Packing

[jacketsdb23 45]

Thanks for all the input. I feel you all with the heat issue. It was over 100 the other day in Byron and packing was a pain. You guys/girls in AZ probably deal with that on a daily basis. Doing that everyday might make me change my mind about packing for myself

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[ntrprnr 0]

Packing by packer: 5 minutes = me on more loads.

Packing by me: one hour = me on less loads.

Is $7 or so worth my time x4 to jump all day?

Hell's yes.

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"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[phoenixlpr 0]

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acking by me: one hour = me on less loads.

You are so lame. That's a shame and even proud of it.

[peregrinerose 0]

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But, yeah, I, too, am watching those guys. I try to not let them know, I don't want to annoy or disturb or make them feel uncomfortable when packing your life saving equipment.

I can't speak for packers at other DZs, but we encourage people to watch us pack, ask questions, etc. For newer jumpers with their own gear that are too hesitant or insecure to jump their own pack jobs, I flat out refuse their money after their last jump of the day and make them pack themselves with us there to watch or answer questions. It's nice to see someone become comfortable in their own packing and with their own gear. Even if it does mean a little less income for me.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[wildfan75 1]

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Because man, my five jumps yesterday are killing me.

Suck it up, cupcake.

You're probably jumping student gear right now with one-size-fits-none adjustable harnesses. Once you get your own gear it will be worlds more comfortable, even if it isn't custom.

In the meantime, I found that wearing spandex under my clothes helped a little. Another guy swore by his padded biking shorts.

See attached. I can't get the leg straps tight enough on the transition rig I'm using. We solved the problem by putting oven mitts down my jump suit, thumbs up of course!

[Skyliber 0]

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See attached. I can't get the leg straps tight enough on the transition rig I'm using. We solved the problem by putting oven mitts down my jump suit, thumbs up of course!

Damn. And here I'm complaining about a little mild discomfort. I take it back now.

-=+ Skyliber, Disynthegrate, & Nucleaire +=-

[DrewEckhardt 0]

#1:

If I don't rush things it takes me about 7 minutes to pack a skydiving main which is good enough to make every other load at the majority of DZs that have one or fewer turbine aircraft flying at a time.

If I wait for a packer in a lot of places their 5 minute pack jobs will be preceeded by a long wait that'll have me on fewer loads.

#2:

I don't like to trust other people to pack my gear (did 5 out of 6 of my last reserve pack jobs too).

[Flyer2Diver 0]

I figure that I'm slow at packing, don't really enjoy it very much, and the packers at my DZ have been excellent. I'm happy to pay for the service, and like to contribute to the "DZ economy".

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30005KT 10SM SKC 23/05 A3006

[Icon134 0]

I pack at least 90% of my total jumps... it was hard to do at first... but because I practice and practiced it has since become second nature... when i was first learning I would try 2-3 times and if I was having trouble I would illicit the assistance of an experienced packer to get the first stow.

I understand why some people pay packers and why some people pack for themselves... and I don't fault either party...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[ntrprnr 0]

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acking by me: one hour = me on less loads.

You are so lame. That's a shame and even proud of it.

I'm sorry? Why is that a shame? If I can afford to pay a packer, and they're better at it, and it means I can get back in the air quicker and enjoy myself and LEARN more, why is that a shame?

By your logic, anyone who isn't 100% a master at packing should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm not a master of cleaning my apartment to spotless, either, so I have a woman come in once every other week. Could I learn to do it and save some money? Sure, probably. Is that worth my time? No.

Will I learn to pack quicker at some point? Probably. Is it first and foremost on my mind? No, not right now. Could I do it if I landed six miles out and needed to hike back? Yup. But if I'm on the drop zone, and people are there to do it for me, exactly why is that shameful?

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[ntrprnr 0]

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acking by me: one hour = me on less loads.

You are so lame. That's a shame and even proud of it.

And I'll assume that your dig at me of "you are so lame" was not meant to be insulting, but rather ,was you not having a mastery of proper English, seeing how you're not from this country. That said, you get a pass. Don't do it again.

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"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[dharma1976 0]

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New zp canopy... until it's broken in I'll let a packer fight with it...

when it is new and slippery it slides in the bag easier

Thanks to uncle iggy for that awesome statement...

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[packerboy 3]

Packing sucks. It paid for enough jumps to get me to the point where I can now afford to go out and get instructional ratings, so I'm done with packing. I guess I should change my username.

I'll still pack for myself, but when I go on vacation to a larger turbine DZ that has a bunch of packers... I'll probably pay for one or two.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[NWFlyer 2]

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I'm sorry? Why is that a shame? If I can afford to pay a packer, and they're better at it, and it means I can get back in the air quicker and enjoy myself and LEARN more, why is that a shame?

I'll bite. Because you're not LEARNing more about the thing that's going to keep you alive. Yes, packing sucks, and yes, I pay a packer maybe 30% of the time, especially at boogies. But, you will never learn about your gear, intimately, until you get out there and pack it regularly. And you're never going to get better and faster at packing until you do it.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jacketsdb23 45]

I think there is a fundamental difference between not packing because it sucks and not packing because you CAN'T pack. If it took me say 45 minutes ( I know..an absurd time period - just making my point) to pack my canopy, I think I would be really concerned. I would keep packing until I was confident and could do it in a reasonable time period (highly subjective).

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, the parachute opening is high on the list of priorities. I really think that it is a skill that is overlooked by a lot of new jumpers who don't want to take the time to learn it well. Once I'm a rigger and pack my own reserve, then maybe I'd consider helping the local DZ economy

Something about going 14K feet in the air and jumping out of a plane with two parachutes packed by others doesn't appeal to me. At least give me the first shot and the guy who know's what he's doing can have the second chance.

Side note: Started packing my fathers rig at about age of 12. ( he was a rigger and packed his own reserve - luckily, for me, he never needed it) So I had a little head start. Maybe that makes me biased as packing doesn't seem like that big a deal to me (except when i'm sweating so bad from the heat I can't see).

K, i'm done ranting......Next.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[packerboy 3]

Absolutely there is a difference between not knowing how to pack and not packing because it sucks.

Do you know how to change your closing loop? Shorten it? Do you know when to close it or shorten it?

Would you recognize a misrouted bridle during a pin check? Are you sure about that?

Are you comfortable connecting your own main to your container? If not, do you think you would notice if your cutaway system was not connected properly? Are you sure about that?

Do you know how your RSL works? Where it is supposed to be connected? When, how, and why to disconnect it?

Do you know for sure you don't have grommets on your rig that have become unseated?

What about general wear and tear on your system? Do you only get that checked when you get a reserve pack job?

This shit can kill you. Although your packer is supposed to be supervised by a rigger, chances are he/she isn't a rigger and can and will miss some of this stuff. Not because they are incompetent, but because they are busy, and you paid them to pack your parachute, not inspect your system. They should find this stuff... but they are not responsible for your stuff.. you are.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[phoenixlpr 0]

Go ahead and nit-pick on my English.

Even a A class student is able to prepare his/her gear for jumping less than 25 minutes.

[packerboy 3]

Not all of them can.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[phoenixlpr 0]

In our club they do.

[packerboy 3]

I know of people well past A requirements that can't pack in 25 minutes.. let alone pack at all.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[phoenixlpr 0]

We pack for first timers only. We teach and supervise the rest.

[ntrprnr 0]

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Go ahead and nit-pick on my English.

Even a A class student is able to prepare his/her gear for jumping less than 25 minutes.

Well that's super. I'm glad that your club is so technically literate in the dark arts of packing. I've put it on my list of things to do, (even posted in other boards on this site for help to do it,) so it's not like I'm ignoring it.

However, I am a perfectionist. I will sit and take days to get something perfect before I sign off on it. That's how I'm wired. If I have a packer at my DZ that I trust, and it's a gorgeous Saturday, I'm going to let him pack for me until I've learned the art well enough that a) I can do it in a shorter amount of time, and b) can do it without mistakes.

By the way - I wasn't nitpicking your English - I was telling you not to call me lame. You don't know me. It's the same as my not knowing you and calling you a jack-ass. It's uncalled for, and there are better ways to make your point. I was even so much as giving you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you meant something less insulting.

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If it took me say 45 minutes ( I know..an absurd time period - just making my point) to pack my canopy, I think I would be really concerned. I would keep packing until I was confident and could do it in a reasonable time period (highly subjective).

How long did it take you the first time you packed your canopy? The first time you learned? The first time someone supervised you? Exactly my point. I packed my own gear for my A, and I jumped my own pack job. It opened fine. My goal after that was to get better in the air. I can't pay someone to do my jumps for me, but I can pay someone to handle the job of packing when I want to. As I continue in this sport, (and have more rainy days) I'll learn to pack, to the point where I'm packing my own gear.

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Side note: Started packing my fathers rig at about age of 12. ( he was a rigger and packed his own reserve - luckily, for me, he never needed it) So I had a little head start. Maybe that makes me biased as packing doesn't seem like that big a deal to me (except when i'm sweating so bad from the heat I can't see).

You're quite talented at it too, I'll bet - Not a dig - I'm sure, since you've been doing it since age 12, you rock at it, no question. It's an amazing skill to have, and I'm sure you've only gotten better the more you do it, as NW mentioned below you.

I fly to Japan a lot for work - I can say, in Japanese, "Please don't think I'm being disrespectful if I can't correctly speak your language - I'm still learning." That gets me a lot of leeway and slack when in business meetings. In a way, it's similar to a crutch. Like having a packer is. As opposed to having to learn, I can use that phrase. The right thing to do? No. I should be learning my Japanese.

I've been speaking English since I learned to talk - I'm quite good at it - Much better than I am at Japanese. If I wasn't, there'd be a problem. But I've been doing it all my life. I've been in the sport for about 14 months, and am not that talented at it yet. And if I'm going to take my limited time at the Drop Zone on a gorgeous sunny day to pack my own rig, then I'm not jumping. Will I learn it? Yes. But the "Don't think I'm insulting you because I'm learning your language" crutch of hiring a packer is very tempting. Should I be learning to pack? Yes. Will I? Yes. Today? Probably not. It's gorgeous out.

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But, you will never learn about your gear, intimately, until you get out there and pack it regularly. And you're never going to get better and faster at packing until you do it.

Disagree, respectfully - I know my gear intimately. I can tell you everything about it, I've worked with my rigger on my brake lines, how it feels, how specific types of packing produce specific openings, why they do, and the like. I'm also putting a 229 into a bag made for a 209, and quite frankly, it's a bitch to do. ZT (my preferred packer) knows this, and is good at it. I'm not looking at my rig and saying, "Oh, this thing? Oh, something comes out of it that saves my life, but I don't know how." I can take the entire rig apart, and I've cutaway on the ground to see how exactly it works, and put it back together, (with an instructor watching) just so I could learn how to do it.

I do agree that I'll never get faster until I do it myself. I didn't get good at the Piano until I listened to my mom and started practicing every day. But, see above - as I continue to evolve in this sport, I'll continue to learn. And I'll get faster. And I'll pack my own gear.



So... the vibe I'm getting here is because I don't pack my own gear, I'm not a "real" skydiver, or I'm more of a Ken doll skydiver to the sport? Not directed at you, NW, just a general feeling based on all the responses.

That sucks, if that's what people think just because packing isn't my finest talent.

PS: I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet, so forgive me if my spelling isn't 100% there.

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[packerboy 3]

Good way to get better at packing faster....

Pack on those sunny days when you want to get on another load.

How many loads are you getting on now? 5-10-20?

I'm guessing not 20. 5-8 maybe? I've never been there, but I assume on a nice bright sunny day The Ranch puts up quite a few loads. You could probably take 45 minutes to pack and still get on 8 loads in one day. Your gonna be wiped at the end of the day, but it would take at tops 3 or 4 weekends (40-50) packjobs before you are packing in less than 10 minutes. 229 in a bag made for a 209? 100 packjobs and you'll be able to put your 229 in a bag made for a 190. 200 after that and you'll be able to put it in a bag made for a 170 (although closing the container may be a bitch).

When you get good at packing... pay a packer because packing sucks. But at 100 jumps, you should be packing your own gear IMO. You may think you know your gear intimately, but if you can't pack a sport main in under 20 minutes you don't know it as well as you should. Some of the stuff you will learn along the way may save your life sometime. I have 1000's of packjobs on a whack of different systems and I still learn stuff about gear all the time. I've SEEN the stuff that you should be looking for when packing. I've notified people of serious issues with their own gear that they missed because they don't pack. Some to the point of grounding the rig pending some rigging work. I am willing to bet that in a frenzy of packing a crapload of rigs in one day that I have packed rigs that have maintenance problems with them that I did not see. Why? Because I'm lazy? No. Because I'm incompetent? No. Because someone tossed me a rig because they wanted it packed in 5 minutes and I packed it in 5 minutes. Packers miss stuff that you should notice on your own gear. It shouldn't be the packers job to replace your worn closing loop, or shorten your loop because you have it too long because you suck at packing. Or untwist your brakelines, or tell you that you need a new pilot chute because it is baffed out. Will they? Probably.. at least I would. But this should be your job. This stuff you won't notice unless you pack.

I just quit being a packer, and for the first time 2 weeks ago paid a packer to pack for me so call me hypocritical if you will. But when I want to get on that sunset load after just landing from a sunset load... I'm on it, only because I don't have to wait for a packer.

Being able to pack a rig in 10 minutes will get you on far more loads than paying a packer who can pack it in 5... after they finish the tandem, or student gear, or someone who beat you to them, or their own gear. Except in Burnaby... those packers kick ass!!!!

It's alot easier to get good at than people think... once you put 10-20 jumps on your own packjobs and get confident, you really start picking up the pace bigtime.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson