BDashe 0 #76 May 4, 2006 When the chips are down, your landing off, the wind conditions have changed since the time the airplane took off with powerlines and trees all around and there are dogs barking, houses everywhere and you have to put your canopy down in a very tight area. So dont think of the difficulty level when everything is going as normal, but consider when everything is shit. 50 Sq. foot in this situation may be a HUGE difference. Totally accurate- from my life experiences OUTSIDE of skydiving- murphy's law is always lingering around the corner, as well as human error. anyone seen that recent video with the guy who spiraled down while landing off and miraculously landed between powerlines, open fields everywhere? not worth it! clear skies!So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #77 May 4, 2006 You know while I was still finishing up my A there was another person who was still on student status. He finished AFF but was still working on his A. He was jumping a rig that his friend had given to him. I can respect that. This rig had a 190 sq ft canopy. He was talking to me about downsizing to a 170 because he wants something that, "Flies Faster." He then hopped on a load after this discussion. After he got back from that load he dropped his gear in the packing tent, and then he was bitching that his shoulder was killing him because he had a rough landing. He still didn't see my point when I asked him if he really though it was a good idea to try to downsize. The S&TA at this DZ said a canopy that "Flies Faster" will only kill you faster. I know people want to get their name in print, but the incident pages of the Parachutist is not the place to accomplish that. Anywhere else is just fine.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpingjimmy 0 #78 May 4, 2006 i'm beginning to see what people are saying on here, i think i need to calm down a little before i get hurt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #79 May 4, 2006 I went from a student canopy to a 170 on 25 jumps. I dont see what is wrong with it. A 170 is a good canopy to go down to. Most 190's that are floating around for students to buy are like 170's anyway. Most of these old 190's and 200's are all worn out F1-11's. You are going to get a much better landing on a ZP-190 over a F1-11 190. However, there will be a dramatic difference in the sky. After saying this though. It all depends on your weight out the door. someone who weighs about 160-170 pounds, if they picked up their student canopy skills quickly, they should be alrght on a 170. I am not an instructor, this is my opinion. I sell alot of canopies and help people find what they are looking for and i dont not ever rush anyone to downsize. Though i like to see a student work towards getting on a 170 (weight and skill depending) cause i think a 170 is a perfect canopy for jump numbers of 50-200, then maybe a 149 down to a 129. Anything below those sizes, i dont want to know. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #80 May 4, 2006 QuotePart of my flying years (15) was spent sitting on various ejection seats or wearing a parachute to the plane. Every year I went through all kinds of military training on parachuting. OK let’s get into a little personal history. I was issued my pilots lic. in 1981. While I do not have 10,000 hours or fly jets, I do fly airplanes. Those parachutes you spent 15 year sitting on or wearing I spent 20 plus year testing so you could sit on them. And if you were flying any of the fighters in the inventory today you were not sitting on the parachute that went out with Sandys. All of your training was dealing with round canopies and does not apply to what you are flying today. Your water drills and probably some form of land drills dealt with releasing the Koch fittings or if you were Navy you had Seawarrs. The canopies you were dealing with were likely a variant of the C-9 a 28’ flat. You like most people do not realize the there is little if anything you learned or did before skydiving that can be transferred over and used in this sport. I am not posting this to make you feel bad or as a slam against you. The very best this sport has produced have died doing it and the reaper won’t bat an eye about taking you if you give him just one little chance. Remember this is recreation, slow down and enjoy.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpingjimmy 0 #81 May 4, 2006 i asked somebody today what would happen if i got the flair uneven on a tiny eliptical canopy (not that i'm stupid enough to be under one of those) and he said that i'd probably need an ambulance guess things happen alot quicker than i imagined Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #82 May 4, 2006 or a coroner. probably a 50/50 chance of either one. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #83 May 4, 2006 I believe that he was something like 205 out the door. That wasn't really what concerned me. It was just the fact that he was hurting himself under the 190 he was flying.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #84 May 4, 2006 Oh, sorry, i dont think i read your post correctly. But yes 205 out the door should put at least 100, at least on a 200/190 first. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpingjimmy 0 #85 May 4, 2006 i'm always watching vids like this and thinking "i'll be able to do that" http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=6qbqs i was told today that it isn't as easy as getting a few hundreds jumps under your belt and then running out and buying a vx89 or something Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #86 May 4, 2006 I didn't put his exit weight in the previous post. It's ok brother man. We all need to rember we as long as we are smart, and everyone around us is smart will have the rest of our lives to work on our skills in free fall and under canopy. Also anyone can fly any canopy, however can you land it is the important thing.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #87 May 4, 2006 Quotei'm beginning to see what people are saying on here, i think i need to calm down a little before i get hurt Good to hear Take your time and have fun. You've got the rest of your life to enjoy this sport . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #88 May 4, 2006 Quote Also anyone can fly any canopy, however can you land it is the important thing. Not to bag on you here, but that statement is incorrect. We lost a legend in 2004 from a spinning main (very extreme main) at altitude. You have the right idea with being smart though. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #89 May 4, 2006 I see... I have read that the more highly loaded your wing is the more critical your body position is.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #90 May 4, 2006 I dont have any experience on highly loading a canopy so cant say there. I jump a Safire 2 129 loaded at 1.58 (i think). Getting ready for the step down to the crossfire but will not be downsizing as i love this size for time being. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #91 May 4, 2006 Going to vist a friend this morning who broke his femur on the weekend. Now he has a pin in his leg = out of jumping for 6 months. Wing Loading? 1.17 Wing Loading is Important! It is not the only importance. Attitude and Respect are just as important. He did not Respect his Experience (~140 jumps) which is a bad Attitude. To all my unknown friends out there 'Crawl, Walk, Run & FLY!'I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #92 May 5, 2006 This has been a good thread with some good points. I think I will end my piece whit saying this. THis is an online forum, so we are not familare with your particular skill sets. If you have any questions as to when to downsize just ask your instructors at your local DZ. You may not realize it but you are always being watched. Listen to them if your instructors and coaches think it would be a good idea to wait then it would be a good idea to wait.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #93 May 5, 2006 QuoteHey, man. You'll recall that you and I had a discussion about this very subject just a couple of weeks ago. I'd like to see you happy and unbroken in this sport for a long, long time. I respectfully urge you to listen to these people who are trying to get a message across to you, most of whom have a lot more canopy rides than I do. Whether you do or not is up to you. The reason I said somethign to you is because I was you with all sorts of excuses as to why i was different from every one else... and everyone told me that I should slow down and take my time as it would lead to a long skydivign career... but if you dont want to listen you can too be like I am now...realizing that I should have listened and slowed down and maybe taken some of the advice that people gave me about flying larger canopies for a while...so when I broke my leg under a 150 which I thought was totally cool for me to jump I upsized and learned that I didnt know shit about what I thought I knew... so why dont you take your time and if you want more speed get some canopy coaching remember a smaller canopy doesnt give you a bigger dick okay.... Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #94 May 5, 2006 I believe according to the uspa guidelines I'm over...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #95 May 5, 2006 QuoteI know people want to get their name in print, but the incident pages of the Parachutist is not the place to accomplish that. That's a nugget. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #96 May 5, 2006 I presume that in the title of your last post you didn't mean you were addressing me, but that you were addressing the same person as I was - right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2fat2fly 0 #97 May 5, 2006 I'm probably over now, but I didn't downsize canopies as much as I upsized me, so it was a slow (but not slow enoughI am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meux 0 #98 May 5, 2006 I've thought alot about what I said earlier and I feel like I came out the door sideways. Trying to sort of summarize some of the most important lessons I've learned along the way actually apply to any endeavor. For example, Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations" (or something like that). That applies in jets, under parachutes, or at the bowling alley. Another lesson I've learned is that it is way better to be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than to be in the air wishing I was on the ground. So I need to apologize for sounding pompous and making grievous spelling errors. There are some other things I've learned along the way too. Stuff like I am very afraid of pain. I don't like it, I don't even want to sprain my ankle, much less get titanium installed somewhere. What that means is that I tend to be cautious and not push to 100% of my limits. I try to pay attention to the conditions. Perhaps I've said enough here. I'll retire from this conversation with humble apologies for sounding stupid. Fly safe, have fun, and I look forward to jumping with you guys. MH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #99 May 5, 2006 QuoteI presume that in the title of your last post you didn't mean you were addressing me, but that you were addressing the same person as I was - right? totally agreeing with you Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #100 May 5, 2006 Just like you can't go buy an 18lb one of those really cool looking bowling balls with a brain painted on it or something and go bowl a 300. Those guys have bowled as many games as Moledski has training jumps. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
