretically if your DONT pull your reserve handle, and you DO rely on your rsl, the upside is? You saved yourself the tiny amount of energy it would take to pull the reserve handle. The downside is that your RSL could fail/stick/whatever... and then your in real trouble (main canopy gone, reserve still on your back, and you are sitting around wondering why your still falling so fast.) If you are concerned about safety, talk to your instructors. Let them know that you need some more training on the EP's, how the RSL works, etc. I wish I had done that, I wouldn't have failed my AFF level 1. It is a terrible (and expensive) feeling to fail one of your aff jumps.. Before you jump, you need to be confident in what you need to do if a problem occurs, you need to know your hand signals, and you need to know your EP's! I had line twists on my very first jump, and knowing how to deal with it was important in landing safely... The RSL is great, but it does not replace the reserve handle, that is why you have both. It can help if you brain fart and cant find the reserve handle after cut away. It does happen. That is why you are supposed to look at the reserve handle before you actually cut away. Remember, stay calm, and read your alti, dont just look at it... Have a blast! See you up there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #15 February 20, 2006 I'm sorry that you're picking apart my wording... I'll never post anything in general skydiving disucssion again. Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LawnDart21 0 #16 February 20, 2006 QuoteI'm sorry that you're picking apart my wording... "Should probably" = Not an absolute "Must" = an absolute Not trying to nit pick, but the words "should probably" can lead to confusion. More than one person has been reported on here as having had a cypres fire becuase they didn't pull thier reserve handle after cutting away with an RSL attached to their rig, because they didn't comprehend that their RSL was only an auxillary safety device, and that pulling thier reserve handle was a must. QuoteI'll never post anything in general skydiving disucssion again. Thats your choice. Some people on here choose to be PC and sugar coat things. When it comes to safety, I do not. It's nothing personal. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bazelos 0 #17 February 20, 2006 Hey I am sure Icon was just trying to help buddy...Anyway, to the point, most of the questions I'v posted where before I did the RAPS theory, I am ok with the emergency drill now, I was ok at the mock-ups, I just had this question in mind. The instructor did say on many occasions how a lot of the equipment we have is for backup only, it might not work, and we should trust us instread of the aad or whatever. My bad for asking if I should pull, I just had this little question in mind...He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #18 February 20, 2006 Quote The RSL is great, but it does not replace the reserve handle, that is why you have both. It can help if you brain fart and cant find the reserve handle after cut away. It does happen. That is why you are supposed to look at the reserve handle before you actually cut away. Some instructors teach students to have one hand on each handle. There are pros/cons to either method. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bazelos 0 #19 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuote The RSL is great, but it does not replace the reserve handle, that is why you have both. It can help if you brain fart and cant find the reserve handle after cut away. It does happen. That is why you are supposed to look at the reserve handle before you actually cut away. Some instructors teach students to have one hand on each handle. There are pros/cons to either method. That's what we did but I'v read about pulling the reserve with both hands...He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #20 February 20, 2006 QuoteMy bad for asking if I should pull, I just had this little question in mind... Its not bad for you to ask, but it is a key point that you missed in the 1st jump course. which just makes me wonder if you missed other points. some students are so full of questions they never hear what is taught to them. I really think you should take the 1'st jump course again. I'm willing to bet you the dzo will let you do it for free if you just ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bazelos 0 #21 February 20, 2006 He never told us not to pull the reserve, he told us how the RSL works, how it's backup only, like the cypres, I just forgot to ask him that...we did have a small test in the end however and I was able to remember pretty much everything (apart from the airspeed of the canopy if the wind is blowing at 10mph on me).He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lowpole 1 #22 February 20, 2006 pull every handle you have if you are in that situation (in the right order). I have had only 1 mal (knock on wood) and my rsl did beat me but I still landed with silver in my handDarwin's Watching! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #23 February 21, 2006 You have received advice from jumpers with 16 jumps to over 2000 jumps. The following advice from Marks is the only one you should give any consideration to. If you have in fact been through a FJC and are still asking questions of this type you need more instruction. "I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again." SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #24 February 21, 2006 QuoteYou have received advice from jumpers with 16 jumps to over 2000 jumps. The following advice from Marks is the only one you should give any consideration to. If you have in fact been through a FJC and are still asking questions of this type you need more instruction. "I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again." Sparky As usual I agree with Sparky. This is like asking " is it OK to jump with a watermellon on my first jump?" Go back to the DZ and ask your instructor the same question you asked here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #25 February 21, 2006 Quote That's what we did but I'v read about pulling the reserve with both hands... You will come across differences in ways of doing things to what you have been taught. Always practice and do what your instructors have taught you, not what you read elsewhere. But certainly feel free to chat with your instructors about what you've read.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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Andy9o8 0 #12 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs I am student I will be jumping with rsl, so if theres a need to cutaway, the reserve will be deployed right away. In that case, do I still pull the reserve? As in, look, locate, peel, cutaway, arch? Or do I pull the reserve anyway? I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again. I agree. Bazelos, I have seen you post a number of questions on here that are good questions - and I commend your enthusiasm - but they have been the sort of questions that you should ask your instructors. You haven't even made your first jump yet! No way should you be getting your basic student instruction over the internet. No way. I also agree you should sit in on another first jump course. Then ask your instructor plenty of questions. Then reinforce what you've (hopefully) learned by making your first jump ASAP before the lesson gets stale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #13 February 20, 2006 QuoteSo, given that it can fail you should probably go ahead and pull your reserve ripcord yourself during your emergency procedures. Are you serious? Your a coach, and from your post, also teaching the non-method specific portion of FJCs, I ask you in all seriousness, do you teach that your RSL wearing students should probably pull thier own reserve handle while executing EPs? When did we change from "pull all your handles", to "you should probably pull all your handles?" In any emergency situation that requires a cutaway & reserve deployment, you should ALWAYS pull your own reserve handle. NEVER trust your RSL (or any other device) to do it for you. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontbounce 0 #14 February 20, 2006 Do not take what I say as "advice", it is just my "opinion". Take notice of the fact that I have three jumps, one of which was a tandem. Your instructore are the best people to ask. They are usually a great bunch of folks that are glad to help you... With that said... I was told DO NOT rely on a peice of equipment, and that even though the RSL will probably get your reserve out out the bag before you even have your hand on the reserve handle (99.5% of the time), the other 0.5% of the time you will feel like a real genius/pimp for pulling the reserve handle... I was taught the Emergency procedures as if I didn't even have an RSL. If you think about it, the upside of pulling the reserve handle is that if your rsl fails, then you save your own butt. The downside is... If your rsl works, then you will pull your reserve handle for nothing... Seems worth it.. make sense? I am all about erring on the side of caution, esp at terminal velocity with a malfunctioning main... Now, theoretically if your DONT pull your reserve handle, and you DO rely on your rsl, the upside is? You saved yourself the tiny amount of energy it would take to pull the reserve handle. The downside is that your RSL could fail/stick/whatever... and then your in real trouble (main canopy gone, reserve still on your back, and you are sitting around wondering why your still falling so fast.) If you are concerned about safety, talk to your instructors. Let them know that you need some more training on the EP's, how the RSL works, etc. I wish I had done that, I wouldn't have failed my AFF level 1. It is a terrible (and expensive) feeling to fail one of your aff jumps.. Before you jump, you need to be confident in what you need to do if a problem occurs, you need to know your hand signals, and you need to know your EP's! I had line twists on my very first jump, and knowing how to deal with it was important in landing safely... The RSL is great, but it does not replace the reserve handle, that is why you have both. It can help if you brain fart and cant find the reserve handle after cut away. It does happen. That is why you are supposed to look at the reserve handle before you actually cut away. Remember, stay calm, and read your alti, dont just look at it... Have a blast! See you up there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #15 February 20, 2006 I'm sorry that you're picking apart my wording... I'll never post anything in general skydiving disucssion again. Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #16 February 20, 2006 QuoteI'm sorry that you're picking apart my wording... "Should probably" = Not an absolute "Must" = an absolute Not trying to nit pick, but the words "should probably" can lead to confusion. More than one person has been reported on here as having had a cypres fire becuase they didn't pull thier reserve handle after cutting away with an RSL attached to their rig, because they didn't comprehend that their RSL was only an auxillary safety device, and that pulling thier reserve handle was a must. QuoteI'll never post anything in general skydiving disucssion again. Thats your choice. Some people on here choose to be PC and sugar coat things. When it comes to safety, I do not. It's nothing personal. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bazelos 0 #17 February 20, 2006 Hey I am sure Icon was just trying to help buddy...Anyway, to the point, most of the questions I'v posted where before I did the RAPS theory, I am ok with the emergency drill now, I was ok at the mock-ups, I just had this question in mind. The instructor did say on many occasions how a lot of the equipment we have is for backup only, it might not work, and we should trust us instread of the aad or whatever. My bad for asking if I should pull, I just had this little question in mind...He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #18 February 20, 2006 Quote The RSL is great, but it does not replace the reserve handle, that is why you have both. It can help if you brain fart and cant find the reserve handle after cut away. It does happen. That is why you are supposed to look at the reserve handle before you actually cut away. Some instructors teach students to have one hand on each handle. There are pros/cons to either method. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bazelos 0 #19 February 20, 2006 QuoteQuote The RSL is great, but it does not replace the reserve handle, that is why you have both. It can help if you brain fart and cant find the reserve handle after cut away. It does happen. That is why you are supposed to look at the reserve handle before you actually cut away. Some instructors teach students to have one hand on each handle. There are pros/cons to either method. That's what we did but I'v read about pulling the reserve with both hands...He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #20 February 20, 2006 QuoteMy bad for asking if I should pull, I just had this little question in mind... Its not bad for you to ask, but it is a key point that you missed in the 1st jump course. which just makes me wonder if you missed other points. some students are so full of questions they never hear what is taught to them. I really think you should take the 1'st jump course again. I'm willing to bet you the dzo will let you do it for free if you just ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bazelos 0 #21 February 20, 2006 He never told us not to pull the reserve, he told us how the RSL works, how it's backup only, like the cypres, I just forgot to ask him that...we did have a small test in the end however and I was able to remember pretty much everything (apart from the airspeed of the canopy if the wind is blowing at 10mph on me).He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpole 1 #22 February 20, 2006 pull every handle you have if you are in that situation (in the right order). I have had only 1 mal (knock on wood) and my rsl did beat me but I still landed with silver in my handDarwin's Watching! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #23 February 21, 2006 You have received advice from jumpers with 16 jumps to over 2000 jumps. The following advice from Marks is the only one you should give any consideration to. If you have in fact been through a FJC and are still asking questions of this type you need more instruction. "I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again." SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #24 February 21, 2006 QuoteYou have received advice from jumpers with 16 jumps to over 2000 jumps. The following advice from Marks is the only one you should give any consideration to. If you have in fact been through a FJC and are still asking questions of this type you need more instruction. "I'm going to recommend you sit through the first jump course again, see if they will let you just tag along and go through the class again. that is a very very serious question that was probably taught to you, and for some reason you missed it. So I'm concerned about what else you missed in the first jump course. take the class again." Sparky As usual I agree with Sparky. This is like asking " is it OK to jump with a watermellon on my first jump?" Go back to the DZ and ask your instructor the same question you asked here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #25 February 21, 2006 Quote That's what we did but I'v read about pulling the reserve with both hands... You will come across differences in ways of doing things to what you have been taught. Always practice and do what your instructors have taught you, not what you read elsewhere. But certainly feel free to chat with your instructors about what you've read.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
