This was new to me. Anyone else??

[Cacophony 0]

After I landed after shooting an AFF video I stowed my brakes in the field, just like I normally do. When I got inside I asked my packer to pack for me. During my next jump the opening was a nice, soft, on heading opening. When I went to release my brakes however, I realized something wasn't right. I tugged on my right brake line, but it refused to move. I realized that the line was actually tied in a knot around the guide ring on my riser! After deciding it would be inpossible to fix under canopy I chose to land with my rear risers. Ended up being an uneventful landing. I took a small wrap on the left line to help counter a small turn. I jump a Stiletto 135 loaded at 1.4.

My rigger told me that this is something that can potentially happen during opening or when you unstow your brakes. I could have also done it by stowing my brakes sloppy (which I don't do normally). What are everyone's thoughts? When you pack someone else's parachute, or your own, do you double check to make sure that the line is routed properly through the guide ring, or just that it does go through the ring? My packer mentioned how he checks to make sure the line is through the ring properly and the brakes are set. Is something like this a common occurance? I feel that I handled the situation very well, but I fear that someone with less experience will make a bad mistake and try to land with their risers when they don't know how, or perhaps decide to cut away too low.

[AggieDave 6]

I've seen it before and due to a couple of different reasons.

One reason was that the excess wasn't stowed and the jumper quickly grabbed his toggles, through the excess by accident.

The other instance was done accidently while setting the brakes, in the field after landing.

IMHO, right after landing you should go ahead and put your toggles back in the keepers, but wait to set them until you're read to pack it. Firstly, that keeps you from assuming its done while packing and secondly, the landing area can be a busy place with a lot of things requiring your attention. Why set yourself up to possibly doing it wrong?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Remster 24]

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One reason was that the excess wasn't stowed and the jumper quickly grabbed his toggles, through the excess by accident.

I was about to post this, but wouldnt this onlu create a knot on the line, not around the ring? The excess loop would have to go around the line, above the ring for this to happen I think.

Remster

[AggieDave 6]

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I was about to post this, but wouldnt this onlu create a knot on the line, not around the ring?

Ah good catch...now I'm trying to remember how he did it that caused a knot around the ring...its gonna take me a few minutes to remember, this old brain just doesn't respond like it used to.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Cacophony 0]

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One reason was that the excess wasn't stowed and the jumper quickly grabbed his toggles, through the excess by accident.

I was about to post this, but wouldnt this onlu create a knot on the line, not around the ring? The excess loop would have to go around the line, above the ring for this to happen I think.

In order to put a knot in the line you have to put a loop in the excess and then feed the toggle through that. I tried to replicate it on the ground and couldn't figure out how to knot it back up around the ring. If I did it when I first stowed the brakes, it took both me and my packer to overlook the problem.

[packerboy 3]

Do you release your toggles after landing before grabbing them again and stowing them? I know it sounds silly, but I have seen videos of people landing and the sort of flipping their toggles away before grabbing their risers or lines to slam their canopy into the ground.

You could inadvertantly flip the toggle over the ring and behind the brakeline and then while setting your brakes go up through that loop and lock your brakeline onto the ring. I think... I have my eyes close trying to picture the knot. Ah hell... I sucked as a sailor because I couldn't tie all the knots.. but it's possible.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Mad47 0]

I had a similar problem on the first jump yesterday, however I was able to straighten the slight turn and release the knot (apparently it was not tight).

The lower portion of the break line on second picture looks terribly twisted. I would guess this could potentially cause the knot after opening.

[Cacophony 0]

I think it just looks so twisted because at that point it was blowing in the wind. I straightened my brake lines about 10 jumps ago. Actually, I do let go of my toggles after I land and before I stow them because I always record my landings and I have to get ready for a tandem or AFF to land. Sometimes I just don't stow them in the field unless I have a little extra time. I guess its possible that it looped above the ring and I pulled it through itself, and then stowed it like normal without even noticing, as well as the guy who packed it not noticing. It just seems like such a stretch, but hey, it happened.

[mccordia 73]

I had the excact same thing happen to me 2 weekends ago on a birdman jump.

Released both brakes, but only one came off
The other toggle/stearingline (right) formed a knot that I couldn't get out.

Spent a short time trying to get it out (a bit hard to do while you need to have your other hand down keep the 'released' toggle in breaks, to prevent hard turns)

Couldn't get it fixed so I stowed my left break again (was relativly easy to do) and landed using rear-risers.

I have it on video if anyone is interested (but aside from some fidling with toggles for a few seconds and me screaming "Aahh titties!!" when I discover what's wrong it's not that interesting to watch...)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Bosveld 0]

No matter how hard I try I cannot possibly imagine how it could have happened after the brakes was stowed, (on opening or somewhere in the packjob.)
It must have happened when stowing the brakes.

a Lot of packers at my drop zone insist on the jumper stowing their own brakes prior to giving them to the packer. As a packer myself I don't care about that because I have to inspect the brakes before I pack anyhow. I cannot tell you how many times I have found problems on how the brakes were stowed when packing, even if at first glance they seemed to be stowed correctly.

If I have to check the brakes, I don't mind stowing them myself anyway because then at least I'm sure they are stowed properly. If you need to pack in a rush it is very easy to miss something like that.

Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true!

[mccordia 73]

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No matter how hard I try I cannot possibly imagine how it could have happened after the brakes was stowed, (on opening or somewhere in the packjob.)

Uppon examination after landing, it appeared as though the toggles where stowed with a bit too much slack, which somehow (maybe during opeing, maybe already during packing) managed to catch arround the toggle/ring on my riser and pulled into a knot.

When I came back to the DZ (I landed off) I showed it to a few people there, and actualy most of them came back with 'yea..I've had this happen once too...' or 'yea...Ive seen this happen before..'

You can see on the video that (before reaching) the toggles 'appear' to be fastened correct. If it's packing error, or some freaky way of grabbing toggles....no clue...

But in my case I tend to think 'think' it was a matter of leaving just a few inches too much slack line with the stowed piece of stearingline.

Don't know if it's somehow related to velcro toggles and the line being less secured between the velcro bands on the risers?

(got a new rig since last week, so hopefully I won't see any of this again)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[PhreeZone 15]

This can be caused by grabbing through the loop of excess line and grabbing the toggle and pulling. I know... I did it on video last year

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[matthewcline 0]

This same thing happened to one of my team mates yesterday. He had been stowing his excess through the bottom elastic keeper after seting the brake. This reduced the excess brake lines loop size but still created the opertunity to pull the toggle through the loop. Wich he did, he too landed uneventfully with his rear risers.

He now stows the excess "S" folded under the top of the toggle, it is a little bilky if you have dacron lines but almost completely reduces the chance of "pulling a Knot" on brake release.

Matt Cline
S&TA/IFFSO
D-21585

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[kallend 1,623]

There does seem to be a systemic problem here.

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=994748#994748

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Cacophony 0]

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This can be caused by grabbing through the loop of excess line and grabbing the toggle and pulling. I know... I did it on video last year Blush

But you can't knot it around the ring doing it like that. You have to loop it around the line above the ring, and then pull it through. Thats a lot of work and I don't really see how its possible after opening unless you were actually trying to knot it. I'm pretty much satisfied that I did it when I stowed the brakes. Grabbing it through the excess would only make an annoying knot in the line.

[Gatzo 0]

This happend 4 or 5 years ago to a guy over here - and let to a fatality. As I remember the report: The breakline was looped over the ring and between the breakline and riser. He flew the canopy down and both toggles moved freely up and down (he did turns). Upon landing he apparently pulled hard on both toggles thereby making the looped steeringline lock.

[Bosveld 0]

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But you can't knot it around the ring doing it like that. You have to loop it around the line above the ring, and then pull it through.

This is what I meant by I cannot picture how it happened. If you look at the pics the knot is around the ring, Iff you grabbed the toggle through the excess lines I can't picture how it would knot around the ring? Maybe I'm wrong, I'll check this weekend how it's possible at the drop zone when packing cause I'm quite interested in this now.

Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true!

[jeepman222 0]

here is my 2 cents the same thing happened to me at about jump 18 pulled brakes down boom 1 does not come down. do to lack of experience cut it away after trying to clear it. I did not pack it. the dz packer did and was slow day so was not rushed when she did pack it in my case do not think was packed in think just happend when i pulled it down. My first and only res ride ( so far) did not get to see the main as it was ripped when recovered and got sent to man for repair do not think anyone else checked it either

[kyros1 0]

The same happened to me also and it was my 2nd cutaway. The best cure is to stow brake lines as the manufactures suggests