AFF4 Issue - Spinning. Suggestions?

[chrismgtis 0]

I had a small issue yesterday morning on AFF Level 4. When the instructor let go, I went into a spin (imagine a yaw turn, while stable on other axis).

On AFF3 when I was released I didn't have any problems whatsoever. I floated there for what I think the instructors said was about 30 seconds (not really sure) and when the time came I pulled with no problem and maintained stability in the pull.

The instructor said one thing I needed to do was keep my head up and that I kept looking down. I think one attributing factor to that was there was some confusion in the jump (the exit was a little unstable in the first few seconds and then the spinning).

It wasn't a big problem. The spin wasn't too fast and I looked at my altimeter right at 6000' and pulled by 5000'. I will have to repeat AFF4 since I couldn't get out of the spin until pull time. No big deal though.

Thought I would see if anyone had some suggestions as to what may have caused the spin.

In the air I figured one of my legs or arms were higher/lower, so I tried to arch and relax like I was trained. That didn't seem to work so I tried moving one leg up or down. Only had about 4-5 seconds to really experiment.

As I said, I felt that I was really stable on all axis except for that one. It was a spin just like the intentional 90 and 180 degree turns that we practice on the ground (and are done in AFF3).

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[bigway 4]

Relax your body and point your toes.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Scoop 0]

I had this, what I did for ages was to keep lying on the floor in an arched position and looking to see if my legs were symetrical, some people try tapping their heels together in freefall too as a kind of referance. If you got money to burn and want to get it right go to the tunnel. I only have 10 mins to my name but it was a great setting to learn, especially during early stages of AFF, if really compliments your progressio, in my humble opinion

[chrismgtis 0]

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some people try tapping their heels together in freefall too as a kind of referance. If you got money to burn and want to get it right go to the tunnel.

The toe tap is one thing the instructor recommended and wrote on my log book to try on the next jump. I've actually been thinking about going to an outdoor tunnel in Appalachian one week. I just need to decide to go without a dive one week and go to the tunnel instead. I kind of hate to do that, but I'm sure it would help.

I'll see how it goes this Saturday and if I have the same problem, I think I'll make a trip to the tunnel.

I'll speak with one of the instructors at the DZ too that has been on all of my AFF dives except for this last one. Maybe he will have some additional insight into my problem having seen my progression through AFF.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[wmw999 2,130]

If you focus on looking the way you want to turn OVER your shoulder, you're halfway there. Because if you look under your shoulder, you're raising and dropping the wrong shoulders, and since bodies are naturally reciprocal, probably also the wrong legs.

If you look OVER your shoulder, that one goes down, and the opposite leg probably goes down, and you go around in the direction you're looking. Then you quit doing that, keeping head in the same height, to stop the turn.

If you think about letting the wind blow your head, legs and arms back, it'll be a whole lot easier to relax. Then you just push the appropriate limbs down to make your body do what it wants to.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Like Bigway said, relax.
If you are stiff, any imperfection you have in your body symmetry will make you want to spin like an air hockey puck. If you take a big breath and go almost limp while you exhale, the rotation will dampen out.
Have fun.

[sraja 0]

Hello Chris

I flunked my AFP level 4 four times before I decided to head to a tunnel and fix the problem. You can read about it http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2464553;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread here.

Mistakes I was making

1. My palms were below my face and hence catching the relative wind instead of my pelvis. Keep your arms and palms above your head
2. Unsymmetrical legs - clicking once solved this. Did a lot of arching on the floor 5 seconds at a time and asked my friends to check my body symmetry
3. When I began the spin - I used to get tense and twist my body instead of banking my torso. I stopped that by picking a reference point. I look at a road in the distance and try to keep in line with that. This is one time where object fixation is a good thing.
4. Tunnel time helped a lot - after flunking 4 times and losing a lot of money I decided to head over to Arizona for one night. Spent 25 mins in the tunnel with a tunnel coach and came back and cleared 6 levels in the first attempt.

Another 5 levels to go and I will have my graduation dive. Best of luck - if you need any more information on the tunnel, send me a PM.

[John4455 0]

Turn the other way

How do ya like it Johnny?

[chrismgtis 0]

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1. My palms were below my face and hence catching the relative wind instead of my pelvis. Keep your arms and palms above your head

I'm not really sure whether my arms/hands were above my head or not. I'll mention that to my instructor next time and let him/her take a look at my arch to see what he/she thinks.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Reginald 0]

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The toe tap is one thing the instructor recommended and wrote on my log book to try on the next jump.

What else did the one person who was in the air with you say to do?

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[bigmike21 0]

I had the same problem and it was my legs. But the main thing is to relax. Whenever I get nervous one leg curls in and I don't even feel it, hence, I start spinning. When I'm relaxed my body position is perfect and no spinning. The tunnel will help you work on form, but does little to help you relax in the air. What I did was simplify my jump so I did not have to worry about doing to much. I just focused on relaxing and keeping a heading mainly. Practice that relaxed body position on the ground and take in the air with you.

[Mike111 0]

if youdo a forum search there is already some stuff on this it think.

good luck mate.. be patient it will click

[JoeG 0]

Spot on (for me)...


Relax!!! and as others said toe taps help you realize whether your feet are level or not - also, turn (reach) in the OPPOSITE direction of your turn. I had a predilection to reach in the direction of my turn...

_________________________________________
"Knowledge is Power!"

[chrismgtis 0]

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if youdo a forum search there is already some stuff on this it think.

good luck mate.. be patient it will click

Yea I read those earlier :).

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[pilatus_p 0]

I kept getting told to relax. My problem was that I WAS relaxing (no buffeting) - but with my leg sticking out. If I'd arched any harder I would have been a falling paper clip - for me it was all about having wonky legs!

Still, gave my JM some good student catching practice ... Cheers Torben!!!!

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[chrismgtis 0]

A new instructor at the DZ helped me figure out what my problem was and made some suggestions. In freefall everything he told me helped out a lot.

I think one of the things might have been that my legs were not tense enough, so I might have been relaxing one or the other a little more than the other, just enough to cause a turn.

We worked on my arch and from what I can tell that seems to have been my problem. Either way I did a lot better and got cleared for the next level.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[flyangel2 2]

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Either way I did a lot better and got cleared for the next level.

And there you go. All it took was an instructor that could see and work face to face with you to fix the problem.

Nothing like the real thing to do that. Most times it's hard to give advise when a student is having issues via the Internet. Afterall; we can't see what's happening. Its like calling your doctor's office and asking him what you think is wrong with you and he can't see you.

Congrats on passing the level.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[chrismgtis 0]

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Most times it's hard to give advise when a student is having issues via the Internet. Afterall; we can't see what's happening. Its like calling your doctor's office and asking him what you think is wrong with you and he can't see you.

Still, it's good to get an opinion from others. I never take anything you guys say TOO seriously, afterall you could be wrong. It's ok to take the advice into consideration.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Pia 0]

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some people try tapping their heels together in freefall too as a kind of referance.

I was also spinning sometimes, my instrustor told me to do this, it helped me alot

**Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist**