slug 1 #26 July 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". You have got to be kidding me The way I see it is that it's a whole lot closer to being a sport now than it ever has been. I'm sorry we're not all a bunch of hippie stoners in the middle of a corn field like it was " back in your day" , but that's called progress. You freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Me personally, I'll take it the way it is now. The sport has problems yes, but It's come a long way from dirty hippieville...... Hi Rat Why don't you just tell us what you really think without all the sugar coating Some of us old farts know the real deal because we were there back in the day and are still here. IOW our opinions are based on first hand experience, instead of drop zone legends repeated over the last 40 years around the campfire. Of course some of what you said happened back in the day at some DZ's and it's still happening today at some DZ's. IMO if the subject line of the thread was changed from the "Deterioration of" to "Evolution" of skydiving than some people wouldn't be so defensive. Everything changes over time sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. Have a good one R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #27 July 28, 2006 Interesting...on the rodeo boards, there is a very similar thread about how riding broncs used to be for "real cowboys" and how there wasn't all this "safety gear" and how it used to be about having fun, drinking too much at night, and was never about money... The same theme plays in the entertainment industry about how it used to be about the love of art, but now everyone does it on their computer, no body plays real instruments, etc. Seems like evolution is part of well....everything, no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cptchaos 0 #28 July 28, 2006 if 'cripples' are what would disqualify a sport from being a sport? well... the paralympics will be be dissapointed. no seriously, disabled people have as much right to take part in exreme sports as anyone else. i believe may participation in the sport can only have positive spin offs. everyone has to start somewhere and for many, a tandem is the introduction. unfortunately accidents will happen! ***all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cptchaos 0 #29 July 28, 2006 QuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. I have seen it develop from a small club operation to commercial, for profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death. It may be time for govrnment to take a look at this mad rush for profit before any others die needlessly.[some of the cripples become liscenced skydivers]all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #30 July 28, 2006 QuoteYou have got to be kidding me The way I see it is that it's a whole lot closer to being a sport now than it ever has been. I'm sorry we're not all a bunch of hippie stoners in the middle of a corn field like it was " back in your day" , but that's called progress. You freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Me personally, I'll take it the way it is now. The sport has problems yes, but It's come a long way from dirty hippieville...... Towerrat, I’m sorry you have such a low opinion of the “freakin old guys”. No, we are not, “…all a bunch of hippie stoners in the middle of a corn field.” Before you blow me off as an old guy whose feelings got hurt by your post, hear me out. It’s not about feelings. It’s about caring. It’s about wanting to see you younger guys succeed without having to go through the pains the older guys went through. You could learn a lot about how to survive in this sport from them. No, I’m not saying that you will die if you don’t listen and learn from them. I’m saying that you could learn the easy way rather than the hard way by taking what they have to offer and putting it to use in your own life. Just like you are doing now with the things you are learning from other younger guys with respect to your swooping progression. Yes, the older guys did stupid shit just like the younger guys are doing today. It’s simply a matter of learning what stupid shit has already been done so that you can avoid doing it yourself. No different than learning from your father who probably tried to help you along the way by teaching you not to make the same mistakes that he did growing up. No different than seeing what the younger guys are doing to kill themselves today and avoiding THOSE mistakes. It’s about not re-inventing the wheel and hoping that you reach your goals without the benefit of already-learned knowledge. All in all, the older guys have a lot to offer and it’s free and painless to learn from them. I’m sure you were not serious when you said, “Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round…” Surely you would not wish that on anyone, right? AndyMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #31 July 28, 2006 QuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. ... Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death.. emphasis mine What an IDIOTIC response! It seems in your "41" years you have learned little about other things besides "skydiving". Cripples skydiving ... yeah, next thing you know the darkies and jews will want to skydive. edied to add: I'd love for you to call Dana Bowman (fellow Green Beret) and double amputee he is a "cripple" steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #32 July 28, 2006 Quote Skydiving wouldn't have all the turbine DZs and the windtunnels and the DZs with showers, nice bathrooms, indoor packing and everything else that jumpers seem to like, if it wasn't for DZOs working hard to make their business grow. Whaaaaaa???? We aint got none of that shit at my drop zone - not even the nice bathroom. But hey, if your too proud tio drop a deuce in a porta-john, what good are you anyway? Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darrenspooner 0 #33 July 28, 2006 Individuals need to accept risk and take responsibility Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #34 July 28, 2006 QuoteYou freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Replying to an overly broad generalization with a presumptuous stereotype. How very persuasive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #35 July 29, 2006 >>You freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round.<< You just proved the orignal posters point . . . Well done! NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #36 July 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Replying to an overly broad generalization with a presumptuous stereotype. How very persuasive. Hi Andy I'd like to give towerrat the benifit of the doubt Did he mean what he said to make a point? Then to bad he missed the mark. On a positive note if towerrat was trying to provide the DZ.com family some real funny entertainment in this thread, then he was very successful. R.I.P. B-7881 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #37 July 29, 2006 We have had perfectly able bodied people fall from harnesses harnesses too. There have been perfectly able bodied persons fall from their personal rig harnesses as well. The reasons for these needless deaths have been examined under a microscope and are being dealt with accordingly. Are you claiming these people died because they were rushed into the plane by greedy negligent people? That's a pretty damn serious accusation! The way I read your frustration is that skydiving for you used to be like playing hockey on the frozen pond as kids for the love of the sport. And now what we see is lockouts and seasons not being played because greedy professionals want millions of dollars to do what others would do for free if only they were given the opportunity. If you look hard enough though, you will see that there are far more "oldtimers" playing in rec leagues everywhere and enjoying a beer in the dressing room after a game than there are greedy professionals who are part of the "evolution" of the sport. It's the same in all sports. BTW, I think you would find that "cripples" have been able to participate somehow in anything you may consider a sport. Those greedy professionals may seem more prevelant in skydiving however, because unlike hockey, you are playing on the same rink at the same time. You need to find a new "oldschool" rink to play at. If what you want to do is point fingers at people and scream gross negligence... well that's a fairly classless way to get your point of frustration across, and you should be prepared to explain with facts exactly what and who you are accusing. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #38 July 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. ... Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death.. emphasis mine What an IDIOTIC response! It seems in your "41" years you have learned little about other things besides "skydiving". Cripples skydiving ... yeah, next thing you know the darkies and jews will want to skydive. edied to add: I'd love for you to call Dana Bowman (fellow Green Beret) and double amputee he is a "cripple" _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Ummm... Actually, I thought the use of the word "crpples" was a refreshing use of a legitimate word to describe people who are, in one way or another, crippled. I don't have a dictionary at hand, but I seem to remember the word being used to describe people who, for whatever reasons, were unable to do things most "normal" people could do. Furthermore, last I checked the people in question didn't really have a beef with the terminology. Whatever social outrage has ever been connected with the term was pretty much fabricated by people with political agendas. If you are in the habit of saying things like "he/she", "him/her", "spokesperson", etc., then you have fallen into their trap. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #39 July 29, 2006 QuoteSome of us old farts know the real deal because we were there back in the day and are still here. ----------------------------------------- good, that's great. I'm glad you are still here and I hope you will help me learn. That being said I didn't hear you bitching about the "cripples" and the people trying to make a living. The cripples? what the hell is that ? Who speaks like that? Quote Replying to an overly broad generalization with a presumptuous stereotype. How very persuasive. -------------------------------------- You're kidding right? did you read this guys post? You obviously are smoking the same shit those guys were.......wake up Quote I'd like to give towerrat the benefit of the doubt Did he mean what he said to make a point? Then to bad he missed the mark. ------------------------------------------ Don't bother giving me the benefit of the doubt, I just call em' like I see em'. It amazes me that you guys jump on me after I reply to this strikingly ignorant and closed minded post. While I agree that the sport certainly has deficiencies, I certainly don't think it's the "cripples" fault. Times change. Yes we should learn from the past, I wholeheartedly agree, but move on...Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #40 July 29, 2006 QuoteIt amazes me that you guys jump on me after I reply to this strikingly ignorant and closed minded post. Someone's opinion differs from yours so they are "ignorant and closed minded" Kettle meet Pot. QuoteI just call em' like I see em'. QuoteAnd thats how I see your response.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #41 July 29, 2006 I thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cptchaos 0 #42 July 29, 2006 i need to clear something up here and it seems i may be the only one in this thread qualified to do so. i am a L1 paraplegic and DISABLED!! not crippled.i dont know where you get your info but i dont like being called a cripple and no disabled person that i know would accept it iether. i am in the sport for my own gratification and if some old farthas an opinion...... he has every right to it as i have to mine.all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #43 July 29, 2006 Hi Folks Quote"Times change. Yes we should learn from the past, I wholeheartedly agree, but move on..." QuoteTowerrat is right How about a group hug In cyber space R.I.P. BTW Anyone remember Archie Bunker on T.V. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yamtx73 0 #44 July 29, 2006 It's amazing how things evolve over a period of time... Take the English language for instance... One generation used the word cripple to describe people who were deprived of the use of at least 1 limb, the next generation used the word handicapped, then came disabled, now we have physically challenged. In skydiving we have had the same evolution... first came solo jumps with a round... next we had small RW formations still with a round... then came style and accuracy as new gear is being developed... now we have birdmen, CReW, FF and swooping... Tandems are just another facet of what skydiving has evolved into over the last few decades... The English language isn't deteriorating and neither is skydiving, they're both evolving... changing with each new generation that comes into it... Is this good? Is this bad? I'm not one to make that choice for anyone else...The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 July 29, 2006 QuoteI thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. Were you responding to me?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #46 July 30, 2006 Just playing devils advocate I guess... it's all just semantics really. Someone is just as entitled to call someone elses opinion ignorant and close minded as they are entitled to having an opinion of their own. After all, it's just their opinion. Their are many opinions that I find here on dropzone.com that are very different from my own that I find quite intelligent and well thought out, and some that I find are pretty stupid. Not because they differ from my own, just because the opinion is idiotic and dumbass. That being said, I thought both posts were ignorant and close minded. But that's just my opinion. The honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #47 July 30, 2006 QuoteThe honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! ------------------------------------------------------------ AAHHHAAAA!!!! Stirring the pot! That's what I do. Perhaps you guys are right, maybe I did get a little jumpy, I just get aggravated with crotchety old people. I was a touch hammered, and maybe a little drunk, but I still stand by the general sentiment. I could have been a little more ummmmmmm understanding? edited to add: I also think jumping on the bandwagon is idiotic and dumbass......Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #48 July 30, 2006 Hi Towerrat After further review of the origional posters: profile past posts, reviews and gear for sale IMO folks we've been had it's time to take the hooks out of our mouths and learn from this experience, I know I have. The origional poster is laughing his ass off and accomplished his mission. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #49 July 30, 2006 You're woefully misinformed if you believe "cripple" is a preferred term by those who are disabled. I'm not a PC person. It galls me to write articles for APA I have to use gender neutral language. So, no, I have not fallen into that trap. However, I feel the original poster was displaying his lack of humanity(not lack of PC) inusing the word "cripple" as a derogatory term. Reread his original post and replace "cripple" with any word (women, blacks, etc) and see if it doesn't read as he implies he as an able bodied skydiver is so much better than them. He may have not meant it that way, but that is the wayit comes across to many. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LastBreath 0 #50 July 30, 2006 Quoteor profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Its important to remember that tandem skydives introduce allot of people into the 'sport'. Ok, I've only ever done the one tandem skydive, and at 18 I'm waiting for that right time in my life where i can fully commit to training. I would hate to think I'm joining at a time where skydiving has lost its soul. With the mood at the DZ i took my first jump i can assure you it hasn't.Fell the Fear, do it anyway ! 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DSE 3 #27 July 28, 2006 Interesting...on the rodeo boards, there is a very similar thread about how riding broncs used to be for "real cowboys" and how there wasn't all this "safety gear" and how it used to be about having fun, drinking too much at night, and was never about money... The same theme plays in the entertainment industry about how it used to be about the love of art, but now everyone does it on their computer, no body plays real instruments, etc. Seems like evolution is part of well....everything, no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cptchaos 0 #28 July 28, 2006 if 'cripples' are what would disqualify a sport from being a sport? well... the paralympics will be be dissapointed. no seriously, disabled people have as much right to take part in exreme sports as anyone else. i believe may participation in the sport can only have positive spin offs. everyone has to start somewhere and for many, a tandem is the introduction. unfortunately accidents will happen! ***all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cptchaos 0 #29 July 28, 2006 QuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. I have seen it develop from a small club operation to commercial, for profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death. It may be time for govrnment to take a look at this mad rush for profit before any others die needlessly.[some of the cripples become liscenced skydivers]all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #30 July 28, 2006 QuoteYou have got to be kidding me The way I see it is that it's a whole lot closer to being a sport now than it ever has been. I'm sorry we're not all a bunch of hippie stoners in the middle of a corn field like it was " back in your day" , but that's called progress. You freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Me personally, I'll take it the way it is now. The sport has problems yes, but It's come a long way from dirty hippieville...... Towerrat, I’m sorry you have such a low opinion of the “freakin old guys”. No, we are not, “…all a bunch of hippie stoners in the middle of a corn field.” Before you blow me off as an old guy whose feelings got hurt by your post, hear me out. It’s not about feelings. It’s about caring. It’s about wanting to see you younger guys succeed without having to go through the pains the older guys went through. You could learn a lot about how to survive in this sport from them. No, I’m not saying that you will die if you don’t listen and learn from them. I’m saying that you could learn the easy way rather than the hard way by taking what they have to offer and putting it to use in your own life. Just like you are doing now with the things you are learning from other younger guys with respect to your swooping progression. Yes, the older guys did stupid shit just like the younger guys are doing today. It’s simply a matter of learning what stupid shit has already been done so that you can avoid doing it yourself. No different than learning from your father who probably tried to help you along the way by teaching you not to make the same mistakes that he did growing up. No different than seeing what the younger guys are doing to kill themselves today and avoiding THOSE mistakes. It’s about not re-inventing the wheel and hoping that you reach your goals without the benefit of already-learned knowledge. All in all, the older guys have a lot to offer and it’s free and painless to learn from them. I’m sure you were not serious when you said, “Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round…” Surely you would not wish that on anyone, right? AndyMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #31 July 28, 2006 QuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. ... Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death.. emphasis mine What an IDIOTIC response! It seems in your "41" years you have learned little about other things besides "skydiving". Cripples skydiving ... yeah, next thing you know the darkies and jews will want to skydive. edied to add: I'd love for you to call Dana Bowman (fellow Green Beret) and double amputee he is a "cripple" steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #32 July 28, 2006 Quote Skydiving wouldn't have all the turbine DZs and the windtunnels and the DZs with showers, nice bathrooms, indoor packing and everything else that jumpers seem to like, if it wasn't for DZOs working hard to make their business grow. Whaaaaaa???? We aint got none of that shit at my drop zone - not even the nice bathroom. But hey, if your too proud tio drop a deuce in a porta-john, what good are you anyway? Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #33 July 28, 2006 Individuals need to accept risk and take responsibility Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #34 July 28, 2006 QuoteYou freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Replying to an overly broad generalization with a presumptuous stereotype. How very persuasive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #35 July 29, 2006 >>You freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round.<< You just proved the orignal posters point . . . Well done! NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #36 July 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Replying to an overly broad generalization with a presumptuous stereotype. How very persuasive. Hi Andy I'd like to give towerrat the benifit of the doubt Did he mean what he said to make a point? Then to bad he missed the mark. On a positive note if towerrat was trying to provide the DZ.com family some real funny entertainment in this thread, then he was very successful. R.I.P. B-7881 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #37 July 29, 2006 We have had perfectly able bodied people fall from harnesses harnesses too. There have been perfectly able bodied persons fall from their personal rig harnesses as well. The reasons for these needless deaths have been examined under a microscope and are being dealt with accordingly. Are you claiming these people died because they were rushed into the plane by greedy negligent people? That's a pretty damn serious accusation! The way I read your frustration is that skydiving for you used to be like playing hockey on the frozen pond as kids for the love of the sport. And now what we see is lockouts and seasons not being played because greedy professionals want millions of dollars to do what others would do for free if only they were given the opportunity. If you look hard enough though, you will see that there are far more "oldtimers" playing in rec leagues everywhere and enjoying a beer in the dressing room after a game than there are greedy professionals who are part of the "evolution" of the sport. It's the same in all sports. BTW, I think you would find that "cripples" have been able to participate somehow in anything you may consider a sport. Those greedy professionals may seem more prevelant in skydiving however, because unlike hockey, you are playing on the same rink at the same time. You need to find a new "oldschool" rink to play at. If what you want to do is point fingers at people and scream gross negligence... well that's a fairly classless way to get your point of frustration across, and you should be prepared to explain with facts exactly what and who you are accusing. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #38 July 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. ... Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death.. emphasis mine What an IDIOTIC response! It seems in your "41" years you have learned little about other things besides "skydiving". Cripples skydiving ... yeah, next thing you know the darkies and jews will want to skydive. edied to add: I'd love for you to call Dana Bowman (fellow Green Beret) and double amputee he is a "cripple" _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Ummm... Actually, I thought the use of the word "crpples" was a refreshing use of a legitimate word to describe people who are, in one way or another, crippled. I don't have a dictionary at hand, but I seem to remember the word being used to describe people who, for whatever reasons, were unable to do things most "normal" people could do. Furthermore, last I checked the people in question didn't really have a beef with the terminology. Whatever social outrage has ever been connected with the term was pretty much fabricated by people with political agendas. If you are in the habit of saying things like "he/she", "him/her", "spokesperson", etc., then you have fallen into their trap. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #39 July 29, 2006 QuoteSome of us old farts know the real deal because we were there back in the day and are still here. ----------------------------------------- good, that's great. I'm glad you are still here and I hope you will help me learn. That being said I didn't hear you bitching about the "cripples" and the people trying to make a living. The cripples? what the hell is that ? Who speaks like that? Quote Replying to an overly broad generalization with a presumptuous stereotype. How very persuasive. -------------------------------------- You're kidding right? did you read this guys post? You obviously are smoking the same shit those guys were.......wake up Quote I'd like to give towerrat the benefit of the doubt Did he mean what he said to make a point? Then to bad he missed the mark. ------------------------------------------ Don't bother giving me the benefit of the doubt, I just call em' like I see em'. It amazes me that you guys jump on me after I reply to this strikingly ignorant and closed minded post. While I agree that the sport certainly has deficiencies, I certainly don't think it's the "cripples" fault. Times change. Yes we should learn from the past, I wholeheartedly agree, but move on...Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #40 July 29, 2006 QuoteIt amazes me that you guys jump on me after I reply to this strikingly ignorant and closed minded post. Someone's opinion differs from yours so they are "ignorant and closed minded" Kettle meet Pot. QuoteI just call em' like I see em'. QuoteAnd thats how I see your response.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #41 July 29, 2006 I thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cptchaos 0 #42 July 29, 2006 i need to clear something up here and it seems i may be the only one in this thread qualified to do so. i am a L1 paraplegic and DISABLED!! not crippled.i dont know where you get your info but i dont like being called a cripple and no disabled person that i know would accept it iether. i am in the sport for my own gratification and if some old farthas an opinion...... he has every right to it as i have to mine.all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #43 July 29, 2006 Hi Folks Quote"Times change. Yes we should learn from the past, I wholeheartedly agree, but move on..." QuoteTowerrat is right How about a group hug In cyber space R.I.P. BTW Anyone remember Archie Bunker on T.V. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yamtx73 0 #44 July 29, 2006 It's amazing how things evolve over a period of time... Take the English language for instance... One generation used the word cripple to describe people who were deprived of the use of at least 1 limb, the next generation used the word handicapped, then came disabled, now we have physically challenged. In skydiving we have had the same evolution... first came solo jumps with a round... next we had small RW formations still with a round... then came style and accuracy as new gear is being developed... now we have birdmen, CReW, FF and swooping... Tandems are just another facet of what skydiving has evolved into over the last few decades... The English language isn't deteriorating and neither is skydiving, they're both evolving... changing with each new generation that comes into it... Is this good? Is this bad? I'm not one to make that choice for anyone else...The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 July 29, 2006 QuoteI thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. Were you responding to me?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #46 July 30, 2006 Just playing devils advocate I guess... it's all just semantics really. Someone is just as entitled to call someone elses opinion ignorant and close minded as they are entitled to having an opinion of their own. After all, it's just their opinion. Their are many opinions that I find here on dropzone.com that are very different from my own that I find quite intelligent and well thought out, and some that I find are pretty stupid. Not because they differ from my own, just because the opinion is idiotic and dumbass. That being said, I thought both posts were ignorant and close minded. But that's just my opinion. The honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #47 July 30, 2006 QuoteThe honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! ------------------------------------------------------------ AAHHHAAAA!!!! Stirring the pot! That's what I do. Perhaps you guys are right, maybe I did get a little jumpy, I just get aggravated with crotchety old people. I was a touch hammered, and maybe a little drunk, but I still stand by the general sentiment. I could have been a little more ummmmmmm understanding? edited to add: I also think jumping on the bandwagon is idiotic and dumbass......Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #48 July 30, 2006 Hi Towerrat After further review of the origional posters: profile past posts, reviews and gear for sale IMO folks we've been had it's time to take the hooks out of our mouths and learn from this experience, I know I have. The origional poster is laughing his ass off and accomplished his mission. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #49 July 30, 2006 You're woefully misinformed if you believe "cripple" is a preferred term by those who are disabled. I'm not a PC person. It galls me to write articles for APA I have to use gender neutral language. So, no, I have not fallen into that trap. However, I feel the original poster was displaying his lack of humanity(not lack of PC) inusing the word "cripple" as a derogatory term. Reread his original post and replace "cripple" with any word (women, blacks, etc) and see if it doesn't read as he implies he as an able bodied skydiver is so much better than them. He may have not meant it that way, but that is the wayit comes across to many. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LastBreath 0 #50 July 30, 2006 Quoteor profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Its important to remember that tandem skydives introduce allot of people into the 'sport'. Ok, I've only ever done the one tandem skydive, and at 18 I'm waiting for that right time in my life where i can fully commit to training. I would hate to think I'm joining at a time where skydiving has lost its soul. With the mood at the DZ i took my first jump i can assure you it hasn't.Fell the Fear, do it anyway ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mjosparky 3 #40 July 29, 2006 QuoteIt amazes me that you guys jump on me after I reply to this strikingly ignorant and closed minded post. Someone's opinion differs from yours so they are "ignorant and closed minded" Kettle meet Pot. QuoteI just call em' like I see em'. QuoteAnd thats how I see your response.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #41 July 29, 2006 I thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cptchaos 0 #42 July 29, 2006 i need to clear something up here and it seems i may be the only one in this thread qualified to do so. i am a L1 paraplegic and DISABLED!! not crippled.i dont know where you get your info but i dont like being called a cripple and no disabled person that i know would accept it iether. i am in the sport for my own gratification and if some old farthas an opinion...... he has every right to it as i have to mine.all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #43 July 29, 2006 Hi Folks Quote"Times change. Yes we should learn from the past, I wholeheartedly agree, but move on..." QuoteTowerrat is right How about a group hug In cyber space R.I.P. BTW Anyone remember Archie Bunker on T.V. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yamtx73 0 #44 July 29, 2006 It's amazing how things evolve over a period of time... Take the English language for instance... One generation used the word cripple to describe people who were deprived of the use of at least 1 limb, the next generation used the word handicapped, then came disabled, now we have physically challenged. In skydiving we have had the same evolution... first came solo jumps with a round... next we had small RW formations still with a round... then came style and accuracy as new gear is being developed... now we have birdmen, CReW, FF and swooping... Tandems are just another facet of what skydiving has evolved into over the last few decades... The English language isn't deteriorating and neither is skydiving, they're both evolving... changing with each new generation that comes into it... Is this good? Is this bad? I'm not one to make that choice for anyone else...The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #45 July 29, 2006 QuoteI thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. Were you responding to me?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #46 July 30, 2006 Just playing devils advocate I guess... it's all just semantics really. Someone is just as entitled to call someone elses opinion ignorant and close minded as they are entitled to having an opinion of their own. After all, it's just their opinion. Their are many opinions that I find here on dropzone.com that are very different from my own that I find quite intelligent and well thought out, and some that I find are pretty stupid. Not because they differ from my own, just because the opinion is idiotic and dumbass. That being said, I thought both posts were ignorant and close minded. But that's just my opinion. The honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #47 July 30, 2006 QuoteThe honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! ------------------------------------------------------------ AAHHHAAAA!!!! Stirring the pot! That's what I do. Perhaps you guys are right, maybe I did get a little jumpy, I just get aggravated with crotchety old people. I was a touch hammered, and maybe a little drunk, but I still stand by the general sentiment. I could have been a little more ummmmmmm understanding? edited to add: I also think jumping on the bandwagon is idiotic and dumbass......Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #48 July 30, 2006 Hi Towerrat After further review of the origional posters: profile past posts, reviews and gear for sale IMO folks we've been had it's time to take the hooks out of our mouths and learn from this experience, I know I have. The origional poster is laughing his ass off and accomplished his mission. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #49 July 30, 2006 You're woefully misinformed if you believe "cripple" is a preferred term by those who are disabled. I'm not a PC person. It galls me to write articles for APA I have to use gender neutral language. So, no, I have not fallen into that trap. However, I feel the original poster was displaying his lack of humanity(not lack of PC) inusing the word "cripple" as a derogatory term. Reread his original post and replace "cripple" with any word (women, blacks, etc) and see if it doesn't read as he implies he as an able bodied skydiver is so much better than them. He may have not meant it that way, but that is the wayit comes across to many. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LastBreath 0 #50 July 30, 2006 Quoteor profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Its important to remember that tandem skydives introduce allot of people into the 'sport'. Ok, I've only ever done the one tandem skydive, and at 18 I'm waiting for that right time in my life where i can fully commit to training. I would hate to think I'm joining at a time where skydiving has lost its soul. With the mood at the DZ i took my first jump i can assure you it hasn't.Fell the Fear, do it anyway ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
packerboy 3 #41 July 29, 2006 I thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cptchaos 0 #42 July 29, 2006 i need to clear something up here and it seems i may be the only one in this thread qualified to do so. i am a L1 paraplegic and DISABLED!! not crippled.i dont know where you get your info but i dont like being called a cripple and no disabled person that i know would accept it iether. i am in the sport for my own gratification and if some old farthas an opinion...... he has every right to it as i have to mine.all that is gold does not glitter not all those who wander are lost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #43 July 29, 2006 Hi Folks Quote"Times change. Yes we should learn from the past, I wholeheartedly agree, but move on..." QuoteTowerrat is right How about a group hug In cyber space R.I.P. BTW Anyone remember Archie Bunker on T.V. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yamtx73 0 #44 July 29, 2006 It's amazing how things evolve over a period of time... Take the English language for instance... One generation used the word cripple to describe people who were deprived of the use of at least 1 limb, the next generation used the word handicapped, then came disabled, now we have physically challenged. In skydiving we have had the same evolution... first came solo jumps with a round... next we had small RW formations still with a round... then came style and accuracy as new gear is being developed... now we have birdmen, CReW, FF and swooping... Tandems are just another facet of what skydiving has evolved into over the last few decades... The English language isn't deteriorating and neither is skydiving, they're both evolving... changing with each new generation that comes into it... Is this good? Is this bad? I'm not one to make that choice for anyone else...The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #45 July 29, 2006 QuoteI thought the original "deterioration of skydiving" and the "old fart stoned hippy" response were both strikingly ignorant and close minded. And no, not just because the opinions differ from mine, but because of the fashion the arguments were presented. But that's just my opinion... I may be wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but just because they are entitled to it doesn't mean it's an educated opinion, or open minded, or even remotely close to being right. Were you responding to me?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #46 July 30, 2006 Just playing devils advocate I guess... it's all just semantics really. Someone is just as entitled to call someone elses opinion ignorant and close minded as they are entitled to having an opinion of their own. After all, it's just their opinion. Their are many opinions that I find here on dropzone.com that are very different from my own that I find quite intelligent and well thought out, and some that I find are pretty stupid. Not because they differ from my own, just because the opinion is idiotic and dumbass. That being said, I thought both posts were ignorant and close minded. But that's just my opinion. The honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #47 July 30, 2006 QuoteThe honest truth... I was just post-whoring and doing a little trolling at the same time, because I'm at work and have nothing better to do! ------------------------------------------------------------ AAHHHAAAA!!!! Stirring the pot! That's what I do. Perhaps you guys are right, maybe I did get a little jumpy, I just get aggravated with crotchety old people. I was a touch hammered, and maybe a little drunk, but I still stand by the general sentiment. I could have been a little more ummmmmmm understanding? edited to add: I also think jumping on the bandwagon is idiotic and dumbass......Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #48 July 30, 2006 Hi Towerrat After further review of the origional posters: profile past posts, reviews and gear for sale IMO folks we've been had it's time to take the hooks out of our mouths and learn from this experience, I know I have. The origional poster is laughing his ass off and accomplished his mission. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #49 July 30, 2006 You're woefully misinformed if you believe "cripple" is a preferred term by those who are disabled. I'm not a PC person. It galls me to write articles for APA I have to use gender neutral language. So, no, I have not fallen into that trap. However, I feel the original poster was displaying his lack of humanity(not lack of PC) inusing the word "cripple" as a derogatory term. Reread his original post and replace "cripple" with any word (women, blacks, etc) and see if it doesn't read as he implies he as an able bodied skydiver is so much better than them. He may have not meant it that way, but that is the wayit comes across to many. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LastBreath 0 #50 July 30, 2006 Quoteor profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Its important to remember that tandem skydives introduce allot of people into the 'sport'. Ok, I've only ever done the one tandem skydive, and at 18 I'm waiting for that right time in my life where i can fully commit to training. I would hate to think I'm joining at a time where skydiving has lost its soul. With the mood at the DZ i took my first jump i can assure you it hasn't.Fell the Fear, do it anyway ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
slug 1 #48 July 30, 2006 Hi Towerrat After further review of the origional posters: profile past posts, reviews and gear for sale IMO folks we've been had it's time to take the hooks out of our mouths and learn from this experience, I know I have. The origional poster is laughing his ass off and accomplished his mission. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #49 July 30, 2006 You're woefully misinformed if you believe "cripple" is a preferred term by those who are disabled. I'm not a PC person. It galls me to write articles for APA I have to use gender neutral language. So, no, I have not fallen into that trap. However, I feel the original poster was displaying his lack of humanity(not lack of PC) inusing the word "cripple" as a derogatory term. Reread his original post and replace "cripple" with any word (women, blacks, etc) and see if it doesn't read as he implies he as an able bodied skydiver is so much better than them. He may have not meant it that way, but that is the wayit comes across to many. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LastBreath 0 #50 July 30, 2006 Quoteor profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Its important to remember that tandem skydives introduce allot of people into the 'sport'. Ok, I've only ever done the one tandem skydive, and at 18 I'm waiting for that right time in my life where i can fully commit to training. I would hate to think I'm joining at a time where skydiving has lost its soul. With the mood at the DZ i took my first jump i can assure you it hasn't.Fell the Fear, do it anyway ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
