LannerFalcon 0 #1 August 6, 2004 Being relatively new <50 jumps I wanted to get something straightened out. When you tell someone in a plane what your 'pull' altitude is , it seems everone has a different idea! For person A - pulling at say 3000ft means their waving off, and deploying, which actually means by the time their actually under canopy (and a potential risk to the person jumping behind them) its 2500ft ish. For person B- pulling at 3000ft means to them that their waving off at 3300-3500ft in order to be in the process of main opening around 3000ft. I know its only a detail, but it could potentially be an important one, anyone know the definitive way?............................................................. Break now Jester! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #2 August 6, 2004 convention at all the DZs I've been to is to say the hight you throw your PC - never met anyone who uses option B before... although I suppose they could be and I've just not shot past them in free fall yet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #3 August 6, 2004 Quote'pull' altitude is Pull altitude should be exactly that. The altitude you pull your hackey/rip/POD.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #4 August 6, 2004 Pack opening altitude is a more accurate descriptor, as used in the BSR's. If some says they want to be "open" by 3000' I expect them to be "pack opening" around 3500' or higher. Many of today's canopies take 700' to a 1000' to open. Many older designs take 200' to 500'. So your A example, starting deployment sequence with wave off at 3000' expecting 2 seconds(300-400') to actually open the pack and 700' opening on their new spectre would put them below 2000'. Your example B with wave off at 3300 to 3500' and with "pack opening" at 3000' actually IS the normal way "pull" is referenced. Your text doesn't quite descibe it right though. With wave off started at 3300' to 3500' pack opening will be at 3000' and an open canopy may be as high as 2800' and low as 2000'. So "pack opening" is usually called pull altitude. If someone wants to be "open" by 3000' pull altitude is between 3300' and 4000' depending on canopy and wave off a few hundred feet higher. "Hey where you going to pull?" "3000'" "Hey where do you want to be open at?" "2500'" Same answer and same actions at the same altitude.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #5 August 6, 2004 I train students (the few I have trained) that they need to be into the inflation stage at their designated "pull altitude," so if this means they need 5 seconds to wave, reach, pull, then I tell them to start waveoff at 4000' for a 3000' opening. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LannerFalcon 0 #6 August 6, 2004 Thanks. these replies just reinforce my point. The first wo have different opinions to you guys!People could be planning exits on the plane and be 500ft out from each other if you know what I mean , with different interpretatons............................................................. Break now Jester! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #7 August 6, 2004 Damn, now I'm confused. Pull altitude, pack opening altitude, inflation stage... I would imagine this should be clarified at each DZ, but, in general, shouldn't "pull altitude" be as simple as stated above? Pull altitude = height you begin deployment sequence (wave/throw)? Now if I break off a formation at 4k, then wave off at 3k, and then throw my pc, am I wrong? And does the few hundred feet make that much of a difference?Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #8 August 6, 2004 Quote"Hey where you going to pull?" "3000'" "Hey where you going to be open at?" "Depends." -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #9 August 6, 2004 Altitude at which they last looked at their dial? Break off altitude? Wave off altitude? Pull - pud - altitude? Show a pilot chute altitude? Pack opening altitude? Line stretch altitude? Sitting in the saddle altitude? Fully inflated altitude? Looked at their dial again altitude? After control check altitude? There are many different definitions of "opening altitude." I prefer "show a pilot chute altitude." This used to be the standard for Drop Zone Safety Officers to ground low-pullers. i.e. "This is your third warning. Show a pilot chute above 2,000 feet or you can spend the rest of the weekend on the ground." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #10 August 6, 2004 When I ask a group or individual what their pull altitude is I expect the altitude they are going to be throwing their pilot chute at. I could care less when they wave off, or if they wave off at all, as long as they pull at their determined pull altitude. (although I do recommend everyone does a waveoff prior to pulling) If you are unsure what your fellow jumpers are indicating the best way to clarify it is to ask them. It can be very valuable, potentially life saving, to know the difference. Hope this helps...Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #11 August 6, 2004 >People could be planning exits on the plane and be 500ft out from each >other if you know what I mean , with different interpretatons. 500? Try 1500. That's why vertical separation doesn't work. Take an example. Guy A, a new jumper, is going to try his first 4-way, and he plans to pull "a little low" at 3500 feet. Guy B, an experienced canopy pilot, is going to take his Katana out and open above him at 4500 feet. Plenty of separation, right? Guy A breaks off at 4500, tracks a few seconds, sees 3900 feet, says "oh shit!" waves off quickly and pulls at 3600. His Sabre 210 cracks open by 3300 feet. Guy B gets out of the plane. His altimeter is a little off. He sees 4500 feet on his alti (really 4100; they're not that accurate) pulls by 3800 and snivels down to 3100. If those two guys did not leave enough horizontal separation, B will end up in A's canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #12 August 6, 2004 QuoteNow if I break off a formation at 4k, then wave off at 3k, and then throw my pc, am I wrong? And does the few hundred feet make that much of a difference? Your not wrong but a few hundred feet does make a difference if your staggering openings for a stadium demo, if your D license and throwing a pilot chute at 2000', or you canopy takes 700' vs 200' to open. But "pack opening" should equal pull altitude. As we see it doesn't for newer jumpers, probably does more for old farts, and you need to ask more questions to be sure what you each mean when discussing it. BSR's are "pack opening", not fully open canopy.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #13 August 6, 2004 If your pull altitude is 3000ft and you are jumping with someone else, your breakoff is at 4000ft, track, and then start your wave off about 3300ft so you are throwing your pilot chute at close to 3000ft. No, a couple hundred feet isn't very important, but try and do the dive you planned. If you have someone very close to you during your track off, tracking alittle more for clean air is suggested and a BIG waveoff to let them know your going to pull is great. Be safe. -www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustaBill 0 #14 August 6, 2004 Me with all of my 37 jumps, when someone asks me I usually say, "I'm going to throw at 4000" so they know that's when I'm gonna be beginning the sequence. I figure that clarifies it pretty well.------------------------------------------------ I've done so much, with so little, for so long I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
