Mendez 0 #1 August 16, 2004 Had an Incident this weekend... Regular jump my 65th. Never had an issue, I'm usually very cautious! As I was tracking away I wave off at about 4000 and attempt to pitch...No Dice! To my surprise I couldn't reach my Hacky! As I Pushed to reach, my head went down and off I go tumbling in every direction imaginable. I fucked up huge because it was more than 2 attempts yet I incisted. The Only Thoughts running through my head was " This Is Bad" I kept my cool but felt myself getting a little desprate. I finnally pulled but who knows what position I was in....To add salt to the wound I got some major line twists. I was able to stop the twists and kick them out alright. I landed safely But could not understand why this all of a sudden happened. I never had problems reaching before. Re-Packed and hopped on the next load..Same Mother-fucking thing happened. This Time I attempted practice pulls...When it was time to pitch...No Hacky! FUCK!!! A Tumbling I Go...I was in back fly when I finally reached and it was a very hard opening. I packed it up and called it quits for the day. I seriously can't figure out why this is happening. Help....Please... Mendez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #2 August 16, 2004 Couldn't reach it as in you could not reach the whole BOC area, or the hacky was pushed inside the BOC pouch? Is the MLW adjustable? It might have been let out, and is too long for you once you get in the air, and every thing shifts. If it was pushed inside, maybe the pouch is worn out and when you sit and wiggle in the aircraft you shove it in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mendez 0 #3 August 16, 2004 Thanks For The reply! Was not pushed in man...Its a pretty brand New Rig (Mirage G4) Custom Fit. Mendez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #4 August 16, 2004 Ok so when you did your practice pulls, your hackey was there, but not when you went to actually pull?? Is this your gear or rental gear? Is the harness too big? If it does actually fit well.. I'd get on a creeper and practice body position. Body position could have been the reason you couldnt find it. If you tense up and flatten out instead of relax and arch when you go to pull. Just some ideas.. I can see why you're confused and frustrated. Dont give up.. work it out.. and until then, dont be shy to pull silver if you cant get your main out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mendez 0 #5 August 16, 2004 Thanks CK! See during the practice pulls I felt my hacky but not as comfortable or confident as any other time. I agree it may have been my Body Positioning...So I did just that. I geared up and hopped on a creeper and again it wasn't feeling right..I tried and tried and arched as much as I could...Still not confident. Thats when I decided to slow down and fuck off for the day. I got pretty shook up and really discouraged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 August 16, 2004 Grab an instructor and go over your body pos on the ground. It sounds like your focusing too much on arching/grabbing the hacky and end up going un stable when it really matters. You don't have to bend double in the middle when you arch. You should relax when you go to pull. If you can get it sorted so you're confident you'll be able to find you handle in freefall go out and jump holding your deployment position all the way down the tube. Have your right hand on your hacky and your left arm over your head and just stay like that the whole dive. Make sure you stay stable and just concentrate on not moving in any plane. If you can do that you'll probably never have another problem with pull time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mendez 0 #7 August 16, 2004 Very Cool! Thanks Man...Will Do. Mendez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #8 August 16, 2004 I am not an instructor, but I have had experience in what you are talking about, and in similar situations. It seems to me that you "Attacked" the hackey. I found that if I rushed for it I miss it, probbaly the case for your second jump especially since you had the problem on your other jump. I agree with the other posters, let someone have a look at the rig, and make sure it fits do creaper work, and do a hold jump. You have to create that muscle memory, once you have it down it doesn't matter where it is if you can physically get to it you will. Like when I was in the police academy when we first started to draw and holster they would not let us look down at our side to look at the weapon or holster. It was funny to see people trying to put it in their belt and their pants pocket, but once we got the muscle memory down pat you can draw like lightning, and holster without looking. It's all about muscle memory, technique, and the CONFIDENCE that you will get it and save your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #9 August 16, 2004 How is your fit in the container, is it a rent one? maybe you're diving when you reach your hacky this will make your container move foward slide towards yor neck making difficult to find the BOC, make sure you have a good arch on deploymenthttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mendez 0 #10 August 16, 2004 Good Point Beto, I was in a track/dive prior to deployment. It's not rental, Its my rig and although it is articulated there is plenty of slide in it. In other words If I bend down to get a pin-check, That baby will ride/slide all the way up my back a large amount. I still don't understand why this is happening now??? I've been in track/dives many times prior to deployment. Thanks for the input Carnal Mendez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingangel 0 #11 August 16, 2004 Hey Jeff, Knowing you and your rig quite well, I can't imagine why this is happening now. I wish you would have said something this weekend and we could have figured something out for you. The only thing I can suggest is to go out on your next jump and spend the dive focussing on your body position while checking for your hackey. If it happens again, it might be worthwhile to have video, to see your body position and what's going on with your rig. Please don't get discouraged. Next time they let me out of manifest, I'll go up for some fun with you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crutch 0 #12 August 17, 2004 Now this is just what I have heard from a couple of people with G4's and articulating harnesses. The BOC is not in the same place as it has been on other rigs they have jumped. On the ground it seems okay to reach, but in the air it gets difficult. At first I thought this was just one person complaining, but I have heard now from four people with new G4's. We have had them on creepers practicing on the ground and although they say it is different, it is not difficult. In the air, it seems to them a little more difficult. Maybe, you maybe readjusting your harness in the plane (it feels loose, so you tighten it up slightly?), I don't know. Have an experienced person jump with you, maybe even a cameraman, and watch you to see what is happening, but don't give up on it!blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #13 August 17, 2004 QuoteGrab an instructor and go over your body pos on the ground. It sounds like your focusing too much on arching/grabbing the hacky and end up going un stable when it really matters. This is the best advise you are going to get on how to deal with this. Anything else will be ether wrong or wrong and dangerous. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites juanesky 0 #14 August 17, 2004 Why would you want to exceed 2 tries? Be aware that the correct procedure would be silver if you have tried twice......IMHO. Go over procedures/malfunctions if you decide to seek instruction."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DBCOOPER 5 #15 August 17, 2004 I've seen it with new Javelins also.In my experience it was negative habit transfer when going from a standard rig to a fully articulated one.If you bend at the waist with a fully articulated harness the bottom of the container will move.My GF was having this exact problem with her first jumps on a new Odyssey during the holiday boogie in AZ.Fortunately there was a Sunpath rep there and he was going thru the body position issues with someone else having the exact same problem.In our case instead of placing the left hand over the head at pull time it was suggested that the left hand push down in front of the face.This corrected a couple hundred jumps of muscle memory of basically bad body position(twisting to the right at the waist) and resolved the problem for us.Your results may vary.As always discuss it with your instructors at your dz.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mendez 0 #16 September 8, 2004 QuoteHad an Incident this weekend... Regular jump my 65th. Never had an issue, I'm usually very cautious! As I was tracking away I wave off at about 4000 and attempt to pitch...No Dice! To my surprise I couldn't reach my Hacky! As I Pushed to reach, my head went down and off I go tumbling in every direction imaginable. I fucked up huge because it was more than 2 attempts yet I incisted. The Only Thoughts running through my head was " This Is Bad" I kept my cool but felt myself getting a little desprate. I finnally pulled but who knows what position I was in....To add salt to the wound I got some major line twists. I was able to stop the twists and kick them out alright. I landed safely But could not understand why this all of a sudden happened. I never had problems reaching before. Re-Packed and hopped on the next load..Same Mother-fucking thing happened. This Time I attempted practice pulls...When it was time to pitch...No Hacky! FUCK!!! A Tumbling I Go...I was in back fly when I finally reached and it was a very hard opening. I packed it up and called it quits for the day. I seriously can't figure out why this is happening. Help....Please... Mendez Well I figured it out...After talking to instructors and hittin' the creepers we all thought it was a combination of the articulated rig vs body positioning. But it was a lot simpler. I have been wearing my chest strap a littlle snugger than usual and I clearly remember doing up my chest strap a little tighter than normal the weekend the reach problems occured. I put on my rig and wore my chest strap tighter than usual. Standing up = No Problem. Once I lied on my bed and arched = No Reach. Did the same thing and loosened the chest strap = Lots Of Reach. So still a little shooken-up I felt confident I figured it out. Got on a King Air for the first time (Quite the Exit Experience vs. a cessna) 14,000 ft, 75sec freefall...Got stable and did 4 practice pulls then held my deployment position the rest of the way down for muscle memory (One hand on Hacky other hand over head) and easily reached. Great pull, Great jump. Thanks for your tips and suggestions. It's always great to learn and increase safety and confidence. Mendez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fatflying 0 #17 September 9, 2004 "Got on the king air for the first time" Gotcha!!! you owe beer. It's great you found the problem, I was checking my altimeter just reading the post. I always say "fly the freaky skies", can you say float like a feather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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crutch 0 #12 August 17, 2004 Now this is just what I have heard from a couple of people with G4's and articulating harnesses. The BOC is not in the same place as it has been on other rigs they have jumped. On the ground it seems okay to reach, but in the air it gets difficult. At first I thought this was just one person complaining, but I have heard now from four people with new G4's. We have had them on creepers practicing on the ground and although they say it is different, it is not difficult. In the air, it seems to them a little more difficult. Maybe, you maybe readjusting your harness in the plane (it feels loose, so you tighten it up slightly?), I don't know. Have an experienced person jump with you, maybe even a cameraman, and watch you to see what is happening, but don't give up on it!blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #13 August 17, 2004 QuoteGrab an instructor and go over your body pos on the ground. It sounds like your focusing too much on arching/grabbing the hacky and end up going un stable when it really matters. This is the best advise you are going to get on how to deal with this. Anything else will be ether wrong or wrong and dangerous. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #14 August 17, 2004 Why would you want to exceed 2 tries? Be aware that the correct procedure would be silver if you have tried twice......IMHO. Go over procedures/malfunctions if you decide to seek instruction."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #15 August 17, 2004 I've seen it with new Javelins also.In my experience it was negative habit transfer when going from a standard rig to a fully articulated one.If you bend at the waist with a fully articulated harness the bottom of the container will move.My GF was having this exact problem with her first jumps on a new Odyssey during the holiday boogie in AZ.Fortunately there was a Sunpath rep there and he was going thru the body position issues with someone else having the exact same problem.In our case instead of placing the left hand over the head at pull time it was suggested that the left hand push down in front of the face.This corrected a couple hundred jumps of muscle memory of basically bad body position(twisting to the right at the waist) and resolved the problem for us.Your results may vary.As always discuss it with your instructors at your dz.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mendez 0 #16 September 8, 2004 QuoteHad an Incident this weekend... Regular jump my 65th. Never had an issue, I'm usually very cautious! As I was tracking away I wave off at about 4000 and attempt to pitch...No Dice! To my surprise I couldn't reach my Hacky! As I Pushed to reach, my head went down and off I go tumbling in every direction imaginable. I fucked up huge because it was more than 2 attempts yet I incisted. The Only Thoughts running through my head was " This Is Bad" I kept my cool but felt myself getting a little desprate. I finnally pulled but who knows what position I was in....To add salt to the wound I got some major line twists. I was able to stop the twists and kick them out alright. I landed safely But could not understand why this all of a sudden happened. I never had problems reaching before. Re-Packed and hopped on the next load..Same Mother-fucking thing happened. This Time I attempted practice pulls...When it was time to pitch...No Hacky! FUCK!!! A Tumbling I Go...I was in back fly when I finally reached and it was a very hard opening. I packed it up and called it quits for the day. I seriously can't figure out why this is happening. Help....Please... Mendez Well I figured it out...After talking to instructors and hittin' the creepers we all thought it was a combination of the articulated rig vs body positioning. But it was a lot simpler. I have been wearing my chest strap a littlle snugger than usual and I clearly remember doing up my chest strap a little tighter than normal the weekend the reach problems occured. I put on my rig and wore my chest strap tighter than usual. Standing up = No Problem. Once I lied on my bed and arched = No Reach. Did the same thing and loosened the chest strap = Lots Of Reach. So still a little shooken-up I felt confident I figured it out. Got on a King Air for the first time (Quite the Exit Experience vs. a cessna) 14,000 ft, 75sec freefall...Got stable and did 4 practice pulls then held my deployment position the rest of the way down for muscle memory (One hand on Hacky other hand over head) and easily reached. Great pull, Great jump. Thanks for your tips and suggestions. It's always great to learn and increase safety and confidence. Mendez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatflying 0 #17 September 9, 2004 "Got on the king air for the first time" Gotcha!!! you owe beer. It's great you found the problem, I was checking my altimeter just reading the post. I always say "fly the freaky skies", can you say float like a feather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites