How did you feel the first time you saw someone hit hard?

[bob.dino 0]

I've seen three major ones. In the first, a good mate did a femur, knee, and ankle. The incident didn't have a major emotional impact on me, though having to call his parents was pretty rough. Maybe this is because we weren't aware of the extent of his injuries until he reached hospital. That said, I became much more interested in the right way to teach canopy control immediately after this accident as, with better training, this could've easily been avoided.

The second was the same one Travman saw - this incident. I feel for his girlfriend.

The third resulted in no injuries, but involved a friend of mine bouncing about 20m. I thought she was dead. That wasn't pleasant. A high-speed approach and traffic caused that one.

All incidents occurred under good canopies. Which, given that I've ordered a smaller faster canopy, is a timely lesson.

[Odin 0]

I saw the second impact not the first, and I was confused by the fact that he made no attempt to PLF. As the jumper was a good friend, I felt a kind of introspective sadness as the incident unfolded, but it's a state of mind I can't really put words to. By the time the ambulance arrived, (it was a panic toggle turn to avoid another canopy) I just felt like letting the other jumper involved know that he was still very much family. The feelings about the whole incident/issue still go on, but those were the first few.

[bmcd308 0]

I have been around for several bad accidents, but the only actual ground impact I have seen was this:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1636889;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

I don't think I'll ever feel the same way about the sport.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[Sillygirl100 0]

That was a very emotional post Brent, thank you for sharing. You said you have never felt the same way about the sport since. This season has been full of incidents/near fatalities at my dz and I can't figure out the problem, usually people get lazy towards the end of the season, not that skydivers should EVER not be aware, but I have a fear going back to jump. As I said it is not a fear that something will happen to me - but too many things happening in a short period of time can make one uneasy about safety. I hope I will go back, I don't want to give up, I love this sport, but I don't like the otherside and what it can do to people and the people that are too far ahead for their jump numbers that my hurt themselves or me for that instints. I used to take a calm feeling in that there were so many experienced jumpers around that everyone watches eachothers backs, but people just seem to not be paying attention and it scares the absolute crap out of me. Maybe it's because I'm a girl and a little over sensitive.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

I saw the Dead Mike incident at the WFFC 1997 when he slammed onto the runway after a canopy collision and barely survived

that was a bad one.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[maxmadmax 8]

I saw a guy bounce at Quincy in 99.

The winds were smoking and hell even I was standing down.

I look up and this guy is running downwind at 100 ft or so over the tents by the sport accuracy area.

He reaches up, grab a left toggle hooks it hard. I start screaming AMBULANCE before he hits.

The guy hits God awful hard. Like a sack of potatos thrown off of a 4 story building.........

He impacts a tent and God knows what kind of hurt he suffered.

All he had to do was take a downwind landing and maybe break a foot or buy beer that night.....

All I can say is SHIT!

Don't go away mad....just go away!

[JayCam 0]

A couple of weeks ago a girl I know lost control of her canopy somehow on landing and just missed some trees and hit the side of a building and some hedges. I thought she had died as I watched her do it as I was walking back with my rig. I ran over when she came down and it turned out she had managed to swing under this little tiny hole in the bottom of the hedge and UNDER a fence. So lucky she only hurt her wrist I dont think she would have walked away if she was a few feet higher/lower/left/right that was pretty terryifying thinking I had seen a fatality or serious injury.

J

[livenletfly 0]

[seen 3 people hit HARD, hard enough that all 3 times i immediately thought they were dead. one was a femur from a bad swoop, one was a bad swoop with minor injuries, and one was a double malfunction resulting in a broken pelvis, collarbone, and punctured lung. it is absolutely amazing how hard the human body can hit the ground and still remain functional (i.e. alive).
and no, you dont forget..... ]
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damn bro, youve seen 3 impacts in 1 year of skydiving. whats going on at your dz?

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[crotalus01 0]

well, 2 of them were self induced (bad swoops) and one was of the "everything right and still die" variety. keep in mind one was basically injury free (seperated ribs and bruised organs), one was broken pelvis/collarbone and punctured lung, and one was a femur.
having said that, i can say safety is a big priority at my DZ, and hopefully i am a safer skydiver from seeing the results of a bad swoop and aggressive downsizing.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[livenletfly 0]

[keep in mind one was basically injury free (seperated ribs and bruised organs),
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what is your defenition of injury! lmao, i wouldnt exactly call that injury free! im just joking, im sure your dz is all good. its just alot of pounding to see in 1 year. my thoughts about this are; you wont be a safer skydiver for seeiong it. you will be a safer skydiver for never forgetting it!!!! ok get a pen heres my shpeel.
on my 10th jump my instructor hooked it in right in front of me. i remember how confused i was. i couldnt understand what the hell happened! he hit flippinn hard and bounced 5 feet in the air like a rag doll. then somehow stood up and did this crazy "o shit are my bones sticking out of my legs" dance. my first thought was, "these friggin people are crazy,.......but damn there tough! i like it here."
well 2 years later swooping is my favorite dicipline, and youd think after watching that id be real careful and never be that guy,......wrong. at jump 403, wham! i did the same shit but was told i bounced 6-8 feet.

out-doing your early mentors is not the moral to this story. the moral is, remember it, think about it. but never ever think "i wont ever pound,cuz i saw how bad pounding is" you wont pound if you keep your ego in check. listen to others, take it slow, and most off know yourself, and ACCEPT YOUR LEARNING CURVE.
peace bro. be safe, have fun
jeff

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[matthias 0]

Being new to the suppose I fortunately haven't seen anyone burn-in. I hope..such an incident never occurs. I have, however seen buddies of mine get waxed right in front of me.

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However, the image and sound of that incident is burned in my mind.

This is a good way to describe it. I know the feeling all to well.

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Do you somehow forget?

Depending on the circumstance and your relation to the person, probably not. In my case..I'd rather not discuss it.

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how did you cope?

In my case, we have a few support groups at the VA for those really served in Aghanistan and Iraq. Just being able to have someone you can talk to who can relate is helpful, because most who haven't been in such a situation will never understand. In regards to your subject, all you can do is remember one for how they lived rather than how they went out, be there for there family and friends, and if it was my loss, hope my family and friends would do the same for me. Otherwise, coping is just a day by day process. Life moves on, some things you never get over but remaining positive not getting too down over it is the main thing.

Just my 0.02, hope I said something that was of help.

Matt


Being new to the suppose I fortunately haven't seen anyone burn-in. However, I have wit

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trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[Yossarian 0]

ive seen a few minor things, the first was a no flare under a 170 (extremely short sighted lost her lenses in freefall to the point she couldnt see the ground), she was ok as it was a ploughed field. even though i knew her very well the it was more curiosity as to if she was going to get up than fear or worry. the next was a very low hook turn, at 50 jumps even i knew it was low, and before he hit there was just time for the cci to say 'hes dead' in a very solemn deadpan voice. he was fine in the end, somehow turned on his side and bounced around a bit but he was fine. the worst was my mate from a low hook turn about 20ft away, came in knees first and bounced up into his lines before coming down again, quite an impressive dust-cloud actually. happened too fast for time to slow down as you didnt see it coming, i was just moving towards him. he was never still and hopped up almost straight away, ill never know how he didnt smash his knees or his femurs, all he did was twist an ankle on his second or third bounce. quite scary really.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Do you somehow forget?

Nope. I watched Dwain Weston fly his yellow wingsuit into the bridge railing I was standing against 10' away, Robin Heid break lots of bones stalling into talus and then tumbling down head over heels, friends break tib/fib/femurs, and can't say that I really forgot any of the more graphic incidents.

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Become numb to the reality of this sport?

People hurt and kill themselves due to bad judgement all the time.

The best you can do is enjoy your friends while they're with you, hope they don't kill or injure anyone else when they screw up, hope the ones who hurt themselves recover fully and quickly after which they take the hint to use better judgement in the future, hope others learn from the second hand experience, and try not to screw up the same way yourself.

Sometimes shit happens that isn't really anybody's fault.

[WhuffoNoMo 0]

Did 14 jumps this weekend trying to get my mind of some personal things (Only at 31 jumps mind you) and as I was walking in to lay my gear down a student (~20jumps) flared too high (looked at ground) and broke his left arm . His younger brother landed about a minute after he did. I hope everything turns out well and he doesn't lose his ambition for the sport. It was the first accident I've witnessed so it definitely brings me back to light on what I'm doing. I had to make another jump just to ease myself. I'm still surprised at how many people make their prayers on their way up to altitude yet don't think twice about driving an hour or two home in the rain! Off to review my SIM

[matthias 0]

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flared too high

I did this on AFF L1. The radio malfunctioned and I had to rely on what I remembered from the AFF course (a week prior) and my instincts from playing microsoft flight simulator growing up. There was too much wind so I thought to setup the final approach running alongside the runway (no obsticals). I was looking at the ground and flared 10-15 feet higher than I should have...then suddenly the radio worked again "NO NOT YET!!!!!!!!" My 'oh fuck' reaction had me dropping both toggles (was still in overload from the freefall Im guessing) the canopy stalled, dived and making a landing similar if I did a running jump from a garage roof on a grassy area. It if werent for the grass, I probably would broken something.

Needless to say it scared the shit out of me and my instructor "Matt raise your hand if you are concious, stand up if you are able to." I stood up...dazed... "He's fine."

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trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[Tyrion 0]

I had been in the sport for 4 months when I saw this fatality.

Disbelief at what I just saw was what I can remember, the person behind me yelling "f***" a split second before he hit the ground is probably the thing that sticks in my mind the most.... That and the distance his body bounced on impact.

I will never forget that moment, it felt like it wasn't real.

RIP Josh.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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A few weeks ago I watched a very close friend of mine hit the ground very hard, I had never witnessed this happening to anyone before. Luckily she was ok and some how walked away with out any broken bones. I know at these times we take a step back and remember the dangers of this sport and what one wrong split decision can cost and to then be more aware and give respect to what we do... However, the image and sound of that incident is burned in my mind. Standing there so helpless waiting to see her get up, hoping she will. I haven't jumped since the ordeal, not out of fear for myself so much as fear of seeing someone dear and close to me get hurt or even retired by the sport. Do you somehow forget? Become numb to the reality of this sport? I guess I always some what walked around in denial that I, or my friends would never get hurt. I don't want to stop jumping, but I want my friends to be there in the hangar with me after every skydive. I'm sure plenty of you have been there, how did you cope?

Sillygirl100,

First off, I'm glad your friend is okay. That's the most important part.

As for that helpless feeling, I understand that too. Unelss you're a trained medical professional (i.e. Doctor, Nurse, EMT, Paramedic or the like) there's not a lot you can do until the ambulance crew arrives and even if you are one of those types, there's only so much that can be done without equipment. MJOSparky is a retired fireman/paramedic/skydiver, maybe he'll see this thread and comment. I too have seen friends hurt, but its been "sobering" a "bummer", but something we'd be joking about before the day's out... on the other hand, I recently saw a friend of mine, a gal I care very much about, get caught in a Rotor short final and get tossed around pretty violently under canopy at around 500'... I was already on the ground and couldn't do a damn thing about it other then to watch and pray that she didn't do anything foolish (cut-away, low turn) and that the "odds" would work out that her canopy wouldn't collapse badly and she'd fall to her death; fortunately, it worked out that way for her, she flew out of it and landed okay (it wasn't a pretty landing, but she got up). She's been spooked and hasn't jumped since; it may sound bad in a way, but I'm kinda hoping she decides to hang it up, she wasn't the type to jump often anyways, way less then 100 jumps a year, sometimes less then a dozen. Anyway, I truely understand that helpless feeling, its the worst form of being scared.

As for the forgetting or getting numb to the realities of the sport. Well, skydivers can have a lot of bravado about such things, but underneath it all, if you find yourself really forgetting about it or getting numb to it, you should be worried. What you witnessed is the "Black Death" side of the sport. Fortunately, things have gotten "safer" within the sport for lots of reasons... notice though, I said "safer" and not "safe"... anyway... even so, the reality is when things go bad in skydiving, they can go really really bad really really quickly. I realize that to most, that's an understantement, but I'll counter with the fact that you also see a lot of folks new to the sport (0-5 years) that are, IMO, surprised when they see something go wrong, like its some sort of injustice, no, its not, its reality.

You say that your friend hit the ground very hard. You didn't elaborate what the circumstances were and it may not be important here... just for yourself... think about what happened and how your firend got into that situation. What "signs", if any, could there have been that you may be able to recognize now that you know to look out for them and avoid a similar situation in the future. That could be your take-away from this. Lots of folks have tried to say that in one way or another up-post I think.

How to cope? Well, in this case, realize that your friend is okay. However, if it had been worse... and if you stay in the sport long enough, you'll witness one (or more) worse... in my time in the sport, I've witnessed:

- 2 Fatalities
- 1 suicide
- 2 very serious injuries (1 - quadrapaligic as a result of a low-pull, line-strech, impact, 1 - tramatic amputation as a reslut of a premature deployment and tail strike as the peson got drug out the door)
- Several serious injuries (i.e. ambulance or helicopter evac because of serious broken bones, but the person hurt recovered fully)
- Countless minor injuries that resulted in a friend giving the person hurt a ride to the ER.
- And even more less then minor injuries treated with bandages and Tequila on the DZ.

... anyway... how to cope? Again it goes back to trying to take away from each what you can do (learn from it) that will help you "break the chain" of events that builds up around every incident. As for the fatalities, I know there was a lot of beer drinking involved that evening afterwards.

Again, glad your friend is okay. Try to get back on the horse soon. Good Luck.