Jumping off DZ in Canada - How to make it happen?

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey Guys,

I'm hoping someone will have this knowledge. I have a question about regulations in Canada, or maybe processes to follow in Canada.

I want to know what I would need to do to jump at a non DZ. I thought it would be really cool to surprise my parents by "dropping" in to see them. They live in a small town of 2600 people, no skyscrapers (obviously), lots of room to land. They own a small convenience store and have a spare lot beside them, plus a huge parking lot beside that. I'm not terribly concerned about the landing area, if all else fails, I could just do it at the cabin where there is no power lines etc...

My question to the masses is this. What is involved to plan an event like this LEGALLY? Is is possible to do legally? What type of permits, paperwork etc do I require (links if possible)? What must the pilot have for certs, what does the plane have to be qualified for. Basically I'm looking for any information to do this legally.

I know it can be done illegally, but I'm not up for that and don't want to risk the pilot's license either.

Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

In the USA the pilot in command of this flight needs to file a NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) with the FAA and obviously have it approved prior to conducting off DZ parachute operations. I would imagine it's not all that different with Transport Canada.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kingbunky 3]

i'm pretty sure you need a demo rating, along with ground crew and permits from nav canada, or maybe it's transport canada. not sure, but it isn't trivial.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[CSpenceFLY 1]

In the U.S. you only need the land owners permission provided it is not in a heavily populated area.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Two words...

"Bad Spot"

[174fps 1]

Check out the Canadian Aviation Regulations

I think you will find you need an EJR

Andrew

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Looks like this might take more time than I though...Damn.

Step 1....Get EJR!
Step 2....Get EJR first!

I'll be back.....


Thanks everyone

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[AndyMan 7]

In the US, you would be required to have at least a USPA 'C' license (200 jumps), or preferably a PRO Rating.

At my home DZ, you would probably not be allowed to do it without the PRO rating.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

That is incorrect.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

In the U.S. you only need the land owners permission provided it is not in a heavily populated area.

I don't dispute getting permission from the land owner (I don't know either way), but you do absolutely need to file a NOTAM as well. You can't have bodies falling through the skies without warning the other pilots that may be in the area at the specified time you'd be jumping.

see FAR 18-4-1. NONEMERGENCY PARACHUTE JUMP OPERATIONS

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[pchapman 262]

Quote

to know what I would need to do to jump at a non DZ. I thought it would be really cool to surprise my parents by "dropping" in to see them. They live in a small town of 2600 people,

I haven't dealt with this recently so it I can't guarantee every detail is right.

The main obstacle is the location, which falls under the "built up area or open air assembly of persons" rule. Such locations require a Special Flight Operations Certificate. (See Canadian Air Regs part 623) That means having a Canadian EJR or the US PRO rating. In additions to the landowner's permission, one would need that of the municipality. Plus there are other basic rules on ground crew, equipment, winds, landing area diagrams etc. All the paperwork gets faxed in to TC 2 weeks ahead of the jump for approval.

If you can find someone with a farmhouse and field away from the town, then one can do without the SFOC. There can still be the problem that if two people stand outside and look up at you, that could constitute an "open air assembly of persons", depending on Transport Canada's mood. On the other hand, the rules state "into or over" such an assembly -- so as long as one can jump & land off to the side of any crowd, one may be OK. That issue is unclear to me.

An SFOC would normally also be needed for jumps through airways, which tend to be everywhere anywhere remotely close to population centres. But there's a blanket exemption in place (from CAR 602.23 and 603.37). Then one doesn't have the EJR rules etc., but only needs simple things like the land owner's permission and radio contact with ATC that varies in detail with the exact class of airspace.

Even where there are airways, unless there's a big airport nearby, below 2200' AGL there's typically uncontrolled airspace, and no airways or radio rules to deal with.

So out in the countryside, one could just do a low jump in to a friend's place without talking to any authorities at all.

Any pilot could drop you, but if there's any compensation for the pilot in any form, one needs a commercial pilot. Typically one would rent the plane & pilot from a local DZ anyway.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Any pilot could drop you, but if there's any compensation for the pilot in any form, one needs a commercial pilot. Typically one would rent the plane & pilot from a local DZ anyway.

We might be saying the same thing (and I know little about Canadian air regs that differ from the FAA's). But if I was down south and was current. I could rent an airplane and he could pay me 1/2 rental fee and as long as there is an approved landing area and I filed an approved NOTAM with the FAA, he could drop and he doesn't need the USPA's demo rating.

Now I'm not saying I would do that. I just don't need to be commecially rated. Of course the regs don't actually address the scenario of the FBO asking me where my passenger is after I've landed. The FBO likely would have a policy against such devilry.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[everymansaved 0]

I was under the impression that you only needed an EJR if you were in controlled airspace. As long as it's a small enough town that you're not, it doesn't matter. Talk to someone with an EJR, they'll know better.

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[packerboy 3]

Ask around your dropzone, I'm sure you will find someone around THAT dropzone that may or may not have done it some point in time. Of course, I'm sure your dropzone is closed by now... they do the odd winter jump don't they?

You may or may not even get to hear about some crazy malfunctions while jumping into a cottage... who knows.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

That is incorrect.

That is not helpful.

To me, jumping into a city, landing in a parking lot downtown infront of a crowd - I have trouble imagining that not being at least a "Level 1" demo.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[riggerrob 558]

How far is your parents' place from a regular DZ?
If they are only a mile or two away, you might be able to claim a "bad spot."

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Well, I don't think the "Bad spot" would work so well. I'm not sure if you guys really understoon what I meant by "remote".

The nearest DZ is about a 1.5 to 2 hour flight via a 737 (Air Canada or Westjet).

Bad spot may be hard to pull off. I'd surprised if TC knows about the airport outside the town...really.

The town is a hub to support all the northern communities in Ontario that you can't drive to. So Cessna Caravan's, Otters, Beavers are all common place. Many Helicopters too for the fire season. Jet Rangers, Huey's, griffons, Bell 212's etc... Waterbombers and Cessna 337's as well. It's a jumpers dream town. I know for a fact, I could do it at my parents camp and never be seen by anyone. In the town, it would be the biggest thing that happened since....EVER.

Illegally, not an issue, but I don't want to go that way and risk everything.

Thanks

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[packerboy 3]

What is the town? And what are you risking.. pilot issues aside. What are the consequences for someone caught jumping if you are not trespassing?

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey Trevor,

I'm not sure if I met you when I was in gan, but I likely saw you if you were there on the long weekend in Aug-Sept. Anyways, the town is in Northern Ontario, it's called Geraldton, about 3 hours north east of Thunder Bay. As for the consequences, probably nothing, even if the cops watched me come in, I think they would be amazed. I would be shocked if anyone actually knew what was happening. Odds are, maybe 20 people would see it and would be so excited that none would think there was any danger at all.

Maybe I'll get a base rig and just get out at 1000 feet or something, minimal exposure. hahah.

I honestly think it would be such a small deal it wouldn't be a concern, but I don't want to risk anything. I guarantee people would want me to do it again and again until I was blue in the face, but.....I want to do it right.

Out at my parent's camp, I highly doubt that anyone would see me at all. I don't know, maybe I'll just get my EJR as soon as I can and do it right.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[jimp 1]

Some of my fondest skydiving memories are of jumps in remote locations: Yukon, Nortwest Territories, southeast Alaska and northern British Columbia. A few were "official", but the majority were impromptu and solo, out of aircraft as varied as a Super Cub on floats, or Sikorski S61.

For this kind of jumping you need a big accuracy canopy, and lots and lots of classic accuracy practice. Don't even dream about swooping in under the power lines into the parking lot!

The best were the ones in the wilderness where there was nobody at all watching!